RichardPON

Take any of today's modern WRC cars - what sort of boost and what size (ish) turbo are they running?

Peak and hold? Anti-lag any more?

DaveEscos

upwards of 30 psi then the restrictor brings it down to single figures I would imagine at higher revs.



mmmm, torque anyone!

Daviet

doesnt say what boost the focus wrcruns .but t say a 9:1 comp ration and a tr30r turbo.
doubt thats of any help

rZVCh46Nv

don't rally cars also run on about 1/3 throttle normally anyways - even when idling in order to ensure they avoid as much lag as possible? that's what i've been told is the main reason for the flames through the exhaust system

Homer.

Thats something i have wondered before why do they have so much torque? is it down to boost not coming in till much higher in the rpm range?

DaveEscos

its because they run a massive spike of boost, then drop to single figures..... Massive torque... mediocre horsepower

Homer.

cheers mate thought it might somthing along those lines

ian sibbert

Generally IHI....about 30 - 40 psi of boost...and they run more than 9:1 C/R....focus etc more like 12:1


Our new engine is running 11:1

Anonymous

Yep big boost = big torque, but the restrictor means it can be maintained up the rev range so doesnt result in big power.

ian sibbert

The agruement rages on BHP vs Torque...

Both types of engine are built for 2 different purposes....I know which one i'd have on a slow up-hill hairpin in the middle of Wales in November....

WRC engines are fantastic low down and dont forget we are only aiming to go to a max of approx 120 mph...the box ratio's and low final drive also make a huge difference to how the cars drive...

Anonymous

Sibster.

If WRC cars were allowed to remove the restrictor and run massive power they would do so and would be quicker on every stage for it.

Toyota proved that, lol

ian sibbert

Chip,

i'd defo run unrestricted....we'd have half a chance against a metro

I'm in agreement...and I can see y the FIA impose the restictor the point i'm making is that we would spec the engines differently if we had no restrictor...

The trouble is it aint a level playing field and metro etc can run unresticted n/a with 450 bhp and clean up in most cases....

DaveEscos

Ian, who maps your new engines?

markk

iTrader: (2)

strange quote that one of course we would



you would ian, i still would'nt



+ 300 bhp - is this not still big power ?

even if we could remove the restrictor we would still be running healthy compression ratio's thats for certain and the big boost

SteveH

Dont the heads also have smaller ports which keeps the gas speed up and therefore the torque? I read that in PF about A1 Rallysports WRC escort.

Charlie Chalk

iTrader: (1)

Whats the average Spec of a rally car

Any links/info?

Are they just balls out engines,But restricted?

Kev.H

cool thread

markk

iTrader: (2)

about 20 grand

no the whole engine is built round its purpose in life, to provide the maximum effort it can as early as it can. there are many ways in which we combat this, some work together well some dont but it has to be optimised. the whole thing about a rally engine is that is is a high power road unit really, a manufacturer will try to optimise drivability throughout the rev range, this is what we do, we want to produce as much torque across as big a range as possible.

Charlie Chalk

iTrader: (1)

Cheers Mark, thats helps

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

The world engines (longer rods, short compression height pistons and IHI turbos) run a MAX of 325bhp and rev to 7200rpm with Ł20 a litre "ROCKET" fuel. On normal super (apart from going bang ), they would make no more than 290ish bhp....

James-W

I think Steve scotts car peaks at 2.9 bar and is 9:6:1 comp. I may be wrong.

markk

iTrader: (2)

as was - not as is


oh the delights of new developments

you are always very quick mike to (whats seams ) 'rubbish' the quality/performance of rally engines is it just me or do i see this quite alot from you ?

just a noticed point.

not impossible pal

ian sibbert

I dont you just love it !!!

Slight exaggeration on the fuel cost though Mike !!!

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Sorry, I meant a gallon .

Of course I am referring to the Cosworth "world" engines (as I have no experience of the Focus items etc).

I love the technological bits on them (Mountune inlet plenum, EGR, engine management, transmissions etc ), but I must confess that on a big open circuit the restrictors seem to leave them "breathless" at the top end.

Obviously in their natural environment in the Forest, they are stupidly mental, but I'm not a good enough driver to appreciate that (I can't left foot brake for shit ), and prefer the relative safety of any open circuit. Horses for courses .

Mind you, my car has fuck-all go below 3,000 revs .

ian sibbert

I think you need a ride round a single venue Mike....then a trip through Grizedale....you'd never look at the Ring in the same light again.... lol

You are of course quite right i'd never dream of taking a restricted WRC car round a track.....

GARETH T

well i thought it was funny

Anonymous

well im glad someone did

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Not many people follow rallying closely enough to know about the cheating bastards that were Toyota . One of the most clever "cheats" ever thought of, and although all the other teams "knew" they were doing something to get 25-30bhp more than everyone else, they didn't know what... .

Doug once posted a good link that detailed the cheat and how it was discovered . PM him and point him to this thread, as it is a good read .

Anonymous

Mike, im well familiar with how they did it, you only need to put "toyota rally cheat" into google probably to find the stories, lol

I remember the governing boy describing it as the most ingenius thing they had ever seen in one report i read, lol

markk

iTrader: (2)

AHMEN TO THAT



and the toyota 'mod' was rumored to give nearer 50horse according to some of the more 'knowledgable' people

Azrael

Even Citroen thought it stupid so on recent press event Francois Duval was taking people for ride in rallycross Xsara with ~650bhp

Azrael

Well I think the whole thead started about MODERN WRC cars. Escort WRC is everything but it isn't modern.


Im still wondering what will be the impact of new regulations on engine performance.

GARETH T

i cant remember what the mod was

ive looked on google and all i find it cheats for video games

Azrael

Unfortunatelly I don't know what boost works WRC's are running. Turbo isas somebody said something called TR-30R usually. I think there is nice descirbtion of WRC engine on M-sport of Cosworth racing site.


I know that top Grp. N cars running today do not run massive boost and still they have incredible torque. On top spec Lancer Evo VIII MR Grp. N maksimum setting avalible was I think 1.7bar.

Azrael

Nothing strange you cannot beat Grp B car in Grp A/N car. I don't know what rules are in British rallying but I suppose you're not in the same class, are you?

Azrael

Mike it's not that hard

Rich_w

You're not having a good day are you

http://homepage.virgin.net/shalco.com/tte_ban.htm

Basically there was a small air bypass valve, that was closed when you looked in the Turbo, but open when it was in use. What surprised me is that the TTE Celicas were massively faster on one event than the previous event, and no one spotted it.

markk

iTrader: (2)

yes - exactly the same class for 99% of the rallies - even my car as a 2wd competes ( well enters ) in the same class as all the 4wd/group A/N/ WRC

good job ive got a sense of humor and i enjoy what i do

GARETH T

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

"As much as 50bhp" is not the same as 50bhp .