big_wig_074

even the non ford ones?

say if i took some pictures of participating cars (which obviously do NOT have any aversion to being photographed,as they are in just about every car magazine going for months afterwards) and decided to make a few quid selling these pictures,not a living,a few quid,professional looking pictures etc.. would passionford have ANY say over wether i could sell them or not? and if so how much did passionford receive from the many magazines that are publishing these pictures and making huge amounts of cash?

Phil

iTrader: (1)

Eh???

Why would PassionFord have ANYTHING to do with your photographs?

If YOU take the picture then YOU own the copyright (unless you are working for someone and have signed away the copyright to them.)

markk

iTrader: (2)

not without the owners permission of the object in the picture you dont

big_wig_074

just wondering why my mate was threatened with legal action from THIS website,claiming THEY owned the rights to his pictures that HE took and is making a few quid on! nothing major,he goes to HUNDREDS of motorsport events a year,rallys etc....takes good pics of everything and if someone wants to pay him a few quid to see the cars he pays to go see(it helps pay towards going to the events! doesnt make a profit!) then why is that a problem?

Anonymous

Not the case im afriad

Otherwise everytime they took a picture of 20,000 people at a football match in the crowd they would have to get permission off them all to be in the picture!

markk

iTrader: (2)

i have no problem with anyone photographing my car on a n event, i even am willing to buy photos if there what i want, its when people try to sell the pics without my permission for an extrosionate price that i wont tolerate.

i had this with a photographer once, took a load of photos of my car, then tried to sell me them, i asked for a cd with all 8 i think it was, the price............................................. .............Ł450 iirc WTF


ok this guy does this for a living, hence maybe a higher price for the photos, but he;s not going to make his living out of my expense without my permission.

but like you say, to resell a good pic high res with the owners permission, i would have no problem for say a Ł5 a pic, your hardly going to become a millionaire off my back at that .

markk

iTrader: (2)

have a read of the small print or the terms and conditions for the club m8, it WILL be in there, i know because my solicitor sorted it for me

Anonymous

LOL, ok fair point football match was a bad example

Phil

iTrader: (1)

As Chip said, not at all true. Otherwise if I took a picture of someones car on track I would have to get permission from the track to sell the photo, permission of any spectators in the picture, any marshalls etc etc. It would never work and is completely not the case.

The only way he could be in trouble is if the organisers of the event have sold exclusivity rights to someone and therefore have security not allowing cameras and signage displayed to the same effect. This is often then case at concerts.

Alternatively certian people may have special access which photographers will have paid for and therefore they are not permitted to sell photos. (E.g. F1 team employees with full pit/circuit access cannot sell photos they take as photographers pay to be there.)

I can't see why he would be in troubel so long as they are his pictures

big_wig_074

my mate is selling circa 400 photos at a time and its going up to 20 quid sometimes on ebay!!! genuine pics from the 80s of touring cars and group b,thats hardly a living! its just to help pay for his hobby by using photography(his other hobby)!

and as for the small print,ive been in photos in magazines when i was at a club meet,NEVER has ANYONE asked my permission or said "ill give you 5p to take this!"

Phil

iTrader: (1)

In a private place then as I said in my exclusivity rights bit, but in public it is 100% not the case. Do you think Kate Moss had to give her permission to photographer who sold the pictures of her doing coke to The Mirror?

Not many track days etc have problems with selling photos but he needs to sign on as media in future to double check

markk

iTrader: (2)

i think alot of it is that people have just got away with it for so long, 'infringment of rights' i think is how it was termed, with the likes of track organised/closed events it can be easliy got round like i said before company rules/terms and conditions, all they have to put on the ticket you buy to get in is 'on purchasing this ticket you agree to the terms and conditons of this organisation'

then print out a document in a publically accesible places stating your rights there right and that there will be photographers at theis venue.

simple really, but if a snapper jumped out in a public place with no permission what so ever then it is fuly available to sue for infingment of personal rights

markk

iTrader: (2)

but how many times have you seen injuctions taken and right to sue after print - it happens, just not all the time

Phil

iTrader: (1)

I think you mean invasion of privacy?

This can only be given if the person is in a place where they can expect a reasonable level of privacy. E.g. taking a photo of someone walking down the street is not an invasion of privacy (although it can amount to harrassment if done on a number of occasions and causes concern to the individual etc, but that is another case!) Using a big fat zoom and taking photos of someone who is in their secluded back garden or house can amount to an invasion of privacy, even if you are not trespassing to take the photo. Although it is not very clear cut an how to justify a reasonable level of privacy.

In the UK you can take photos of recogniseable people/faces and use them for your own commercial gain WITHOUT them having to sign a release form. This is not the case in a lot of countries though. A photographer can also take pictures of people's private property and use them for their own commercial gain so long as they are not trespassing to take the photo.

Dee

As a publisher of a magazine we can basically take photos of any cars at events. We also take photos of the crowd to capture the kind of attendance an event has had. The only time we are careful is when it comes to children, we never use any photos of them without written permission from the parents.

Once we have taken a photo it then has copyright protection and no-one is allowed to use it without prior permission from our company.

As far as I'm aware you can't stop people taking photos of objects etc. think of what a problem it would be at tourist places such as Buckingham Palace for example.

