Fiecos Dan

After a year of problems,

1 engine dyno session,
2 live mappin sessions,
many nights playin with different actuaters, boost controllers, and head ache's.

1 shaft failure, and the latest wastegate siezed(turbo at td at moment)


The problem is boost. unless i use a 28 psi actuater, the wastegate blows open.
but as they think the 28 psi actuater was to blame for the wastegate shaft twistin, and in turn made it over spin and end result a snapped shaft.


On the last night testing,

with 20psi actuater, and 3/4 hole preload.

actuater pipe disconnected, hit 31 psi held 26psi held.

wastegate wired shut, hit and held 33psi to redline. full boost at 4000-4200 rpm.



Anyway, today i rang up td, and he sed wot do i want from this turbo?

i sed a reliable turbo, that hits 30psi and can hold it.

he turned round and sed, he wished he gave me a refund 6 months ago, cos its costin them lots of money.

so i sed i wished you did, as its cost me alot more in time, fuel, tuner costs, then it could of ever cost them.


i sed wot are you offerin?

he sed try it once more and if still a problem, send it back, and he'll sed it to one of his custumer tunest to test. he sed field motorsport have used many of these turbo's with no problems.

so i sed no, do it before i refit it, cos i fed up with bein thier test dummy.

in fact leave it, and sort out a refund, as i know i'm not the only person to have problems with this turbo.

then he sed, he'll repair it again, let me try it again, and if no joy, will talk to the boss about the options.


the end of the day,
its got to much back pressure, but as it now surges, i need a 20 psi actuater to cure this, so the only other cure would be a twin port actuater.

but as they dont do one, i'll have to pay for this.

my engine spec, 500bhp spec head, 509 inlet cam, k2 ex cam, rs500 inlet, 8 greens, 2wd ex mani, 3" zorst, p8 super 8.

fuelin at 12.2 in mid range, 11.8:1 top end, slightly different at diff boost, but average as 12.2-11.8 thro revs.
egt never over 870 oC just after turbo.
spark, no det ( on the safe side)
boost pipe system pressure tested on a few times to over 40psi, with no leaks.



Anyone else had/heard of these problems, (as they say i'm the only one)

also do you think i'm right, as the turbo's never done the job it was meant to do.

cheers.

sorry bout lay out and spellin, b4 someone says something.

cossie4i+

iTrader: (15)

Still no luck then

I will get to meet you and your car 1 day.

Steve.

Fiecos Dan

no, still hassle.


car not even got a box in at mo, due to it lettin go at the pod 2 weeks ago.

will meet up soon

cossie4i+

iTrader: (15)

I thought them Turbos are supposed to be good ?

Im off to brunters in a few weeks

Hope to get 0-60 in about 5.5, 0-100 in low 11s and 155-160 top speed.

Maybe im hopeing to much on the top end ?

Steve.

Fiecos Dan

good luck,

those times seem posible for your car.

well loads of peeps on here have had them, but seem abit on the quite side at mo.

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Get rid of and fit a T4. As you say the exhaust housing is too small and so you will always suffer from surge unless you map it out, which means that you are running less boost than you could down the bottom end with a T4 . At least with one of these turbos, it will sit at 32psi from the moment it comes onto full boost (4k with right cams and head) and hold that all the way until the limiter .

DazC

iTrader: (1)

My Dad's MD240R is now sat on a shelf in the garage!!

A GT30 sits there now!

cossie4i+

iTrader: (15)

Thanks Dan, i hope my car does its stuff

Steve.

Stavros

I did tell you to get one of them GT30s from AET months ago Danny mate

Fiecos Dan

yeah i know steve.

but td gave me a new one under warrentie, so i weren't gonna say no.

but as they keep denie'n its afault with the turbo, and i'm the only one to have this problem.
figure that?????????????????????????????????????????

but i'm now lookin at a gt 30 internal wastegate off AET, or a gt35, or a t4.

Jim Galbally

didnt stu manage to sort out porkies with some clever trick so it was ok and didnt need expensive bits fitting? worth giving him a ring?

alternatively sell it on ebay and buy something thats proven

Fiecos Dan

why sell it.

might as well get my money back as the turbo's never worked as they sed it would.

nor can they sort it.


i spoke to a bloke off he that had a md240r, but stu couldn't get rid of all the surge.

ps lee had a md240, different to my md240r.

