series1 ant

i understand the basic mechanics of both lsd and non lsd but what are the pros and cons of having one or the other. the reason i ask is im gonna probably change my standard lsd s1 gearbox to a diesel box which has no lsd. the basic info i have heard so far is that off the light the lsd is best because of the even drive through both wheels but cornering at speed, then non lsd handles better. is this true

any more info and opinion appreciated

anthony

Keith B

I've heard that said in terms of RWD applications but a FWD turbo'd motor will spin up an inside wheel in an instant under power on tight roads. For FWD and the sudden delivery you get from an RS Turbo I'd go with LSD all the way.

vroooom ptssssh

Cant you fit the LSD to the diseasel box?

can i also ask why your fitting a diseasel box out of sheer curiosity?

series1 ant

thanks for the opinions guys

u can take out all the gears i think and set them up in a box with lsd? reason im going for that box because its a cheaper option to uprating a box,
longer gears 3, 4 and 5th. my car got a hybrid and cam which makes it very laggy at a stand still but when its moving very strong against mid range and top end so this box will suit the type of power im going for. also got a mate who absolutely thrashes his diesel box with 19psi for the last year and still going strong (although apperently the mainshaft and bearings are no different)

also at 60 quid a box cant go wrong

series1 ant

up up up

vroooom ptssssh

apparently a diesel box is NO stronger. but at Ł60

wildheart

iTrader: (4)

Cant complain at 60 notes

But i say do it right,do it once

Get on the blower to Berni

cossiecrew

i agree with the above get on the phone to bernie his boxes are bullet proof

Jim Galbally

as said before, do it once, do it right.

you'll kill the derv box EASY with a genuine 230bhp

St3V3_C

Coming from you

Gaffer tape isn't doing it right Jim...

Jim Galbally

steve, i turned over a new leaf with the sierra... youll be hard pushed to find any bodges / half jobs on mine

altho you'll also be hard pushed to find any money in my bank account

series1 ant

ive never cut corners b4 this is the 1st time, my mates gonna help me fit it and yes ideally i will fit an uprated box at 800 quid but will try this out at 60 quid and see what happens, worse case scenario it blows up then i can fit one of my 2 standard s1 boxes until i get an uprated one. ill keep you posted on the performance and reliability. fitting next weekend with a paddle clutch.

Jim Galbally

eh? if you have a s1 box lying about, why arent you fitting that?

derv boxes are shit people only think they good coz so many people do it... people do it coz theyre cheapskates

and im pretty sure an uprated box aint 800quid!

www.gearboxman.co.uk

whats wrong with yours anyway? blown it up?

series1 ant

im thinking of it as more of an experiment. like i said i dont lose anything. have you had a diesel box before? are u talking from experience?

tonyturbo

worst case scenario is you go into a corner and light up inside wheel and loose and put that pretty car off yours on its roof. buy a proper box. if you have a spare 2 s1 box's you could have had 1 fitted by now. dont waste your time with a diesel box.

series1 ant

thanks for the comments guys, will probably fit s1 box next week and start saving up for uprated box. summer holiday comes first though . have to wait a few months before i can get one.

JesseT

If you want the diesel ratios, then use the diesel box, but carry over the LSD! Life's a misery without one. On the same go you can upgrade the mainshaft bearing to an IB5 spec unit from Ford.

Versus_Creations

iTrader: (1)

I have no LSD and also have great results without it. There is nothing wrong with the Diesel boxes! The people who say there is have either got the wrong diesel box, or just had back luck choosing a good one.

As said above the components from either box will work together so why not put your LSD into a diesel box?





Instead of buying an uprated box (Ł750+) and spending loads of money! Why dont you fit a decent box to start with!

MTX75 is the only way forward for S1/S2 will cost less than the Uprated box, will probly take more power than the uprated box (330bhp) and will only cost around Ł100 ish for the box

Jim Galbally

mtx75 330bhp? you sure i'm sure theyre only rathed to about 230lb/ft

series1 ant

now u guys are really messin with my emotions!! LOL

u lost me with MTX75. sorry not the best with codes. im running about 210-230 bhp at the moment.

Jano ur pretty clued up and what u say about them is what i have heard from people that have used them b4. maybe diesel box after all!! LOL

andre_k

iTrader: (2)

if youve got it read the 'gears without tears' article in perf ford a few months back, i think it was in the one with the top speed thrash on the cover... accordin to the bloke who wrote it (cant remember which company he was from), the diesel is no stronger than a '3i or RST box you can technically get a slightly higher top speed with them, but the have no lsd, which is obv a disadvantage IMHO.

id go with jano, if u want a good box without paying up to a grand go for an mtx75 from a later ford, dunno if the LSD will fit straight in, would have thought so... if you really want the longer ratios of the diesel the fit the LSD IMHO

as jim said most people who fit the diesel are cheapskates or they need a quick fix...

hope this helps


dre

Thrush

iTrader: (1)

You can fit an LSD to a diesel box yes.... But why do you want a diesel box? I pressume you know the myth about em being stronger is just a myth? they aren't any stronger than any other IB5 box, just have longer ratio's. That said, longer ratio's on a S1 isnt a bad thing as they have such short ones as standard.

Personally I wouldn't fit a box without LSD if it was my car - take a look at the difference between the ERST's and FRST's - ERST has LSD, FRST don't, and FRST is always loosing traction comparatively.

