500BHP turbos
15-09-2005, 07:32 AM
#42
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its all about management and compression to spool a large turbo... A friend of mine has a Peugeot 106 gti with a GT30 but on GEMS stand alone and a 9 comp. ratio... By 4500rpm he has 1.3 bar (or by 5000rpm an easy 1.6 bar) and its a mere 1.6 litre...(but he uses an insane tubular manifold!!!! 
forget the T4 and go for the modern ball bearing mate... maybe more expensive but....
forget the T4 and go for the modern ball bearing mate... maybe more expensive but....
15-09-2005, 09:05 AM
#46
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Kev if you haven't bought another T4 yet then I reckon this is a perfect time to try a GT30 matey. Heard nothing but good things about them
15-09-2005, 11:47 AM
#47
Originally Posted by dingy
why would you want to change to autronics for 500bhp ?
Seems like a waste of money to me when the standard ECU can do it.
Seems like a waste of money to me when the standard ECU can do it.
.
15-09-2005, 11:58 AM
#50
I aint argueing rich at all.
500bhp doesn't need autronics - which is what i asked....is it not ?
Why is it better for 500bhp over a level 8 (except the extra's) please feel free to answer instead of jumping on the Lee hates dingy band wagon......
Mine @ 300bhp is awesome though on level 8
500bhp doesn't need autronics - which is what i asked....is it not ?
Why is it better for 500bhp over a level 8 (except the extra's) please feel free to answer instead of jumping on the Lee hates dingy band wagon......
Mine @ 300bhp is awesome though on level 8
15-09-2005, 12:05 PM
#52
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It doesn't need it, no, that's true.
But since when has acheiving 500bhp been about making a power figure. Surely it's about driveability of the car- making sure you have the best application of power and torque, and that the engine is mapped for all variables, and as smoothly, and efficiently as possible.
If your arguement holds water, then L6 is capable of being used on a 500bhp engine, so why are you using level 8?
But since when has acheiving 500bhp been about making a power figure. Surely it's about driveability of the car- making sure you have the best application of power and torque, and that the engine is mapped for all variables, and as smoothly, and efficiently as possible.
If your arguement holds water, then L6 is capable of being used on a 500bhp engine, so why are you using level 8?
15-09-2005, 12:24 PM
#53
Rich,
I actually think that in some respects the old Cosworth ECUs are BETTER than the Autronics. For exmaple - the boost curve. A Cosworth ECU can have this mapped into the ECU so that is has a proper curve. I believe that the Autronics ECU needs an aftermarket boost controller to achieve this, which in my mind is a bit Michael Mouse
. The only thing where the P8 falls down compared to the Autronic is it's difficulty in being mapped when the pectel board is used.
I actually think that in some respects the old Cosworth ECUs are BETTER than the Autronics. For exmaple - the boost curve. A Cosworth ECU can have this mapped into the ECU so that is has a proper curve. I believe that the Autronics ECU needs an aftermarket boost controller to achieve this, which in my mind is a bit Michael Mouse
. The only thing where the P8 falls down compared to the Autronic is it's difficulty in being mapped when the pectel board is used.
15-09-2005, 12:37 PM
#55
Originally Posted by RichardPON
If your arguement holds water, then L6 is capable of being used on a 500bhp engine, so why are you using level 8?
Transcient fueling is better on Level 8 over level 6.
Still you haven't said why the autronics is better for 500bhp rich....keep having dig's at me cause i really aint arsed...i don't know the reason's why its better which is why i asked - this is a question not a fucking arguement.
Lee - was merely pointing out that you surposedily argued with me about the ring - was just meaning pon just jumped on that wagon and now this one.
15-09-2005, 12:40 PM
#56
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I'm not jumping on any wagon.
The bottom line is this - your atitude to ANY car modification is that unless YOU'VE got it, it must be shit.
I never said it was better or necessary for 500bhp specifically, but you still haven't told me why it's worse.
Couldn't possibly be because it's an MAD supported product - surely not?
The bottom line is this - your atitude to ANY car modification is that unless YOU'VE got it, it must be shit.
I never said it was better or necessary for 500bhp specifically, but you still haven't told me why it's worse.
Couldn't possibly be because it's an MAD supported product - surely not?
15-09-2005, 12:47 PM
#58
Originally Posted by RichardPON
Couldn't possibly be because it's an MAD supported product - surely not?
15-09-2005, 12:52 PM
#59
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You really like throwiing your toys out the pram as soon as someone disagrees with you!
As said before, it isn't NEEDED, as loads of 500bhp engines built over the past 10 years will testify.
Isn't it pretty obvious - it's a good product, Mark sells it, and maps it himself, therefore all the work is done in house. Why send customers elsewhere?
As said before, it isn't NEEDED, as loads of 500bhp engines built over the past 10 years will testify.
Isn't it pretty obvious - it's a good product, Mark sells it, and maps it himself, therefore all the work is done in house. Why send customers elsewhere?
15-09-2005, 12:56 PM
#60
A 12" dildo is a good product rich....but why.....
