8pot

A chep airfield track day wil not have thosands of paying spectators. Dont get me wrong, I went to totb1,2 and 3 and will go this year but I can not see the justification of charging entrants when they are the entertainment. Without them...no show. Would just be a gesture of goodwill and in the grand scheme of thing, chicken feed compared with the gate receipts. How much will spectators pay this year?

Escy

yeah, i also think its a piss take. fair enough for the 1st year but they are making loads now.

if i had a quick enough car i wouldn't enter on principle.

chris-m

spectator prices- same as last 2 years

in an ideal world we could all enter events for free, it doesnt work like that i'm afraid.

however, we had already given the top ten overall from last years event (plus the main trophy winner) free entry to this year's event, and will continue to do so for the future.
rgds

chris-m

thats your opinion, which you are entitled to, however no events give all the competitors free entry throughout, even when paying spectators are involved, whether the event is succesful or otherwise, it simply doesnt work like that.

Escy

buck the trend then nothing stops you, you'll make enough money on the DVD's and ticket sales to subsidise the entry fees

8pot

So how much is it? So let me get this right, free entry to 10 cars as I assume the main trophy winner was in top 10 £850 "contribution" I think you miss my point on the entertainment. I think you should pay them.
How about the contenders setting up a new event and cut you out all together? They would make an absolute fortune and get back some of the investment in their cars.

8pot

What prizes are given to the winners? I understood these to all have been supplied by tuners etc. I must say, it was a great concept and a superb money making venture for the organisers, I just feel that greed may be the better of you eventually particularly if there are loads of blow ups as in 2003

chris-m

we already are bucking the trend!
by fixing the entry fees and spectating prices for the third year runing, and by giving the top ten cars plus main trophy winners free entry into this year's event we will not be covering the event set up costs thro entry fees alone, so will be subsidising this ourselves.
without going into private detail here, there are also other parties included in any split of gate receipts, and of course a professional dvd to film and produce.

If a benevolent sponsor does wish to help further subsidise the competitor entry fees then of course we'd love to go further still!

chris-m

do you think for instance the F1 owner pays the team cars to turn out week after week? teams put up about £15m each to enter! i cant continue to argue the same pont over, and if someone wants to run their own event, give free entry to all competitors (or pay them to come), and still run a succesful event, then fair play to them, they can do it and i wish them the best with it!

8pot

So if you did not give the free entry to the 10 winners £850, the set up costs would be covered yes? Therefore all the gate receipts are profit, right? There must have been at least 3000 people minimum last year prob loads more at say £10 a ticket, plus store holders rent, hot food....ummmm not bad going. DVD not self funding considering £15 cost?

Sure beats working1

chris-m

i think you'll find it is actually called hard work, for many people, putting such an event on. without over simplyfying whats needed to do so, i'd encourage you to run your own, just to actually see whats involved.!

chris-m

bed time for me on this one now!

i've emailed Mike R to ask for a list of entrants for the cossy team, and will post up details of any qualifying dates when we know them for brunters.
rgds

8pot

F 1

The relevance being? The teams would not put up 15 million if they did not think they were going to get that back and more in advertising, hospitality spin offs etc etc.

If you are happy to charge entrants and they are happy to pay fine. I think that as the entertainment they should get a split in gate receipts. I remember 2003 when a lot of the powerful skylines pulled out alot of people would not have bothered turning up. In all honesty, last year there was probably half a dozen of the big cars that 75% of spectators wanted to see.

Scenario. 2 skyline Ronnies, Simon Norriss, RC devs, 2 CRd cars couple of the quick scoobies all pulled prior to event, what do you think would have happened to gate numbers?

P.S I am happy to pay to get in as I am sure most people are(otherwise they would not go) but we are going to see the big power cars. If all the above pulled out there is no way I would go.