HTH

Jamz

I thought it said on the back of the tickets that the rights to all pictures and video taken at the event were owned by totb. Could be wrong though.

markk

iTrader: (2)

im not going to go into all the details as to what/where/when happened but like i said, i pay to enter rally events, after that if a picture is taken of me/my car then i have rights as to what happens with it, that is if i ever get to know about it.

big_wig_074

but do PASSIONFORD own any rights? as its them that wrote the warning to my mate

Phil

iTrader: (1)

I think you should go in to details! To the very best of my knowledge only the event organisers hold any possible rights to the photo! If you could identify yourself in the picture then you can theoretically get into all sorts of Data Protection Act crap but it doesn't really happen.

I'm by no means an expert so would like to know and learn

You pay to go to Alton Towers, but it doesn't stop them selling a photo of you on a ride to anyone who may wish to purchase it.

Dee

It says in clause 4 of the ticket

"Any commercial filming/photography without the written permission of Trackday Plus Ltd is strictly prohibited"

Jamz

PassionFord having nothing to do with TOTB. The user TOTB posts on here but thats it.

Phil

iTrader: (1)

Do you mean Performance Ford?

This site is PassionFord you numpty, they don't have anything to do with TOTB

Even if it was Performance Ford who wrote, I don't think they even cover the event?

big_wig_074

no, my mate linked the ebay page he was selling them on onto this site and THEY told him to remove it or theyd take action as they own the rights to totb!!



numpty!

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

I want see this warning document put up on this topic in public for all to see please.

big_wig_074

er....its on my mates pc! as he got it!im NOT having a go here,he got this email,i trust him thoroughly and if he said he got it he got it. he was VERY puzzled! so,if he linked them again would he get another email? just wondering.

The Sludge

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Im not suggesting you are having a go at all pal
I am simply shocked and confused and dont think this warning from PassionFord.com actually exists, and if it does, i would like to know exactly why it was sent and from whom.

Petrucci

same for me, it's not Stu, and it's not me. So who are you talking about ?

markk

iTrader: (2)

i cant, for legal reasons.

big_wig_074

he said it was from passionford, with "regards stu and pet" written at the bottom of the email,now he has only been on this site a few times and doesnt know you run it,so would not be slanderous against you at all,just what was written at the bottom of the page. i will contact him and see if he can find any copies of it on his pc. so,as long as it didnt come from stu and pet im happy that it was written by someone getting above their post and being a net hitler!, i only brought this up as i wasnt aware of passionford owning ANY rights to the pictures taken at TOTB,but i AM aware of a few people getting upset at him making 20 quid occasionally from selling photos! cheers stu and pet for confirming it wasnt you,ill pass it on to my mate and see if he can provide the evidence.

Petrucci

mh. this still shocks me, who would use our identity to send those kind of mails ? and also, what email address does it come from? as Stu or I would only write with the passionford email addy for those kind of things

Anonymous

Post up the complete email with all the headers.

GAZ W

big wig

was it your mate selling the mk2 escort cds on ebay

if so tell him he's done a fantastic job

i brought one and its good , my car is on there and have no problems at all with this , some great pictures on there and if wasnt for the cd i would never have seen half these cars

Al Bags

Mate ...

Ask your friend .. If it is an email .. to Right click on the mail, select properties, then Details ... and Message Source. Copy paste those details up so we can see them. That will show the originators details.

Anonymous

I deffo did not give permission for a speed camera to take mu picture recently, only small print i saw was 3 points.

Stavros

Only people who would have any rights for TOTB would be Redline, 200+Club, and Straightliners, cant think of anyone else, and even they wouldnt do shit i doubt...

Summat strange here

Cam

Its on the terms and conditions of entry that by buying ticket you agree

big_wig_074

gaz, probably,he puts them in categories,so you could buy loads of one type of car,or loads or type of racing etc...

he's at the cinema at the mo,ill see if he's about later to sort a copy. he removed the item from ebay immediately as he didnt want any hassle.

he has had people demanding free pics as they own specific cars and getting arsey with him,but he's only taking pics of cars that actually compete,not ones in car parks (not usually anyway!),he could understand if that was the case,but they are at an event that will be publicised internationally so their pic WILL be sold for profit by many people without their own specific permission!

Lee @ Fusion

lol @ rod

Did a track day at the weekend and i presume the photographer either paid , or was granted permission to be there ,

I have no probs with anyone else there taking piccys of my car , but if they wanted to sell them ( of my car only , not in a group of other cars ) asking me would be polite ,

chris-m

To clarify what has happened, we sent a pm to the guy on passionford the other night, after seeing him post the cd for sale up on here and on other forums.

We at TOTB hold the copyright to pictures and video from the event, and while we have absolutely no problem with people sharing theirs for free, it was stated clearly on entry to the event on the tickets (and by signs on the entry gate) that taking pictures or video/media footage for later re-sale/commercial gain was breaking our copyright. Anyone wishing to do so would just need to contact us beforehand. We have loads of pics and video footage available for free on our site, and loads of pics have been posted up for free elsewhere.

We sent a pm to him clarifying the matter and asking him nicely to remove the item from sale, or to contact us if he wished for clarification of the issue. We had a decent reply stating it had been removed, and that was the end of the matter for us.

His advert for it on was actually posted on our own totb forum on here and on GTR register where we pay to advertise officially.

Rgds