Fiecos Dan

my mapper told me last night to stick to my guns, and not to accept the turbo back,

as he has always sed its just as laggy as a t4 (nearly) but with boost/back pressure problems. which in turn = higher egt's, and a restriction in power.

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

T4s ROCK!

Jim Green

T38's Rock Much Better.....

DazC

iTrader: (1)

The reason why it's laggy is because of the surge problems. You can't LET it spool up until about 4 k otherwise it surges it's tits off. That is how we got round the surge on my Dad's car. Air to air boost control stopping it from producing anymore than 13psi below 4k rpm.....

Jim Green

T38, T38

Not sure of your exact spec, and how it compares to mine. But just to let you know that I'm using Universal Turbo's version of the T38 and have found it ballistic..... Much better than the T4 I was using.

Basic Spec of my engine is 7.5:1cr, Karl's fully modified head and cams, grey's + all the right ancillaries, and have max'd out the greys.

The T38 comes on boost at below 3500rpm and runs a boost spike of approx 34psi and drops back to 32psi. It produces this all the way to it's 7400rpm limit.

It's proving to be a fantastic turbo, AS LONG AS IT'S ON A FULLY MODIFIED/PORTED HEAD. Capable of running big boost, (Same as T4), Comes on boost much earlier than a T4, and keeps it's boost pressure right up the rpm range. No tailing off whatsoever.

I'm no technical wizard, so all I can explain is that its capable of producing similar boost to the T4, but comes on boost so much earlier. (Don't ask me to get too technical, just give Karl Norris a call and ask him to explain it all as he built the engine).

All these 500bhp + engines are all good on paper, but if you only have 500bhp between 6000rpm and 7000rpm with no mid range torque, and not on big boost until 5000rpm, then what's the point. I'm much quicker with 420bhp and big torque all the way from 3500rpm.

Big figures sound great, but it's on the road where it counts.

Steven_RW

Wont 32 psi with a smaller exhaust housing ( im guessing the t38 has a smaller exhaust housing than a t4? ) be less air flow than a t4 at 32 psi?

RW

DazC

iTrader: (1)

Yes. Increased pumping losses over the T4 housing.

Karl

Yes the turbo that Jim is using will produce less power for a specific boost level than a T04E as used on the RS500.

Also worthy of note is not to confuse this turbo with the Turbo Technics T38. It is in fact smaller than the TT T38, but we have called it a T38 to allow people to associate the fact its bigger than a T34 but below a T04E.

Jim's version is actually what I would call a T04B, in that it uses T4 based turbine and compressor wheels but uses the T34 based 0.60A/R compressor housing and a modified 0.63 T34 turbine housing.

The advantage of this turbo is that it does indeed fit perfectly between the T34 and T04E, having virtually the same characteristics as a 0.63 T34 but the ability to hold 2 bar right through to 7500rpm!!! This give this turbo the scope to achieve the midrange torque and repsonse of a T34 but hold onto its top end power rather than tailing like all T34's do!

Whilst this turbo won't make over 450bhp it certainly does a great job for those people who want an in-between turbo. It is very surge friendly allowing full boost to be run very early (i.e. 3500rpm).

Any one who's interested either give myself or Vince at Universal turbo's a shout.

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Jim,
Obviously your turbo is not suited for Dan's application, as the MD240R is already producing 500bhp, so he wouldn't want to lose 50bhp , so as I said T4 .

Also, I think you will find that even on a 2 litre engine a T4 with the correct spec can produce 34psi at 4000 rpm - it did in my Sapphire....

Karl

Indeed as Mike says, a RS500 spec T4 can make good boost by 4000rpm, Nutters starts spooling from 3500 and is really away by 4000rpm. As such I would always advise a T4 for 400 to 500bhp applications.

Fiecos Dan

cheers lads.

No daz, on my 1st md240r, with wastegate wired shut, with no surge at all, and would be hit full boost about 4000 - 4100 rpm.

on new spec, bigger ex housin and comp wheel it surged between 3500 - 4200rpm and 20 psi.


i see your point, but goin to a t38 would make my car slower.

