andyescos

I recieved yet another letter today, which starts with "I acknowledge reciept " (ref the PACE I sent again, but this time recorded)

It also said

"The form in question legally required you to supply the details of the driver within a specified period, and it laso carried a warning that by not completing the form you may be committing an offence.

Accordingly, proceedingswill commence against you for an offence contrary to Section 172 Road Traffic Act 1988 failing to notify the police of the driver at the time of the offence"


AAAAAAAAAH! I have done!, in a Pace statement, and if as allready mentioned I don't legally have to fill out the NIP, then what can they do when , as they say, this does get to court?

Andy

here is how PACE works

http://pepipoo.com/NewForums2/viewtopic.php?t=2846

andyescos

they even admit to recieving the details of the driver! but as it was on a PACE statemnt which can't be used in court as I've not been cautioned, they're cross.

Graceland

sounds like they are scraping the bottom of their barrel to attempt to secure a conviction against you

Neil S

iTrader: (1)

Stick with it Andy!

Ignore that letter and wait for the summons. They're clutching at straws there...

Neil.

Sketch

As per Neil!!!

Im gonna be in exactly the same boat at the end of the month when my PACE statement goes off - should be fun

AlexF

superb!!

Poom

What happened may I ask?

MikeR

What happended and also whats a pace statement ???


Mike

Alan s1

more info please andy

Anonymous

If more people fought against these stupid fines it would do everyone a favour my making the police less keen to try and prosecute people over "offences" that are not even slightly against the public interest such as exceeding an arbitary limit when its safe to do so.


Keep us posted

andyescos

full story is here

http://pepipoo.com/NewForums2/viewto...er=asc&start=0

Stand up and be counted! Us Brits are to easily led, "yes sir no sir" have some bollocks and stand up for things, so I "may" of driven over the speed limit, but as I've put on pepipoo.co.uk


"Fred West and Ian Huntley had the right to remain silent, a trial by judge and jury, and were innocent until proven guilty. So why aren't I?"

Andy

MikeR

Andy what was you alledgly doing, speeding how much and were ?? i read 3 pages but never fully understand what you are accused of

Mike

CarismaDave

Keep going mate....I got off two years ago by doing something similar and it seems like things have changed a bit more in the drivers' favour.

Good luck to ya

andyescos

Jock, it's a simple 62 in a 50 limit on the M1,and all I'm doing is using the fact that you don't legally have to fill out the NIP (notice of intended prosecution) as doing so will self incrimintae yourself. If you use a PACE witness statment, which can't be used in court against you as you've not been given the caution, then you are telling them that you were the driver, but not in a way that can be used in court, alledgedly!

see the bit on pepipoo about PACE.

I'm sure someone else can word it better for me.
Andy

MikeR

Um will take a look at this and get myself a few copies of this few ready lol,

Good luck with it though, i have got of with so many things it is beyond funny so my luck must be up soon

mike

_Ben_

I am very interested in this, having been snipped at 59 in a 50 on the way to Hethel...

PACE will be submitted as soon as the gits have posted me some mugshots.

The bastards were in an unmarked van parked in a ditch... of course, can't prove that now though.

Cheers.

Oranoco

Good on you Andy. Mmore people should have the balls to stand up for themselves rather than taking the easy option of paying the fines and then bleating about if for the next six months

MikeR

Were can you get these Pace forms from ??

Mike

_Ben_

Check his link, the pepipoo site has a pretty cool template for it. Its not a get out of jail free card though so if you use it and want to win expect a day in court!

Cheers.

andyescos

This is from Pepipoo, so if you win your case then donate your Ł60 to the site, as I will.


WITNESS STATEMENT
(C.J. Act 1967, s9 MC Act 1980, ss. 5A (3a) and 5B. M.C. Rules 1981, r70)

Name:........................... Occupation:................

D.o.B:........................... Over 18
__________________________________________________ ___________________
This statement consisting of 1 page and attached NIP/ S 172 Notice is true to the best of my knowledge and belief and I make it knowing that if it is tendered in evidence I shall be liable to prosecution if I have wilfully stated in it anything which I know to be false or do not believe to be true.

