FAO: Experts, ALS Help Please
17-09-2005, 04:20 PM
#1
www.ctuceilings.co.uk
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Kent
Posts: 9,370
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
FAO: Experts, ALS Help Please
Right, the car is going to be mapped soon so I need to decide on what to do about the ALS. I have a Maram shaft and want to make full use of it and have some decent ALS for inbetween the gears.
What is te best way to do it?
I mean, should I get my throttle body ported and run an ALS valve, or get throttle body ported and modify the ISCV, or just modify the ISCV, or something else...
Of course I would still like a decent idle from cold if possible, but does that have to mean that I need to run an ALS valve and a ISCV, if so, how?
I don't see the point in having the turbo and the ECU to do it properly and only just about make positive boost. Please help me.
Thank you
What is te best way to do it?
I mean, should I get my throttle body ported and run an ALS valve, or get throttle body ported and modify the ISCV, or just modify the ISCV, or something else...
Of course I would still like a decent idle from cold if possible, but does that have to mean that I need to run an ALS valve and a ISCV, if so, how?
I don't see the point in having the turbo and the ECU to do it properly and only just about make positive boost. Please help me.
Thank you
17-09-2005, 06:10 PM
#6
just finding my feet
the noise, the heat adn the fact its pointless on a few car
well unless ya wanna cruise on idle popping and banging then go for it
oh and ya cant engine break with ALS as the car will go faster
well unless ya wanna cruise on idle popping and banging then go for it
oh and ya cant engine break with ALS as the car will go faster
Trending Topics
17-09-2005, 06:21 PM
#8
Norris Motorsport
Why?
Because the majority of people who have it fitted do not use their cars for competition use. When I build a competition car I will go to every length possible to make the car a class leader and that includes ALS if it helps.
If its a road car then ALS can only be to impress chav's and girlies, so I frown on applications like this!! It shortens turbo and engine life, especially the thermal fatigue on exhaust valves and causes cvh engines to lose exhaust valve heads on a regular basis. On a competition engine where the engine only needs to run for a few hours between rebuilds this is acceptable but for a road cvh engine it is disaster waiting to happen!!!!
Because the majority of people who have it fitted do not use their cars for competition use. When I build a competition car I will go to every length possible to make the car a class leader and that includes ALS if it helps.
If its a road car then ALS can only be to impress chav's and girlies, so I frown on applications like this!! It shortens turbo and engine life, especially the thermal fatigue on exhaust valves and causes cvh engines to lose exhaust valve heads on a regular basis. On a competition engine where the engine only needs to run for a few hours between rebuilds this is acceptable but for a road cvh engine it is disaster waiting to happen!!!!
17-09-2005, 07:36 PM
#14
My opinion on ALS has changed alot in recent times.
I think people are under the impression that it will make a laggy turbo into one that isn't laggy. OK, so if you could engineer the whole package to take lots of ALS as per a Rally car, then fair enough, but if you can't then the balance of what there is to gain, against the risk of running it makes it not really worth pinning your hopes on.
Besides which, the RST Gearbox is looking for every opportunity to have its Internals re-arranged, why make it worse?
I will probably have it, and have the facility for a totally separate ALS Valve already in place, but I don't really plan on using it (except to impress the Chav's ). But I'm wise/disciplined enough to understand that my car isn't indestructible and her indoors has made it perfectly plain that if it breaks again, it goes in the garage and stays there for a very long time.
I think people are under the impression that it will make a laggy turbo into one that isn't laggy. OK, so if you could engineer the whole package to take lots of ALS as per a Rally car, then fair enough, but if you can't then the balance of what there is to gain, against the risk of running it makes it not really worth pinning your hopes on.
Besides which, the RST Gearbox is looking for every opportunity to have its Internals re-arranged, why make it worse?
I will probably have it, and have the facility for a totally separate ALS Valve already in place, but I don't really plan on using it (except to impress the Chav's
). But I'm wise/disciplined enough to understand that my car isn't indestructible and her indoors has made it perfectly plain that if it breaks again, it goes in the garage and stays there for a very long time.
