RichardPON

Well you've got to agree that it's very moronic to expect the person who is employed to drive the car to know about the inner workings of the vehicle!

That's like asking the telephone receptionist of a large accountancy firm to know exactly which tax evasion techniques are legal or illegal, and then prosecuting her when the company gets hauled up for fraudulent tax evasion. She might lose her job if the company gets closed down, but she's hardly liable!

Ginge - I don't talk down to people at all. In fact I don't read anything you normally write on here, because I can't stand trying to mentally punctuate the sentences

Chip - thank you

Ginge !

yeah but if she has the risk of personally being held part responsable im sure she would take a active interest, i know i would


aint that a contradiction in that statment ?????

theres not a part of that sentance could be read as offensive ????

It's Czech Mate

I dont think ANYONE has read it all properly.

If they were deliberately cheating then they would have been banned all season....

The decision has been taken that they werent deliberately cheating but should have clarified whether the'collecter' was legal.

So they dont deserve anything for cheating because they weren't, as decided by the court of appeal

Personally I think it's bad for the sport and the fans and sponsors to ban them for two races, a big fine and docking of all points would have sufficed, the fans have been robbed of some exciting racing now :-( Just proves that the fia were out to prove a point against BAR & Honda because of them backing the breakaway rather than protect the sport for the fans

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Ginge,
I didn't think you were negative, just workshy . You've had more jobs than most people have had hot dinners .

Why did you quit THIS time? Let me guess, you fell out with someone and punched their lights out because they toldyou to do some work?

I can't believe you would trick your poor old wifee like that, perhaps I should PM a link to this thread to her, so next time she posts, she can see for herself the extent of your "workshyness" .

RichardPON

Nope.

True, yes, and funny, maybe, but I hardly say that was talking down! It's an absolute certainty that most people find what you write difficult to read, because there's usually so much of it, and it's difficult to read as a big block of text.

Hence I said I don't read it.

RichardPON

So you're saying, in my hypothetical scenario, that the women in this company's employ should take it upon herself to snoop around and investigate the company she works for, JUST IN CASE they were doing something illegal, and also in case she was found to be an accomplice to any wrong doing?

Please tell me you're joking

Ginge !

i would replie but im too busy painting


actually mike i never hit anyone this time

i quit as they brought back a guy out of spite as the new manager is a arogant tosser who had a issue with me and spoke down to me and was patronising and a 2 faced lyer who could never give a straight answer so i quit as the job never suited me anymore

hence why instead of going into a job that im not sure off im taking my time to decided what i really wanna do


the main thing is ive never EVER signed on in my life and so imo that makes me not work shy but just hard to find things im sure off

btw my old manager offered me a job with him at his new store but the money wont go up enough to justify traveling to near southend everyday


cant sell me flat quick enough as ill loose even more money in the short term

as for decortating thats a idea my missus came uop with as i was working quite hard at my job adn got a lot of stress i never needed by working for a tosser that i never had th heart to do decorating as i fookig hate it

btw i could work with her old man as a decorator butas hes offered but that requires me to do a job i hate witha person that hates me and cant kick off with him as hes a fooking boxer too

Ginge !

pon again you aint looking at it fully, if you was doing a job that requires part of it to hold you personally responsable and rick doing a bit of bird then ya have the option to either NOT do the job or if ya do and decide that the firm ya work for is straight then ya would notice things that lead back to you ???

a mate of mine worked for a company as a manager where the owner signed for a delivery in his name, he wasnt that bothered BUT when he noticed the signature wasnt far off his and nothing like his bosses he made the desision to quit

that was my point

Ginge !

also if she didnt look and was then doing 10 years shes gonna understand she new the risks fully and was very unfortunate but will understand it was part of the risk for the job

if she never knew then its unfair

what about a wife of a drug dealer, he gets caught they reposes all of her stuff as ut was bought with illegal funding and she new about it no fooker cares, if she never knew about it the first words said by the masses would be she should have known about it and not its unfair

do you not agree there or would ya like more spaces between the lines

tonyk

What a read, we have went from bar and jenson getting banned to uninsured drivers, a secretary not knowing about tax returns, ginge leaving his job but not actually hitting anyone this time to him possibly being workshy and finally how he hates painting.

