Anonymous

they could have boost limited it at low rpm and ended up with not much over 1000lbft easily enough.

would have been far better as a marketing ploy

"diesel vw blows away mclaren F1" etc

GOT2BZETEC

I heard 350 was wht was going to be made, anybody seen the hennessy or what ever viper? 255mph, Would stil have veyron

Rich_w

If by that you mean "Has Deposits for the 50 for the 1st year" they you're right.

The great thing about F1 is it gives you 2 hours every other Sunday afternoon. Plus you get to put pics of the cars up in the showroom and for companies like Merc and BMW they can drawa credible link between the race cars and the road cars. However people will soon forget Veyron. In so much as because people won't be thinking about it for 40 hours spread over a year to 1/3 of the worlds population. Only occasionally.

And secondly No VW/Audi/Skoda/Seat/Lamborghini/Bentley dealer will have a pic of the Veyron up. So only people who go to the 1 Bugatti dealer in the UK (Jack Barclay via HR Owen) will see promo stuff for it. So the VAG link is there, but not really being exploited. Apart from maybe on DSG gearbox which salesmen will tell you is "Exactly the same on the GTI as the 1000bhp Veyron" Which would be unusual as Audi customers aren't reminded of Lambo or Bentley when they buy a car.

UBster

I think everyone is missing the point on how much companys spend on ADVERTISING , I work for a small midlands company and our very very very small marketing budget for this year is four million pounds.

Now how much ŁŁŁŁŁ worth of advertising has bugatti/vw got out of this car?? even things like this thread but all the tv/newspaper/radio coverage throught the WORLD. I couldnt even think of how much it would have cost......

I'll think we'll find a lot of bugatti cars coming out in the next few years around the Ł100,000 capitalising on all this media etc

100% successful project in my eyes

Matthew

Rich_w

Name the company. I can't believe many small businesses spend anywhere near that a year. Maybe Norwich Union do or Natwest, but a "very very very small marketting budget" is no Ł4M

UBster

and when I name the company your suddenly going to turn into a believer?

8 x 30 seconds adverts on itv in a small region split 3 prime time, 3 day time and 2 anytime is Ł40,000. Its quite easy to spend a lot but it is ALL relative to how much the things your selling cost and what your markup is, eg spanish property starting at Ł150,000 not slippers in multi colours....

Matt

MWF

The key things to consider are

1. The brand value of Buggatti
2. The R&D investment

I know those areas have been covered but I think those are the two crucial factors. Buggatti are now in the position to take what they have learnt and apply to a far more competative car. They can apply it to anything in the supercar market and develop it very cheaply. If they want to build a 80K 350bhp car now they can do it, likewise if they see a market for a 500bhp car they can tap into it. It's unlikely they'll ever need to develop technology further than they have now for a long time.

Add this to their brand value, the builders of the fastest car you can buy, and you can clearly see just how powerful the company is.

I predict that in the next 5 years we will see a Bugatti in nearly every supercar sector there is, undercutting each one and offering more.

It's Czech Mate

Just proves how little you know about business lol I'll bet if you look at Natwest accounts the Marketing spend is closer to Ł400million than Ł4 million

MWF

Natwest aren't a small business dude.

UBster

wahey someone on the same planet

&

Can't wait to see that either its great for competition, business and will push other companys to strive even further with there cars.

Matt

Rich_w

Think things got confused here.

UBster said his "small" company spent Ł4M a year on advertising.

I suggested that Natwest proboably spend Millions on advertising but "very very very small" ones don't. I WAS wrong about the amounts though.

I'd like to know the name of the company UBster works for, simply to see how small they are. What they do that requires Ł4M a year on advertising?

The company I currently work for and most of the ones before that simply didnt have the need to spend even Ł1/2M on advertising and they all had turnovers around the Ł10M pa

(Well one had a turnover of approx Ł300M but thats an exception and they were a major well known company )

Ferrari, Porsche and McLaren do that anyway. Lambo are getting there as well. None of the big players require a small company like Bugatti (which is only really Bugatti in terms of name nowadays sadly) to help push technology foward.

UBster

SMALL company like bugatti? they just spent Ł5 million making a car!!!!

LOL

Corking stuff this, tis why I've posted 150 times in 18 months!

Matt

MWF

I think Rich means 'small' as in their market share within the sector.

Am I the only person who can understand Rich

MWF

As far as I know non of those companies are pushing technology as far as Bugatti Rich. But then they don't need to, their appeal is totally different.

Rich_w

Bugatti/VAG haven't really pushed technology forward with this car. Its all straight foward engineering principles. Theres not "the one" thing on the car that has never been seen before. Apart from the collosal power figure.

But as you say.Enzo/Carrera GT/ McL F1 buyers are probably not going to buy a Veyron.

Well there is Richard PON (Nathan?) as well So 2 out of 30K users aint too bad

MWF

Well I'll have to dissagree with you there Rich. A good friend of mine is in the supercar designing business and talked regulary with a friend of his involved with the Veyron. The design problems they were overcoming were quite problematic, so hard to overcome nobody could say the car would even go into production. Even the tyres required development not been advanced before.

It's Czech Mate

Aerodynamically it's well into new territory. It doesnt fly at 250 mph for a start

Just the power....fucking lol. As if ANY other car has offered all day driveability and reliability with 1000bhp. That is some drivetrain and powerplant, which no-one has seen the like of before.

89xr2

Apparently the mclaren is twitchy as fook at top speed but the veyron just sits there solid as you like. If the mclaren's aerodynamics etc were that much better surely it would handle better at top speed?