8pot

Probably not as much hard work as the poor fuckers building cars to make your event!

wildheart

iTrader: (4)

BLAH BLAH FOOKIN BLAH

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Why is it, in the UK, whenever someone makes a few quid out of a decent service, no ones ever happy about it?

this is why i think the UK will become a third world type poevrty stricken mess in the next 20years as everyones so against others making a bloody living

Phil

iTrader: (1)

8pot, feel free to start your own event if it is such a good money making idea! If not then stop putting the organisers down, they put a lot of hard work into the event.

Mr RS500

iTrader: (6)

Rod
You know i wasnt talking about you I was talking about all the others who have 600 bhp cars sitting in there workshops that have never seen the light of day , and probs never will
We spoke at brunters and i know you said you may attend ,,Good luck


ps, hope to see steve and porkie there asewll

Paul

BUK

IMO if the car has the big BHP and can compete it should be there no matter whats been done to it

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

I'm with Stu on this one, some people's attitude fucks me right off when they EXPECT to get everything for nothing. This is the sort of attitude of theiving pikees - they can't afford it themselves, so just either take from other people who can or expect those that can, to give them a free ride .

Instead, you should be thankful that someone is putting on such an event. I would lay money on the fact that none of the moaning whingers have EVER organised any such type of event and have no idea of how much time, effort, late nights that are involved - why the fuck SHOULDN'T this be rewarded with some financial gain at the end? I bet none of you lot go in to work for the love of it - cocks .

Ginge !

i work for the love on it

AD-RS1600i

If the top ten go free then that's fair enough, and prevents people with "800bhp" getting in for free. Otherwise, I have to agree with the above, £80 odd quid when you are providing the entertainment, on the day and in the DVD is fairly high, in my opinion, and no i'm not a pikey

I'm not against anyone making a living out of an idea, fair play, as long as it's not taking the pish totally. value for money at the end of the day.

Then again, if you have the money to build a competitor then the entrance fee will be small change

Great event, and idea i've been all three years so far! To think this all came about from an arguement between Rainbird, and Paul someone over whether 500bhp cossies were actually 500bhp

Ginge !

that true

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Next you'll be expecting the RSOC to allow free entrance to people going on track at Dono, as this is providing a spectating spectical .

Ginge !

mike i think the point was along the lines of the rsoc is a event for the public to enjoy, its a fairground for public, ya wanna watch cars on track ya do, ya wanna look at bufty cars ya do

oh and dont forget that the RSOC DO allow free entrants to the celebs to be on track aswell !!!!!

which i personally dont like as if i payed 90 quid to go on track and a guy who makes his money out of people like me buying stuff off him goes on track FOC i personally would not wanna go on that track

but thats principle, if i pay then all people pay !!!!!

so that shows that example aint that good

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Ginge you moron, so is TOTB not for public viewing then, or have I missed something? What celebs get on for free, or do you mean the demonstartion rides put on by Ford et als ?

I also believe that all participants get the DVD for free as well, and this year car clubs are allowed to have stands to show their cars, so is VERY similar, just without the concourse shit .

Ginge !

ok mike how long do peeps get on there runs ?

dont get me wrong i wont attend totb and have no interest but remember that national day is about the whole day and not a track day with a hot dog stand and club stands to park ya car to save walking miles to the carpark


totb is about the cars, people are going to see the cars !!!!!!

F1 is a bad example but they pay but the actual team pay to get money, its a business, this is a track day for people who pay but is a exclusive track day as such ( well not a track day but ya get the point)

there are loads of people making money out of it and the guys who take the risks of there cars dont get the benifit imo

the mags make money from it, the organisers and sponsers make money from it


i got a mate who it marketing a brand of water, they donated 4000 bottles of water to the starwars premier and got tickets for it, they orivided somthing and got something else in return

you pay 20k on a engine and then get told to pay 8- quid to enter, that only makes sence if its not all adverts and open to anyone not jsut the best

i personally think that pay for the qualifying ( at cost !!!!!) then the people who are the best get in free and also get the qualifying money back too


then they get something as its not a small thing ya talking about now , its a elite event and they can afford it

to enter a track day ya dont have to have the best car there do ya and its not a event to make money from your car totally is it either

are you telling me that steve scott and others on national day ALL paied for there track day passes and none of you lot got a single track pass FOC !!!!!!