As for toys - why u having a go all the time ? Just cause i ask questions - nothing to do with any pram's or baby's dummies for that matter
If you don't know the answer stop having a go at me for trying to find out ffs
15-09-2005, 01:02 PM
#61
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Come on mate - you know, as do most people on here, that your question was totally loaded.
Anyone with half a brain can see that a specific ECU isn't needed for 500bhp.
Also, how is a 12" dildo a good product for you? Or is this what went on behind the scenes at the Ring?
Anyone with half a brain can see that a specific ECU isn't needed for 500bhp.
Also, how is a 12" dildo a good product for you? Or is this what went on behind the scenes at the Ring?
15-09-2005, 01:07 PM
#62
Your right - just like chip and lee mate - well done. 
So your saying people with autronics aint got half a brain ? Sweet.....
The dildo was with nutter mate - best ask him about the fun he had
So your saying people with autronics aint got half a brain ? Sweet.....
The dildo was with nutter mate - best ask him about the fun he had
15-09-2005, 01:12 PM
#64
DEYTUKURJERBS
Originally Posted by dingy
The dildo was with nutter mate - best ask him about the fun he had
15-09-2005, 01:17 PM
#65
Originally Posted by Porkie
Kev if you haven't bought another T4 yet then I reckon this is a perfect time to try a GT30 matey. Heard nothing but good things about them
15-09-2005, 01:23 PM
#66
Rich,
You're just as bad as Dingly is.
Could you please point out what additional features Autronic has over P8? I'm not saying there aren't any, I just don't know what they are, and I have already pointed out one thing I believe the Webber ECUs are capable of that the Autronic one isn't (although a later generation one may now have this?).
You're just as bad as Dingly is
. Could you please point out what additional features Autronic has over P8? I'm not saying there aren't any, I just don't know what they are, and I have already pointed out one thing I believe the Webber ECUs are capable of that the Autronic one isn't (although a later generation one may now have this?).
15-09-2005, 01:28 PM
#67
Originally Posted by Itsmeagain
Originally Posted by dingy
The dildo was with nutter mate - best ask him about the fun he had
Pon - i still aint arguing - asking questions down south must be what you class as argueing
15-09-2005, 01:39 PM
#69
The main thing that autronics offers is ease of setup to be perfectly honest, things like running a 5 bar map sensor easily, or huge injectors etc.
Its not actually needed though to make 500bhp
Pretty much any ecu is capable of basically running a 500bhp engine if properly setup to do so, its how easy that setup is thats a major difference.
There are lots of other advantages too though such as traction control, launch control, antilag, all very easy to setup compared to changing boards and stand alone systems used on cossie ECU's to do the same.
Same for lambda control for that matter.
FAR better error reporting and logging is also another bonus, it doesnt effect the peak figure on the rollers, but it does help with the day to day running of a big power car.
Autronics isnt about getting a higher peak power figure, its about all the other benefits far more.
Cossie ECU's though have one large benefit that autronic doesnt, there are lots of tuners out there with dozens of years experience using them on the YB, so for a "basic 500bhp setup" like a T4 and 8 greens, i can see why people stick to the webber gear.
Its not actually needed though to make 500bhp
Pretty much any ecu is capable of basically running a 500bhp engine if properly setup to do so, its how easy that setup is thats a major difference.
There are lots of other advantages too though such as traction control, launch control, antilag, all very easy to setup compared to changing boards and stand alone systems used on cossie ECU's to do the same.
Same for lambda control for that matter.
FAR better error reporting and logging is also another bonus, it doesnt effect the peak figure on the rollers, but it does help with the day to day running of a big power car.
Autronics isnt about getting a higher peak power figure, its about all the other benefits far more.
Cossie ECU's though have one large benefit that autronic doesnt, there are lots of tuners out there with dozens of years experience using them on the YB, so for a "basic 500bhp setup" like a T4 and 8 greens, i can see why people stick to the webber gear.
15-09-2005, 03:07 PM
#70
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Right this is turning into Managment issue now which is not needed imo
So the general opinion is got GT30, though T4 is tough as nails and easy to source etc. I think price will play a BIG part it in as if i can pick up a T4 for a fair bit cheaper than a GT30 then i will do that. But if not GT30 it has to be
Am i correct in thinking the oil feed etc on the GT30 will connect to the one on the cossie ok?
So the general opinion is got GT30, though T4 is tough as nails and easy to source etc. I think price will play a BIG part it in as if i can pick up a T4 for a fair bit cheaper than a GT30 then i will do that. But if not GT30 it has to be
Am i correct in thinking the oil feed etc on the GT30 will connect to the one on the cossie ok?