Rich_w

Tyres are a funny area as they are always evolving. Now theres Veyron Michelin (or whoever) have the tech for the required Tyres , and as more cars come out with inflated speed figures. Then the demand will be met. The F1 did its 240mph run on Goodyear F1's (appropriately ) And Goodyear obviously said they would be fine up to and beyond the estimated VMax.

What I meant was that various parts were just "uprated" versions. Its not trialed anything new. Just uprated existing components.

Take the Audi Quattro, that was the FIRST road car (not SUV type) to have 4wd. So that was innovative. McLaren F1 was the first All carbon bodyshell. Mazda were the first people to use Rotary engines in a road car. Audi's TT was the first car to have DSG,

Thats the innovation that makes people go "Wow"

Ricardo did a very good job with the Veyrons DSG system, uprating it to the required levels and keeping it to the required size, but its not new technology to road cars.


As I said before, it needs that wing to stay stable at SLOW speeds, then retracts it at high speeds. Hardly sounds like a great aero package. MF1 has no aero aids bolted on. It doesnt need them

Plus you're missing my point (again) about what constitutes NEW technology.


http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...6039&q=McLaren

Looks so all over the shop doesnt it. (Speeds are KM/H)

MWF

I dunno Rich, just because the Veyron may not have what you would define as Earth shattering new developments I don't see how that makes how far they've pushed existing technology and less respectable.

I'm not professing to know everything about the cars development or infact that my friend knows everything about it. It just seems that a car that gets the entire office of a supercar manufacturers development has to be doing something quite striking.

The tyre problem I heard about wasn't speed related. It was a problem with tyres loosing grip to the wheel during accleration.

MWF

Argh hit quote instead of edit AGAIN

Rich_w

Its not that part thats the issue really to me. Its the pundits who claim this is the best/most innovative car ever made. Which it isn't. I respect what they've done. Its the fastest car ever made (apparently - We'll have to wait until the VAG guys actually give it to somebody independent to verify) But its not the greatest. It has too many compromises and relies on too much older technology to make it the greatest. IMO

I think you're right, ISTR it was spinning the wheels inside when trying to lay down the power. I bet those tyres are a nightmare to fit as a result though

MWF

I certainly agree with your thinking there Rich.

89xr2

Hard to tell how twitchy it is when it's not you driving. Especially when you cant even make out the edges of the road as the video res is so poor.

I was just saying what someone else had said about the mclaren and the veyron. Can't remember exactly where i read it.

I'm no supercar expert anyway. Like I said before i'd call the veyron a muscle car personally. And no matter how you look at it a 0-200 time of less than the mclarens 120-200 time means the veyron has to be doing something right.

Rich_w

Its not Nardo, its VW's 8 mile (IIRC) straight test track. Its 3 lanes wide. Try to reduce the window size as it will help. The comment about Twitchy invariably comes from Clarkson, but he found the Carrera twitchy too.

What you need in a Supercar/Racer is a little unstableness. Sounds odd, so let me briefly explain. If you had a car thats super stable in a straight line, (eg Veyron) as soon as you want to change direction, its resistant to it. It tries to lumber on in a straight line. So you don't get the cornering that you want. So you build in a little "skittishness" (F1) so that it changes direction quickly, as its time in the corners where your lap time will suffer. Its this "design for corner" mentality that Formula 1 and MotoGP adhere to, because its better for a performance car.

The slightly less stable (remember theres a balance to be achieved) car will be better round the corners and normally (not always) will be lighter, which is enormously beneficial to changes of direction, as it induces less roll, meaning the car stays flatter and can accelerate easier.

However, I would agree with you that Veyron isn't really a Supercar, its more in the mould of a GT. It has got thick carpets and an auto box. Such a shame theres no boot space on the damn thing Which really is a bit of an oversight in a car thats so large.

It's Czech Mate

You dont half talk some shit mate sometimes. Audi my ass

And there was plenty earlier than that.


http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery?...xt=Jensen%20FF

James

i think the audi was the first grpb car to use 4x4?

re: bugatti, ok it might not be the greatest car ever but as has been said, what a marketing tool! & as someone else said in a few years time when they bring out tamer cars people will remember the brand and remember the veryon and be interested. other than the veryon i don't know what cars bugatti have ever produced?

re: wheels spinning in the tyres, hmmmm didn't the S1 ERST track racers from the eraly 80's also have this problem? - i know comparing old technology with new is a pointless battle but still.

re: bugatti mechanic on call - what a cool job that must be!

Rich_w

I appear to have got a bit confused. I meant Rally car.


Anyway. Heres a video of a Veyron going flat out around the Nurburgring. Notice how the Aston prototypre passes it.

http://media.putfile.com/Bugatti_Veyron_Ring

89xr2

Doesn't look like he's going flat out to me. Most of the time it just looks like he's cruising round. He sticks his foot down a couple of times. As for the aston prototype passing it he clearly pulls over for it and lets him past then sticks his foot down to catch it and he catches it pretty quickly... considering the aston passed him at a decent speed.

MWF

LOL @ At the determined little AMV8.

Rich_w

Nah, thats pretty much flat out for a Veyron. 2.1 Tonnes of car remember. Heres a pic of the prototype version. I think it looked much better like this



Like the man says "Would a beautiful girl want a fat business broker or a Footballer?"

89xr2

lol, i've seen videos of 2.0xe novas going through the bends at the ring faster than that. There's only a couple of corners on that video when he appears to actually cornering hardish.

Seriously though. Watch how fast it catches the aston which had a BIG lead.. there you can see how quick it accelerates. And it still isnt even giving it some then. Listen to the revs