Dated....................... Signed................................
__________________________________________________ ___________________

Their Ref: NIP reference number
Vehicle registration number

Dear Chief Constable,

Further to the above Notice of Intended Prosecution: I confirm that the following individual was driving the above vehicle at the time of the alleged motoring offence:

ALL OF THE DETAILS REQUIRED ON THE NIP – name, address, date of birth, driver number etc. etc.

I have not received the caution required by paragraph 10.1 of PACE Code C [Mawdesley -v- the Chief Constable of Cheshire [2004] 1 All E.R. 58]. Therefore, it is my understanding that, and this statement and the information in it is submitted subject to the condition that, it may not and will not "be given in evidence to a court in a prosecution".

Yours sincerely,

Signature of driver

Name of Driver

andyescos

don't you just lurve justice!

_Ben_

I wouldn't mind being caught and having points slapped on my licence if it wasn't one of those sneaky fking non-copper laser camera vans which parks so far awayits barely on the road!!!!

Pisses me right off. cnuts.

Anonymous

I wouldnt mind if the limits actuall bore just some tiny little semblance of realism in terms of whats safe in a modern car in good weather if you leave a decent gap between you and the car in front!

They should have "gap cameras" cause all the accidents ive seen its been driving too close not driving too fast thats caused it!

_Ben_

Agree on that point too. Dread to think that one day we might have the SPECS ones everywhere.... again, cnuts.

Anonymous

If im driving anywhere very far and im in a hurry i take my plates off of the car TBH

Its only a "VDR" form for not having a plate in the unlikely even they bother to pull you, and due to them spending all their money on cameras not coppers ive never been stopped so far!

Oranoco

Funny that my front plate has an annoying tendancy to fall off. Always keep it in the car though

Anonymous

my plates have been stolen so many times by pranksters that i now carry a spare set in the boot so i can put them back on if mine get nicked

Oranoco

What's the world comming to eh?

Jimboxr4x4

PACE is the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984.

I haven't looked at the links but don't see how that statement form will work. There is nothing to stop them summonsing you to court and getting you in the witness box.

Hope it does work but don't see how to be honest.

Anonymous

Summons for what?

Cant summons for speeding caues they dont have any proof who was driving

Cant summons for failure to notify as you have notified


Well, thtats the theory!!!!!

Fingers crossed

andyescos

Exactly, and case law has allready7 stated that by sending a PACE WS you have compied with 172, if they decide to do for speeding then that's a U turn on what they've allready stated!

Love it!

Neil S

iTrader: (1)

Andy, they WILL summons you I reckon.

They cant make you take the witness box, so I wouldnt worry about that.

They will likely summons you for S172 Failing to Provide. This is mutually exclusive to speeding - if they cant prove driver identity, then they cant prosecute you for speeding . Same applies the other way - to get a conviction for speeding, they must be able to prove identity, and if they're saying you havent complied with S172, then they cant prove identity!!

It's one or the other

You may be lucky - the CPS dropped my case before it got to court (although I didnt use PACE). I'm now in the process of making sure they cant re-commence proceedings, then I'll be hitting them with a large costs claim

I'm sure you've read the threads on Pepipoo - just be ready for any tricks they might try, and stick to your guns. It's about time more people stood up for themselves!!!

Neil.

rstoughy

iTrader: (5)

Never heard of this before so best of luck with it Andy and hope it all goes your way

Lambchop

iTrader: (1)

Just read through your thread on the link and fair play mate

good luck

rsrob

hope it goes ok for you matey

andyescos

dannyblackpool

Sunil_FiestaRS1800

iTrader: (1)

well done mate.

i gotta away with it once beacause the nip's never came they then sent me a court order for failing to notify the driver . so i sent a letter straight back saying i was the driver but never recieved the nip's. Went to court they couldnt prove whether i had recieved the nip as they are not sent recorded. So they let me go with no points or fine

On a side note i just went past a camera van on the A4 before maidnehead bridge. It was tucked away behind a bus stop so you cant see it till you come round the corner and then its to late. It was also a dark greent colour and only had a tiny yellow placard with a camera on it to indentify it as a camera van. I though they had to be clearly visible?

pjv7771

thats brilliant mate, well done !

D19 STE