Engine building.
Engine building.
With recent topics like the 803 post & Martins post ( 
)
DO tuners get worried that maybe the arse will fall out of the market with regards to actual engine building?
I mean a good 450bhp engine will set you back at least 7k with ancillaries etc & martins new build, are people willing to spend that sort of money nowadays.
To me & alot of mere mortals on this board (NO DIGS INTENDED BTW!!) gathering 7k together would mean saving for a year or getting some kind of finance together. I appriciate the work involved in the whole process, and having to make a living etc don't get me wrong!! I'm looking at this from as i say a normal working man's life, where mortgages, kids etc have to come first.
Looking through the whole board there is an increase of people selling off the blue oval for more up to date machines whether it be Jap or European, and not alot of true hardcore ford lovers around anymore......
Does this worry you at all?
PLEASE DON'T MAKE THIS POST INTO SOMETHING ITS NOT!!!
)DO tuners get worried that maybe the arse will fall out of the market with regards to actual engine building?
I mean a good 450bhp engine will set you back at least 7k with ancillaries etc & martins new build, are people willing to spend that sort of money nowadays.
To me & alot of mere mortals on this board (NO DIGS INTENDED BTW!!) gathering 7k together would mean saving for a year or getting some kind of finance together. I appriciate the work involved in the whole process, and having to make a living etc don't get me wrong!! I'm looking at this from as i say a normal working man's life, where mortgages, kids etc have to come first.
Looking through the whole board there is an increase of people selling off the blue oval for more up to date machines whether it be Jap or European, and not alot of true hardcore ford lovers around anymore......
Does this worry you at all?
PLEASE DON'T MAKE THIS POST INTO SOMETHING ITS NOT!!!
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I dont see how thats any different to the last 50 years of building engines?
And you dont think that any of the tuners on here stick purely to old cossies do you?
Take Mark Shead for example, the man is a living legend in Jap tuning circles.
You adapt or you become extinct in engine bulding just like anything else!
And you dont think that any of the tuners on here stick purely to old cossies do you?
Take Mark Shead for example, the man is a living legend in Jap tuning circles.
You adapt or you become extinct in engine bulding just like anything else!
No i realise that Chip, as i say it was just a question i felt like asking.
I mean most people these days are starting to have less free cash, then say in the early 90's.
I mean most people these days are starting to have less free cash, then say in the early 90's.
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Originally Posted by Franco
No i realise that Chip, as i say it was just a question i felt like asking.
I mean most people these days are starting to have less free cash, then say in the early 90's.
I mean most people these days are starting to have less free cash, then say in the early 90's.
From what ive seen though, the prices of houses means people have more money to spend on their cars.
I know so many people who have made it to late 20s and not been able to afford to get on the ladder so still live at home or share with mates etc, that ironically means more spare cash for stuff like blowing on engines
i'd be minted if i didn't buy my house at 25 a couple of years ago...............fooking thing bleeds me dry 
If i still lived at home or with mates i would have no probs getting a 500/escos and spending 7+k on an engine or anything else for that matter.
If i still lived at home or with mates i would have no probs getting a 500/escos and spending 7+k on an engine or anything else for that matter.
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Re: Engine building.
Originally Posted by Franco
To me & alot of mere mortals on this board (NO DIGS INTENDED BTW!!) gathering 7k together would mean saving for a year or getting some kind of finance together.
7k would take over 2 years for me to save,and even that would be pushing it!
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except for the fact i USED to have a 400bhp cossie,and now i cant afford anything better?cos it kept breaking,and put me SOOOOOO far into debt its unbeleivable!seriously,you wouldnt get anything this nice with a ford badge on it for what i paid! and it least its a mans car,4wd boy! 
and it least its a mans car,4wd boy!
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The thing with engines, and i think most tuners will agree, is theres very little profit in them. Most of us dont even like building them if we are honest as its a product we have no control over.
It personally wouldnt bother me if i had no engines to build at all as that would leave more time for more profitable work.
It personally wouldnt bother me if i had no engines to build at all as that would leave more time for more profitable work.
Originally Posted by Stu @ M Developments
The thing with engines, and i think most tuners will agree, is theres very little profit in them. Most of us dont even like building them if we are honest as its a product we have no control over.
It personally wouldnt bother me if i had no engines to build at all as that would leave more time for more profitable work.
It personally wouldnt bother me if i had no engines to build at all as that would leave more time for more profitable work.
I'd understand if you didn't want to elaborate though.
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Originally Posted by Franco
Originally Posted by Stu @ M Developments
The thing with engines, and i think most tuners will agree, is theres very little profit in them. Most of us dont even like building them if we are honest as its a product we have no control over.
It personally wouldnt bother me if i had no engines to build at all as that would leave more time for more profitable work.
It personally wouldnt bother me if i had no engines to build at all as that would leave more time for more profitable work.
I'd understand if you didn't want to elaborate though.
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Well, this is our MAIN line of work. Browse our range of performance software available:
http://www.motorsport-developments.c...data/index.php
This is why we spend most of our time at a PC.
http://www.motorsport-developments.c...data/index.php
This is why we spend most of our time at a PC.
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Re: Engine building.
Originally Posted by Franco
Looking through the whole board there is an increase of people selling off the blue oval for more up to date machines whether it be Jap or European, and not alot of true hardcore ford lovers around anymore......
Does this worry you at all?