What where we talking about

Ginge !

fook knows but im not work shy, im on unpaid leave

RichardPON

Are you seriously telling me that a telephone recptionist would accept jail as a risk of the job if the firm she worked for was found to be doing something illegal?

Good lord

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Ginge,
Could I please redefine my judgement from workshy to just lazy . As I bet the ONLY reason (and one you have already hinted at ) that you don't sign on, is that would require some effort on your part .

Also, you thing that Rich is talking down to you, you think that your ex-manager used to talk down to you - you sure you're not just paranoid?

In the meantime, just to let you know (and that lazy fucker Dom if he reads this post ), the world is not gifted to you on a plate (and it doesn;t owe you a living ), you have to go out and graft to earn a decent crust .

Anyway, back on track, I can hardly see the point in them banning Button as well, as he is contractually not allowed to drive for another team, so just excluding him from the ban (and thus signalling to the world that they believed he knew nothing about it), would have had the same effect anyway . Banning him, just tars him with the same brush and HIS points shouldn't be removed for this reason (and the fact that the data-logging proved the car was never underweight at any part in the race), but BAR's definitely should in this instance (rule breaking).

Ginge !

if she was told about the risk at the time and was aware then im sure if she didnt want it she wouldnt take the job

what cant ya understand


if you found out YOUR job could carryna jail term if ya boss had his hands in the moody stuff what would you do

and if ya decided to stay and was in that situation would you claim its unfair


theres lots of gaps there for and and i belive most of my spelling is close but as i dont have word on the pc im not totally 100%


do you get my point now !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

tonyk

Ginge you cant be found guilty of anything by association. For Jenson or Anyperson, even a secretary of ten years to be guilty they must show that they had a guilty intent, ie jenson knew or asked him team to fit the mods to the car or the secretary personally commited the fraud.

RichardPON

Ginge - that's EXACTLY my point!

No telephone receptionist's job WOULD carry any kind of risk, as it could NEVER happen!

What fookin job interview would you go for where they say, "and just to let you know, if I break the law, you are also responsible".

Which links nicely back to disputing your ridiculous point that Button should have known about what was inside his fuel tank He shouldn't have known, because he would never NEED to know - his job is to drive the car, and not interfer in the running of the team!

Ginge !

no my ex manager is genuinly a cock hence why i get along with my old manager

i dont get along with everyone ( ask pon i unsure ) but if i dont get along woth people for what ever reason and i try to resolve it whats the next step to take


as for the world handed on a plate, everything i own was funded by me and my missus and nothing was ever handed to me on a plate, my missus did how ever buy me a erst when i first got with her so when i bought the cossie from both of our money for us both working that i class it as hers as i owe her 3k for the car

but then tbh she would never ask for it back as she knows she would have to take the keys from my cold dead hands first

its abit like when a old lady gets on a bus ( mike there the multi people carriers you may have seen holding you up in traffic every 1/2 mile or so ) ya offer the seat but in ya mind ya really wanted to sit down and read the copy of fast ford ( the poor peoples version of evo mag, we like to look at cars we can own with the contents of out bank account just like yourselfs )

oh and i aint doing too bad as i may not have a job but i got a family and got enough money in the back that i dont have to think about selling my cars just yet ( but the thought has crossed my mind but to start a business to lower the need for getting a loan which mean going into debt which im fortunate not to be in at the moment too aswell )

XRT_si

iTrader: (2)

I got along with both of those managers ginge, STILL not quite sure why you didnt

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Ginge,
Good luck with the job hunting or what-ever venture you chose (best to do something you enjoy, as you're more likely to put up with a bit more shit from interacting with morons than if you don't like the job on top of that) and do some decorating to repay your good lady for having to put up with you - it's the least you could do .

PS. Like PON says, please start punctuating your posts, it makes them easier to read and understand .

Ginge !

simon you dont get along with one of em and the other one i do get along with, i was talking to him and his brother on the M25 last night too btw

but the general manager is a cock and the reason i quot was the fact he never gave me a straight answer about the other guy comming back and so i quit and low and behold the other wanker did come back ( do you get along with him btw , he gets along with both managers and the area manager too )

as for my puctuation, flock it, i write em not read em

XRT_si

iTrader: (2)

Wayne's got a brother?

lol well i dont get on with the knob that came back, but if things go right i wont have to

Porkie

iTrader: (1)

Your grammer hurts my head and drives me nuts, but I have to admit thats very funny

Disabled Account

BAR plan to fight Grand Prix ban

Disabled Account

Ding ding - round two!!!!! (and I dont mean Ginge V Pon )

BAR plan to fight Grand Prix ban
BAR have reacted angrily after being banned for two races for running an underweight car at the San Marino GP.
The team said it was still considering its options and hoped to race in the Spanish Grand Prix on Sunday.