Glass Eye

td are the surge experts in the world of turbos,,it is there tell tale trade mark,,if it surges it was made by them ROFL

Fiecos Dan

but they wont except the problem.

spoke to them today, (or 'mano' rang me) they have decided (since i sed it needs a twin port actuater) that they will supply one free of charge.
but on monday he sed they are in mid design of these, but wont be for at least 6-8 weeks before they can supply.


i told him, that i would except the turbo back, if they pay for my labour to refit it, petrol, and the cost to map it.

as i'm not willin to put more time/cost in to the devlopment of thier turbo.

DazC

iTrader: (1)

On my Dad's, it was full spun up at 2700 but surged like fuck.

Fiecos Dan

yeah i know Daz, you tell me before, but it was on a near std head and cams?

TD says theres 2 sorts of surge,

1st is wen the turbo's spoolin up too fast for the engine to consum. userly on a mild engine with a large turbo.

2nd not enough back pressure, to slow the ex turbin down. the one td says i have on my 2nd md240r

Chris Honeywell

listen to uncle Mike
T4s all the way

markk

iTrader: (2)

im thinking here that you havnt got this quite right ? or ..... thats the biggest crock of shit ive ever heard !

Disabled Account

Kevin Sharp

iTrader: (3)

slap a T4 on it!

Fiecos Dan

well i've never heard this before either.

cos he sed you get one kind of surge from not enough head work, and 1 from to much.

he could just be tellin me porkies.


listen to this, they sed my 1st turbo's shaft snapped, cos it over spun due to a leakin wastegate, THATS RIGHT A LEAKIN WASTEGATE OVER SPUN THE TURBO,

wen 'me' a non turbo expert, has always thought if a wastegate leaks, the turbo will slow down and not make the boost,

markk

iTrader: (2)

Turbosystems

iTrader: (5)

fiesta cossie You might find they were refering to the waste gate actuator leaking not the waste gate penny

Fiecos Dan

no tony,

cos i test everything, also i was still runnin same actuater after they rebuilt it, and they tested, and preloaded the actuater.

as i mention before, they blamed the failure on to much preload on the wastegate shaft, ( was runnin a 28 psi actuater set at 1/2 a hole preload, which td surplied)
which twisted the wastegate shaft, and caused it to leak, 'and then it over spun, wen i was only runnin 28 psi, and with no air leaks, as i checked it 2 days before and a week later (tested to 40 psi).

Fiecos Dan

spoke to TD today, and they have offered a sort of refund, but not full amount, and the turbo back.



also spoke to Grant @ AET turbo's, he's given me a £ for Thier version, with under a week to sort to my door.

Fiecos Dan

a little up date.


TD have offered me 'ne on' a full refund , and my compressor housin (as i've modded for the actuater, and boost pipe connection to get it to miss the bonnet and inner wing.

but still believes there's nothin wrong with the back pressure ( as tom field and other tunest find it good) even tho i, and 3 other's have had the problem(inc 2 major tunest.)


i have spoke to andy, and grant at AET, and there gonna build up their turbo usin my comp housin, at slightly lower price.


so looks like i'm gettin thier after over a year of hassle, and alot of cost.

Antilagnos8inj2wd

Mate ive had the same turbo on my car 6 months now and after i saw urs i bought one. everyday i use my car it hits and holds 28psi with no probs and virtually no lag i have standard cams in my car might make a diffs but oh well

Fiecos Dan

wots your spec mate?

turbo?
head?
CR?
wot rpm does it hit full boost?, surge?

like i have sed to TD, i have no problem with thier service, as been help full, but just this turbo, i've changed the spec of my cams to wot they say is best, and still no good,

may be its my heads to well worked.

i think it would work fine on a mild spec head and cams, and with 25psi, and would be a real nice 450 bhp car.

Antilagnos8inj2wd

Ive got standard compression 2wd manifold greys proper wrc ported head standard cams and run 28 psi at 440hp allday long no worries to me but i spose 500hp may cause probs ive never had any surging at all