if so are you totally sure ???


seems strange that there was alot of elite cars on track then and how comes they wasnt fords

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Ginge,
Obviously you have NO experience of such an event . People get 9-13s over the quarters, 28-40s over the 1.2miles and 38-47s over the handlings course x by however many runs they do. Given that at Central day, you paid £15 for just four runs, I can't see why people are whinging about £80 for all of the above (all of which is timed, so you have automatic bragging rights ). It is also amazing that the people doing the whinging have no intention of entering, have never been and haven't got a car that would be sufficiently powerful to enter anyway . No-one is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to spectate / enter, you do so under your own volition. Obviously those that do, think the £80 is acceptable for the kudos of being able to say they have the best handling / fastest accelerating / fastest top speed car in the country. At the end of the day, you pays ya money and makes ya choice. Personally, I prefer track days and think that launching a car like they do at these events is too abusive to the transmission, so have never (yet ) done that to my car.

AFAIK (however, I am not privvy to the internal negotiations of the RSOC ), everyone had to pay for a track space at ND, with the exception of the invited cars putting on demonstration runs.

BUK

simple fact is people want evetyhing for nothing these days , and that just dont happen, other people cant stand to see other people making money out of them. If its a registerd business which im presumming it is, why shouldnt it be aoud to do what every other business in the planet tries to do ? make money ? maybe they are carrying out a hobby, but so are a lot of tuners etc and people dont complainw hen their bill comes in ( some do take the micky though).

Money makes the world go round, deal with it

Ginge !

mike i wont enter not cause the car dont have the power ect as my old engine would have been fine for entering in a xr2shell and might have had a chance

its the fact on what totb is about !!!!!


you go the the theatre, they charge for tickets and pay the performers

the point of totb is the cars !!!!, with no cars theres no event, charging to run the cars and charging to view the cars to make money seems wrong to me !!!

im sure im not the only one, its just the glory hunters who want to enter the event to show off there car and its due to this that its NOT garanteed to be 10 of the best cars as others will say bollox im not paying to show my car i know does what ever to make another person rich

you talk about how many late nights the organisers have, what about the people entering taking days of work and the evenings spending all there cash on the engines

does that not mean they deserve some credit too, make money by all means but charging the cars that are making the event just makes it a non real event and also means that its just a tuners way of making money and again real people will not want to enter


im not talking crap either as what i type makes sence

you wat 10 of the best cars, allow em to enter FOC and ya will get 10 of the best cars


the fact is there only charging cause they can and after a few years less and less people will be interested and then ya get 10 of the best cars from the people wanting to enter then

next year when rods car does the top speed, he retires, does that mean the next cossie will be totb for that year or just a good cossie who won cause the better car never entered

new name could be "ten of the best money making ideas "

thats my opinion and its got fuck all to do with being tight, its the cheek of the fees

charging the last years entrants is just as way of trying to help them compete the next year and make the spectators of last year go to see who they do against the new breed

dont mean there the ten best cars though

Ginge !

tbh i think that the cars on show stands at the rsoc should be FOC or part subsidised then ya dont get the pikey cars like mine and a few others on they bring the tone down

i only stick my car on the stand to save the long walk and make sure its not nicked if im totally honest

again thats a good point as not all cars on show stands deserve to me there but ith out the normal cars the stands run the risk of looking empty

bit like the norfolk stand being people who attend the meets even though they aint norfolks cars

chris-m

our last words on this thread;

Pod rwyb events - you pay to race, people pay to watch you
GT battle- " " " " " "
USC " " " " " "
JAPSHOW as above
Japfest as above
Trax as above
Rallyday as above
RS national day as above
totb as above

all varying amounts to enter depending on the cost of staging the event, but they are all run the same way.


mike- can you mail me the list of names so far, i'm speaking to renton asap about a qualifier date.
cheers

RichardPON

What a cracking idea.

Will email the RSOC forthwith!