Preblem with ERST's is the driveshaft set up - one shaft being shorter than the other. Add a turbo to that mix with an instant rush of power and hello torque steer, bye bye tyre tread

Thrush

iTrader: (1)

The mk3 and mk4 escort boxes carried the "IB5" part number - thats the number associated with the type of box.

The MTX75 box was the box used in the later, mk5/6/7 Fords. Tho IIRC the CVH engined mk5and 6s still used IB5's with different mounts...

Whether an RST LSD will fit in an MTX box I don't know - never tried...

series1 ant

i think im gonna just see what happens next weekend. my mate had s1 for 8 years and he could pull one apart and put it together again with his eyes closed, . we may experiment and see what we can come up with. keep you all posted thans for all your ideas and opinons . all appreciated

JesseT

First of all, the RST LSD will not fit a MTX75. Then the IB5 only came around mid 90s and is an improved version of the older BC box that the ERST/FRST has. MTX75 is a better quality box than the BC/IB5 but then you would need to fabricate hybrid driveshafts to fit. Also, talking about diesel gearboxes, there are mk3/mk4/mk5/mk6 escorts with diesel gearboxes. Only the later ones (~95 on being heavy duty IB5s) have an advantage. The advantage is a larger mainshaft bearing (same as in 1.8 zetec versions) and 8-bolt attachement of the crown wheel (meaning that the S2 LSD fits straight in). A majority of the BC boxes have a 6-bolt pattern to attach the differential to the crownwheel so a S1 LSD makes a better LSD to move from a box to another.

Versus_Creations

iTrader: (1)

JesseT,

series1 ant

well i have a mk6 1.8 diesel box

So jesse could i fit this box onto the s1 with the lsd or will i need to transfer the parts to the s1 casing and bolt on the lsd???

boXXer

do you know yodi? cos thats his old mk1 in your sig isnt it?

Versus_Creations

iTrader: (1)

Mk6 1800 box has the same setup components and is possible to fit the LSD from the S1 dependng onthe main shaft that is in your box.

Regards

John Laverick

You could try a good recon standard box... I know lots of people seen to have problems with standard boxes BUT..

I'm running 220BHP and 200+ft/lb torque on a standard recon box [from a well resepected box builder in Huddersfield recommended by Well Lane Turbo Centre] and I've not had any problems.

I drive it hard and have done quarter miles runs as well as track days with no problems.

If your breaking 2nd hand/old boxes it might be the simpilest solution??

Or maybe I've just been lucky??

series1 ant

boxxer, yea yodi is my cousin. U know him?

depending on the mainshaft should be able to fit the lsd to the box and bolt on to me s1?

Oranoco

Nobody has mentioned the small matter of the pic ups for the front ARB/tiebar setup?

Do it once and do it right. www.gearboxman.co.uk I've only goty his Stage 1 box but I've been putting 265lb of torque through it for well over a year now. Longest I've had a box and I'm on box 13. Wouldn't waste any time with a diesel box. Only benefit of them is they are cheap

series1 ant

leavin the gearbox aside for a second, intially started the thread wandering what are the benefits of having lsd or not?

if nobody cares about that then keep the discussion goin on the gearbox issue lol.

Jim Galbally

benefits of having LSD... the wheels get driven properly MOST of the time

benefits of non-lsd... cheaper

boXXer

yeah, knew him from turbosport mate, and spoke to him a few times @ the ace. Didnt your s1 die? had 3dr wheels on it?

series1 ant

yea boxxer u got a good memory, car got written off by a lorry driver but had to have another 1!!

i know that lsd work better or more effective with the rear wheel drive cars but nobody has actually answered the thread yet lol!!

ok lets talk about the box again im gonna use both!!

Jim Galbally

ok, i cant think of ONE single advantage to havign a non-lsd box

i can see that some people may find it easier to drive without one (due to the car not having any real forward motion when on the power in a corner ) but silly idea
do you expect to get ANY traction with a non-lsd box in a 230bhp RS Turbo?

series1 ant

purely a curiosity question jim. im planning to fit lsd on this box.

Jim Galbally

why not buy a proper gearbox anyway?

Ginge !

ok this thread has gone wellllllllll off the point and got confusing alot here

take jesset's advice, a person whos done hes research and is sharing the results

the mk6 diesel box is stronger and has a taller first gear making the lag you are feeling a shit load worse than ya first thought, the good news is it will reduce wheel spin and there 60 quid each from redcorn breakers up the road from yodi's garage

the erst lsd's tend to be fooked anyway and most dont do there job as well tbh, dont get em cofused with the advantage of a new fully working lsd or a quaife

NOW a recon box from bernie is 450 quid with a normal diff and hes special touch, thats what oranoco has got in his, that works as he drives like a loon on normal days and abuses cars alot more than most people ive seen !!!

MY advice is simple, buy a mk6 deisel ib5 box, save for a decent box, you could go the MTX75 way, thats a good option but the inital out lay and work is a absolute nightmare and requires modding of ya chassis rail, and the S1 set up too, so thats a rare item and needs to be reconed opr ya will have handling issue with shit parts


if ya want ya car running , get a mk6 box, its a good box and i can honestly say ya not gonna notice much if any difference anyway