"BAR Honda is appalled at the decision and asserts that the judgment is contrary to all of the evidence heard.

"The team proved it complied with the current regulations and the FIA now acknowledges that the regulations are unclear," said BAR team boss Nick Fry.

"While the International Court of Appeal rejected the FIA's original accusations of fraud and deception, BAR Honda says that this penalty is wholly and grossly disproportionate."

The ruling, which included a six-month ban suspended for a year, was the toughest sanction taken against a Formula One team for 20 years

The team have been excluded from the Spanish and Monaco Grands Prix, and stripped of the 10 points Jenson Button and Takuma Sato picked up for finishing third and fifth at Imola.

I think it is a bit too harsh. But they deserved to be punished on the other hand

There is no further internal appeal process open to BAR, but Fry confirmed he is looking at other legal means to race in Barcelona this weekend, raising the prospect of a civil court action.

He said: "We are examining our options. Our objective is to race this weekend.

"We have some of the best sporting lawyers in Britain and probably the world working on this now.

"Obviously if we are to race this weekend we need to get some judgement from a court pretty soon, probably Friday morning.

"I think we need to get the car into qualifying so I think that will be our final deadline."

I think they are quite lucky to get away with that

Toyota technical director Mike Gascoyne on BAR's punishment
Ruling body the FIA had claimed BAR deliberately ran an underweight car at Imola to give Button an advantage, and it wanted the team banned for the season.

The appeal court panel ruled that there was insufficient evidence to prove BAR "deliberately committed fraud".

But FIA president Max Mosley said: "The facts are very clear. The team was asked to pump the fuel out of their car [after the race].

"They left 15 litres in the tank and told us it was empty. Under the circumstances, we feel they have been treated rather leniently."

Toyota technical director Mike Gascoyne agreed with Mosley.

"I think they are quite lucky to get away with that, in my opinion," he said.

McLaren driver Juan Pablo Montoya and championship leader Fernando Alonso both expressed sympathy for Button and Sato.

"I was shocked actually that they put them out of the races but that's the way it goes I guess," said Montoya.

F1 supremo Bernie Ecclestone was pushing for a ban

Alonso added: "We all agree that there are specific rules for all the teams.

"If you are not inside the rules then you risk having a penalty.

"I think Jenson did a fantastic race in Imola and he was on the podium because he deserved that podium in the way he drove. You are risking a lot in the whole race.

"When it's not your fault and you are out it will be a disappointment but I'm sure they will come back."

It's Czech Mate

Quite right too..

Nobody banned schumacher and Benneton or stripped their world title when they admitted cheating with the barge boards the season he won the title with them!

Rules for one and rules for another depending who's best friend with max

Smit

iTrader: (5)

And breathe................

what a load of dribble.........

rsjp

hi lee (porkie)

ive been to monaco to see the gp awsome mate just awsome take some very dark sunglasses so the top tottie cant see you eyeing them up ,we went into st tropez instead of going to the pratice ,brilliant just to see the blondes , it was easy to blow a few bob there but its well worth it

have a good one
see you soon
rsjp

Rich_w

http://www.fia.com/resources/documen...egulations.pdf

Read 4.2

(paraphrased) Ballast must be fixed so you need a tool to remove it. Using fuel as a ballast does require a "tool" to remove it. A pump or such like. Though its a bit more grey about how the FIA would attach a seal to it.

Anyway its all Political, as ever, Max wants them to sign up after 2007 to his championship. Teams have virtually said "Its either Max or us" so hes playing hardball with them for the time being. Notice how Toyota will get very little coverage this weekend, regardless of where they finish.


Work? He's on here more than you!

He wont need any help on a) perving women in far away exotic countries
or
b) blowing a few bob.

Lucky GIT

EscortWRC

This absolutely reeks of a double standard !!!!