17-09-2005, 09:35 PM
#16
just finding my feet
Originally Posted by DaveEscos
oh and ya cant engine break with ALS as the car will go faster
where DO you find all the bolocks you preach!
i used to wonder what ALS was as steveN had it on his 3 door and so was gettign info about it, wanted to know if it ant be available on a erst and then it got all techy and i got lost, all i remember was ALS killed gearboxs and caused loads of heat and then main thing i remember hearing was it due to the idle by pass if you engine braked it would not lower the revs but keep em up for some reason
but dont worry as then you got ALS fitted to ya car and noticed it was fooking LOUD and really just for looks ( or attention) and then jano got it and,,,,,,,,,,, well the rest is history
ALS is not for a road car as the point of it is for real performance cars to give the few seconds difference but for road use if ya wanna save 3 seconds turn off ya stereo and aircon
dave just wondering your antilag, was if full bore or was it just mild and 0 psi on idle, always wondered and this seems a good time to ask
also did ya find it any better as such on a t34 car
and is there a quiet version of it available as its fooking too loud
18-09-2005, 03:35 PM
#17
I have ALS on the XR3 which has done 28,000miles some road, some race drag or track events with no engine problems or turbo problems. This is a CVH 1600 without 247 shaft.
I have built 16ZT with ALS 7psi@idle done over 3000 miles with no problems.
Series One 1600 CVH has now done 500miles some track use at silverstone and brandshatch with and without ALS on a STD shafted Turbo with no problems!
A customers ERST 1600cvh used for hillclimbing is now second in his class using the aid of ALS & Dizzyless He was 5th!. 1st in his class is a full blown MistyEvo.
ALS does help when running for races, drag etc.. On the road it is a little extreme but when in control can be fun
The reason it is fitted to ours is because we run P8 with dizzyless, when you have this conversion its only another £200 for ALS 
The heat and engines blowing up is a myth as far as im concerned. Our maps take everything into account. If the ACT temp is higher than 35degree the ALS will NOT come on when switched on. If on for more than 10seconds and not used it will switch off. If ACT temp rises switched off + loads of other safety measures.
Regards
I have built 16ZT with ALS 7psi@idle done over 3000 miles with no problems.
Series One 1600 CVH has now done 500miles some track use at silverstone and brandshatch with and without ALS on a STD shafted Turbo with no problems!
A customers ERST 1600cvh used for hillclimbing is now second in his class using the aid of ALS & Dizzyless He was 5th!. 1st in his class is a full blown MistyEvo.
ALS does help when running for races, drag etc.. On the road it is a little extreme but when in control can be fun
The reason it is fitted to ours is because we run P8 with dizzyless, when you have this conversion its only another £200 for ALS The heat and engines blowing up is a myth as far as im concerned. Our maps take everything into account. If the ACT temp is higher than 35degree the ALS will NOT come on when switched on. If on for more than 10seconds and not used it will switch off. If ACT temp rises switched off + loads of other safety measures.
Regards
18-09-2005, 03:45 PM
#18
just finding my feet
The heat and engines blowing up is a myth as far as im concerned. Our maps take everything into account. If the ACT temp is higher than 35degree the ALS will NOT come on when switched on. If on for more than 10seconds and not used it will switch off. If ACT temp rises switched off + loads of other safety measures.
does it stop the car engine braking btw ( i know ya dont usually have anti lag on when driving but im sure ya have once
)
18-09-2005, 09:43 PM
#19
Just cos i dont use it going round a sea front doesnt meen that i dont use it on the track, drag or brunters etc.. 
Nothing can stop the engine from braking unless you build it right and look after it right! The main things that will break is your transmission Hence why my engine is out having the MTX75 fitted 
Nothing can stop the engine from braking unless you build it right and look after it right!
The main things that will break is your transmission Hence why my engine is out having the MTX75 fitted
18-09-2005, 10:00 PM
#23
Originally Posted by Christian and Beccy
It does make your brakes shite too, due to the lack of Vacuum for the Servo. 