15-09-2005, 03:49 PM
#71
Chip you talking billy bollocks again
My engine yes the one on 1000cc injectors recorded a 3% co at idle on LEVEL 8 and drove off boost better imo than a stage 3 map
The only pain about autronics is the need for new wiring loom....BUT as said it aint no better than P8 except for one thing the most important thing..MarK Shead the God of YB tuning..that alone is worth buying Autronics to get his input ..Although i get all the info i need without byuing Autronic
My engine yes the one on 1000cc injectors recorded a 3% co at idle on LEVEL 8 and drove off boost better imo than a stage 3 map
The only pain about autronics is the need for new wiring loom....BUT as said it aint no better than P8 except for one thing the most important thing..MarK Shead the God of YB tuning..that alone is worth buying Autronics to get his input
..Although i get all the info i need without byuing Autronic
15-09-2005, 03:57 PM
#72
Originally Posted by Bosch-Man
Chip you talking billy bollocks again
Originally Posted by Bosch-Man
My engine yes the one on 1000cc injectors recorded a 3% co at idle on LEVEL 8 and drove off boost better imo than a stage 3 map
The difference of course is that if it were on autronic and you then wanted to swap to 1000cc from 750cc (or whatever it was mapped with) or vice versa, you could easily do so, but on L8 you couldnt.
Its that control that is the advantage, like i was saying, but obviously went straight over your head as per normal.
15-09-2005, 04:08 PM
#73
...but i just change the chip,chip if i want to run any injector size....lets see what weber ECU's can do...lets talk the daddy...P8
Super 8
Anti lag
Water injection
distributerless
boost control
Virtually any injector size
lamda control closed loop
Plug and play!!!
As said Autronics is fantastic and Mark is the daddy so anyone who wants the very top package go SM4
...on the opposite end SECS S8 if you want the crappest and worst back up service choose this....its cheaper though
if i want to run any injector size....lets see what weber ECU's can do...lets talk the daddy...P8Super 8
Anti lag
Water injection
distributerless
boost control
Virtually any injector size
lamda control closed loop
Plug and play!!!
As said Autronics is fantastic and Mark is the daddy so anyone who wants the very top package go SM4
...on the opposite end SECS S8 if you want the crappest and worst back up service choose this....its cheaper though
15-09-2005, 04:20 PM
#75
Originally Posted by chip-3door
The difference of course is that if it were on autronic and you then wanted to swap to 1000cc from 750cc (or whatever it was mapped with) or vice versa, you could easily do so, but on L8 you couldnt.
As its just a muliplier if you understand how it works then this is fairly straight forward to change from one size to the other.
But then i aint mapping......
If its GUI easy then its like UNIX and Windows LOL......If you understand it, its easy
15-09-2005, 04:21 PM
#76
PassionFord Post Whore!!
Why buy a PS2 when you can play games on a old Atari,
Why buy a Plasma over a normal TV,
In life you are always trying to improve yourselfs or you just stand still,
Fitting any kind of good programable Ecu will bring improvements in the package whether is be drivabilty,power or just plain access to be able to do anything that is needed,
Why go for a more modern Turbo, well time to boost says it all which means more power more of the time,
I am not a person to stand still, I will see some of you at the retro car show in 10 years time and you can bore me with how good your T4 is .
Mark
Why buy a Plasma over a normal TV,
In life you are always trying to improve yourselfs
or you just stand still,Fitting any kind of good programable Ecu will bring improvements in the package whether is be drivabilty,power or just plain access to be able to do anything that is needed,
Why go for a more modern Turbo, well time to boost says it all which means more power more of the time,
I am not a person to stand still, I will see some of you at the retro car show in 10 years time and you can bore me with how good your T4 is
.Mark
15-09-2005, 04:23 PM
#78
Mark - thats an awesome come back - now how dull is brunters
Surely its down to car and how it perform's...
One of the fastest cars in this scene is on a T4 and has one more compeitive challenge's than anyone with a GT blower
Surely its down to car and how it perform's...
One of the fastest cars in this scene is on a T4 and has one more compeitive challenge's than anyone with a GT blower
15-09-2005, 04:32 PM
#79
...i think Dingy is right the T4 delivers the max power you really need to be competative any more and you go backwards unless your talking top speed.
......the thing is look at Gaybirds Escos...making boost the same as my T35 and still pulling up to 8000rpm...over 4000rpm usable power band..and a straight fit as it was ment to go on a YB!...What does a GT30 offer over a T4..not a str8 fit ball bearings that fuck up with a grain of dust and not really great warranty have they?
......the thing is look at Gaybirds Escos...making boost the same as my T35
and still pulling up to 8000rpm...over 4000rpm usable power band..and a straight fit as it was ment to go on a YB!...What does a GT30 offer over a T4..not a str8 fit ball bearings that fuck up with a grain of dust and not really great warranty have they?
15-09-2005, 04:33 PM
#80
PassionFord Post Whore!!
Originally Posted by dingy
Mark - thats an awesome come back - now how dull is brunters
Surely its down to car and how it perform's...
One of the fastest cars in this scene is on a T4 and has one more compeitive challenge's than anyone with a GT blower
Surely its down to car and how it perform's...
One of the fastest cars in this scene is on a T4 and has one more compeitive challenge's than anyone with a GT blower
its not until you test the bits from diff spec's that you know whether it works or not, then its whether your intereasted in the way it drives and the time it takes to come on boost,
We are not reinventing the wheel but just trying to make it roll better
whether it be 1% or 10%.Mark