Ginge !

thats a event JUST for the cars to enter, not a elite to enter event !!!!
that again is not a elite to enter evenm i could track my mums 1.0fiesta if i pay the cash

as above its fior the people who want ton enter there car and not elite either

the events that want the elite cars should allow then foc, just cause its not been done dont mean is shouldnt

why not stage a new event for all cars to enter, they only pay for qualifying if they dont go futher, that pays for the qualifying and then the even pays for its self

seriously, look at the gumball, that costs more than people are being charged but cause they make money from the sales ect, they charge to enter as aslong as ya got the cash again anyone can enter


hope ya understand what im saying but lets be honest ya dont care as the people poay and ya get the numbers and so ya will market it as its all about money !!!

thats the bottom line and personally im not money biased so would rather not attend such shows

make money is fine but dont forget the people who are HELPING you make money, no cars means no show !!!!

imagine if car mags where to charge to enter the cars in the mags, wonder how many cars would be entered then

ADUSR33

fook ten of the bollox..im off to belgium to watch some serious motors

NIL 7090

when people walk around at ten of the best you can see them counting the people and thinking just think how much money they have taken today.I could be wrong like i often am, but do you think there is a touch of the green eyed monster.

NMS Badboy^NUTTER^

Well i would certainly enter again if i could. I thoroughly enjoyed myself. What does it matter who makes what out of it. I thought the entrance fee acceptable and was willing to put my motor through its paces on the day. I haven't got the fastest Cossie in the world, but was one of the four top Cossies at TOTB4

What's with all the bitching, if you think it's too expensive; don't go, simple really

I bet all those bitching will be going to Max Power live tho'

Ginge !

not being funny but anyone who enters that mentions they dont like the fee would be a idiot to pay it anyway


as for green eyed monster , i have no interest in totb, ive never even looked at the video and dont much about it, when i first joined it was THE event to go, proper cars, qualifying was free when it was started if i recall

then the next year ya had to pay to qualify as people who entering and not wanting to do totb, for that reason i understand charging to qualify

just the people who enter and make it as a thankyou shoudl be refunded and then run FOC, not the top 10 cars the year before as thats just to chain the event together, totb with different cars each year dont appear to be totb


so how does it work out im jellous, when people sugest ideas or mention something that goes against the way things are done in life are all jealous

its just my thoughts as to me the cars are the event, allow em free and get better cars that may decide to enter or people may feel wanted for the event and work harder than if they pay 80 quid and give it a crack

just saying what i feel and im sure the people who enter would like to get there 80 quid back

chris-m

i think you have it slightly confused, we have never charged for qualifying for totb, Redline mag kindly put on a couple of free days for the cossy boys, which the mag subsidised. thats probably going to happen again, if redline feel they want to do so.

the qualifying days at elvington are normal rwyb open to all days, which are always £45 to enter anyway, these are run by straightliners and not by Totb.

we try to encourage people who want to enter totb events to set a qualifying time, to ensure we get proven cars to the event, and so suggest these days as they will count for times. equally we are happy to accept proven times from any other venue, or from previous events at elvington.
therefore if someone has run a proven time already, they can just enter a form for totb itself.

Ginge !

im sure there was gonna be a charge for it last year and then nothing came about anyway

ok if thats the case i appreciate that BUT wouldnt charging for the qualifying thern free to the winners be better

not trying to sound like im sugesting my way is best but just a thought

as i said im not jellous at all of anythng to do with totb, i was thinking of entering my old car and was aiming to finish iot for last years but the mention of pay to qualify and then to enter put me off tbh and i never looked anymore into it

my post isnt about slagging off your event but just how t appears from outsiders point of view

just cause all people entering dont make em deffo the best cars though and im sure ya understand what i was saying, im not gonna sugest anymore ideas or keep banging on the same sentance, ive siad what i thought as a idea, i dont think its the best idea in the world and tbh the events are still going on with your way so i have no right to comment

besides the ford team aint got a chance anyway, cant we have another even with no jap cars then the fords boy have half a chance of winning