Have a look at a couple of the Vids
https://passionford.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=130383
18-09-2005, 10:40 PM
#25
Originally Posted by Christian and Beccy
I think people are under the impression that it will make a laggy turbo into one that isn't laggy. OK, so if you could engineer the whole package to take lots of ALS as per a Rally car, then fair enough,
A Laggy Turbo becomes instant with ALS. If desired you can run with Pectel 12stage+1 variable boost via Air injectors to add a lilte adjustment with ALS. If you dont have AIr Injectors you can set the ALS level via the ECU and also via hole sizes etc..
Also when you have ALS because you have a P8 and coil pack
you get the larger spark which obviously gives you better response, power etc.. On my 1600cvh I gained 14 bhp when uprated to P8 with dizzyless this could be done due to a few reasons but one would be the extra amount of advance, higher boost you can run depending, better mapping, etc etc..
Just a little more to talk about
19-09-2005, 08:07 AM
#27
PassionFord Post Whore!!
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Warsaw, Poland
Posts: 5,343
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by b19bal
and is there a quiet version of it available as its fooking too loud
I was told by Norwegian guys running 3-door Impreza in european rallycross championchip that special ecxhaus design can reduce nose. I am not quite sure but either ALS is illegal in ralycross sort of limiting turbo size, or the nise level would be illegal with standard setup. Anyway on their car as on most top rallycross car's you can't hear the "bang bang" from the exhaust only loud noise of air going back through air filter. But they got massive exhaust I think it maybe 4 or 5 inch at some sections.
19-09-2005, 10:28 AM
#29
20K+ Super Poster.
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 23,377
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Mike Rainbird
I very rarely turn the ALS on on the road, as it is a bit anti-social, but it is great on track .
.Firstly you can't use it on most track days as it flips the noise meter straight away.
Secondly, where is the lag on track? If the engine is built correctly, and the cams/head porting/turbo all matched, then why the need for ALS? Where does it come in on circuit use?
19-09-2005, 10:31 AM
#30
PassionFord Post Whore!!
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Warsaw, Poland
Posts: 5,343
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by RichardPON
Where does it come in on circuit use?
Well, some circut racing cars use it. Improves throttle responseat the expense of rather agressive engine behaviour. I think GT cars in Japan use that.
19-09-2005, 11:16 AM
#31
PON,
Shows how much you know about ALS and turbos
.
ALS does not reduce the boost threshold, but keeps the power in between gear changes. All I would have to do is show you the difference with the ALS on and off and you would not believe the difference it makes. Off, and the boost drop is extremely noticable; On, and it drives like a T3 car in the way there is minimal drop between gears .
Also, although I can't get away with it at Bedford, I can at Snetterton (my local circuit), Donington on noisey days (basically the only time I go) and the 'Ring, so it's good enough for me .
Shows how much you know about ALS and turbos
.ALS does not reduce the boost threshold, but keeps the power in between gear changes. All I would have to do is show you the difference with the ALS on and off and you would not believe the difference it makes
. Off, and the boost drop is extremely noticable; On, and it drives like a T3 car in the way there is minimal drop between gears .Also, although I can't get away with it at Bedford, I can at Snetterton (my local circuit
), Donington on noisey days (basically the only time I go) and the 'Ring, so it's good enough for me .
19-09-2005, 11:26 AM
#32
20K+ Super Poster.
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 23,377
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sorry, I still can't see it.
You're talking about reducing the lag by fractions of a second - how is it even noticeable?
Surely the only thing that's making any sort of lag an issue is the time it takes to change gear on the shonky standard pattern box?
You're talking about reducing the lag by fractions of a second - how is it even noticeable?
Surely the only thing that's making any sort of lag an issue is the time it takes to change gear on the shonky standard pattern box?
19-09-2005, 11:54 AM
#35
Originally Posted by RichardPON
Surely the only thing that's making any sort of lag an issue is the time it takes to change gear on the shonky standard pattern box?
.
19-09-2005, 12:23 PM
#37
PON,
It's a one off expenditure and I have used it on every track day I have ever been to, so that's 6 track days a year plus Nurburgring twice a year - EVERY year . Obviously it gets you black flagged at Bedford, but is still used even if it is last session of the day .
It's a one off expenditure and I have used it on every track day I have ever been to
, so that's 6 track days a year plus Nurburgring twice a year - EVERY year . Obviously it gets you black flagged at Bedford, but is still used even if it is last session of the day .