Does this worry you at all?
It's fair to say that in the UK in the past 10 or so years there's not been a lot of cars in the same market as the Cosworth when it comes to availability of the cars and specialised companies dealing with them. Plus those specialists can offer services for the other Fords such as the RS-turbo.
But now it seems the whole market it swamped with many alternatives such as models the VAG/Audi range, Mitsibushi, Subaru & Nissan.
Given that the Cosworths are now creeping into classic car territory and prices are climbing and the availability of parts are decreasing any Ford specialist who hasn't adapted to other brands/models could be on shakey ground.
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I build a lot of engines every year, supply even more heads and loads of trick parts like steel rods/cranks etc. If I'm honest I wish this was'nt part of my business as the profit is pathetic but its something I seem to have got into. The demand is always high for engines and heads so I don't see this changing for a long time yet. I just wish folk would appreciate that its not just the sum of the parts you are paying for but the experience and labour, so it annoys me when people quibble over the price of an engine!!
As an example imagine I quote 7K for a 450bhp engine. Of that Ł5500 will be parts alone leaving a pathetic Ł1500 for labour, machining and experience of building such engines. Every man and his dog thinks its just about bolting the parts together but it is'nt. Its a subject I'm deeply defensive about and ultimately it just means I either refuse to build an engine or I have to lower the spec to keep the cost down and still make a viable profit.
As an example imagine I quote 7K for a 450bhp engine. Of that Ł5500 will be parts alone leaving a pathetic Ł1500 for labour, machining and experience of building such engines. Every man and his dog thinks its just about bolting the parts together but it is'nt. Its a subject I'm deeply defensive about and ultimately it just means I either refuse to build an engine or I have to lower the spec to keep the cost down and still make a viable profit.
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Originally Posted by Karl
I build a lot of engines every year, supply even more heads and loads of trick parts like steel rods/cranks etc. If I'm honest I wish this was'nt part of my business as the profit is pathetic but its something I seem to have got into. The demand is always high for engines and heads so I don't see this changing for a long time yet. I just wish folk would appreciate that its not just the sum of the parts you are paying for but the experience and labour, so it annoys me when people quibble over the price of an engine!!
As an example imagine I quote 7K for a 450bhp engine. Of that Ł5500 will be parts alone leaving a pathetic Ł1500 for labour, machining and experience of building such engines. Every man and his dog thinks its just about bolting the parts together but it is'nt. Its a subject I'm deeply defensive about and ultimately it just means I either refuse to build an engine or I have to lower the spec to keep the cost down and still make a viable profit.
As an example imagine I quote 7K for a 450bhp engine. Of that Ł5500 will be parts alone leaving a pathetic Ł1500 for labour, machining and experience of building such engines. Every man and his dog thinks its just about bolting the parts together but it is'nt. Its a subject I'm deeply defensive about and ultimately it just means I either refuse to build an engine or I have to lower the spec to keep the cost down and still make a viable profit.
People are far too product focussed and not focuessed enough on the enginering of an engine.
They are happy to pay big money for steel rods or a fancy crank, but not to make sure thier pistons are actually running striaght in the bore and the bearing tunnel is straight and round etc.
I dont envy your position Karl!
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Originally Posted by Karl
I build a lot of engines every year, supply even more heads and loads of trick parts like steel rods/cranks etc. If I'm honest I wish this was'nt part of my business as the profit is pathetic but its something I seem to have got into. The demand is always high for engines and heads so I don't see this changing for a long time yet. I just wish folk would appreciate that its not just the sum of the parts you are paying for but the experience and labour, so it annoys me when people quibble over the price of an engine!!
As an example imagine I quote 7K for a 450bhp engine. Of that Ł5500 will be parts alone leaving a pathetic Ł1500 for labour, machining and experience of building such engines. Every man and his dog thinks its just about bolting the parts together but it is'nt. Its a subject I'm deeply defensive about and ultimately it just means I either refuse to build an engine or I have to lower the spec to keep the cost down and still make a viable profit.
As an example imagine I quote 7K for a 450bhp engine. Of that Ł5500 will be parts alone leaving a pathetic Ł1500 for labour, machining and experience of building such engines. Every man and his dog thinks its just about bolting the parts together but it is'nt. Its a subject I'm deeply defensive about and ultimately it just means I either refuse to build an engine or I have to lower the spec to keep the cost down and still make a viable profit.
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Originally Posted by Franco
I relpied below that post Stu!!!
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From: Marlow Bucks
Originally Posted by Stu @ M Developments
The thing with engines, and i think most tuners will agree, is theres very little profit in them. Most of us dont even like building them if we are honest as its a product we have no control over.
It personally wouldnt bother me if i had no engines to build at all as that would leave more time for more profitable work.
It personally wouldnt bother me if i had no engines to build at all as that would leave more time for more profitable work.
I agree 100% with Stu.Mark
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Originally Posted by chip-3door
Originally Posted by Franco
No i realise that Chip, as i say it was just a question i felt like asking.
I mean most people these days are starting to have less free cash, then say in the early 90's.
I mean most people these days are starting to have less free cash, then say in the early 90's.
From what ive seen though, the prices of houses means people have more money to spend on their cars.
I know so many people who have made it to late 20s and not been able to afford to get on the ladder so still live at home or share with mates etc, that ironically means more spare cash for stuff like blowing on engines
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