The FIA approved the design of the BAR fuel tank prior to the season. They were also given proof that the car was never under weight during the race. The car passed post-race tech.

BAR still gets a 2 race ban.....

OTOH, in a game where dimensions are measured to 4 and maybe even 5 decimal places.....Ferrari has barge boards that are 5mm (or was it cm?) out of 'tolerance' and the FIA says 'oh, you must have mis-measured' when it was clearly cheating and gaining a competitive advantage and yet the FIA looked the other way.

This is getting as stupid as bubba racing.

Rich_w

Exactly. You only get 5mm tolerance from the reference plane. (bottom of the car) It doesnt apply to bodywork panels. Especially when the Tech Director says to the waiting meda. "This is where we didnt shadow the parts properly... it was our mistake"

EscortWRC

Competitive advantage outside of the rules = cheating, plain and simple

Unless its Ferrari....then it is just a 'dimensional oversight'

boXXer

F1 is gay, end of..... Bring back 500hp BTCC 3dr cossies.

Phil

iTrader: (1)

I got offered a trip to Monaco, but it's my graduation ball that weekend

Hope I made the right decision

It's Czech Mate

They didn't cheat according to the Fia

Disabled Account

Matt quote "They didn't cheat according to the Fia".........

So the FIA say that BAR-Honda did'nt cheat...........and BAR-Honda are saying that they did not cheat.....

BUT they are not racing (this weekend and the next race + 6 month "suspended" ban )..........and they are now on zero points.......

"Motorsport's ruling body the FIA had claimed BAR deliberately ran an underweight car to give Button an advantage at Imola, and asked for the team to be banned for the rest of the season"

UPDATE
BAR will not fight two-race ban
BAR will miss the Spanish Grand Prix this weekend after abandoning plans to overturn their two-race ban for breaking fuel and weight regulations.
A team statement said BAR had decided not to take further legal action in order to avoid damaging Formula One.

"Upon receiving the best legal advice, in all relevant jurisdictions, the conclusion is nothing can be done to enable the team to race this weekend."

BAR have also accepted they will not be able to compete in Monaco on 22 May.

"On balance, the team has decided that to challenge the sport's governing body would cause a level of disruption and damage to the sport which would not serve the best interests of everyone involved."

The team says the two-race ban will cost them millions of pounds and makes their battle to keep hold of British driver Jenson Button harder.

Team boss Nick Fry revealed that missing Monaco, the jewel in the crown of the Formula One calendar, means BAR will trigger penalty clauses in their sponsorship contracts.

"This is going to cost a huge amount of money. I haven't calculated what it is at the moment. In terms of our obligations I can confidently say this is going to add up to $10m at least," said Fry.

BAR say they still hope to retain Button, who tried to leave for Williams last year, despite the controversy.

"It's now more complicated and more difficult than we first envisaged but we want Jenson for 2006 and beyond," said Fry.

Although details remain confidential, Button is understood to be free to join Williams in 2006 if he is not within a certain percentage of the championship lead by a given point in the season.

With the BAR results cancelled from the last race in San Marino, where their infringement was discovered, both Button and Sato now have zero points in this year's championship and will sit out the next two races.

As Fry explained the decision in Barcelona, BAR mechanics immediately began packing their cars and pit equipment away.

Fry had fiercely criticised Thursday's decision to ban them for two races for running an underweight car in the San Marino Grand Prix at Imola.

Though BAR have now accepted they will not be able to overturn their punishment, the team made it clear they would not let the matter lie.

"BAR are so enraged with the decision that they have decided to publish their entire submission to the court of appeal on their official website."

They also confirmed that they will discuss the ramifications of the decision with their fellow teams and engine manufacturers on the Grand Prix grid.

"We are going to ensure we are completely transparent," said Fry.

Analysis: Why BAR were banned

"We are publishing everything from the court of appeal. Even though we are giving away some information to our competitors it's better that we do that to show everyone what we've done because we have nothing to hide."

The ruling, which also included disqualification from the Imola race and a six-month ban suspended for a year, was the toughest sanction taken against an F1 team for 20 years.

It means Button and team-mate Takuma Sato will return to action for the European Grand Prix at the Nurburgring on 29 May with no points.

Motorsport's ruling body the FIA had claimed BAR deliberately ran an underweight car to give Button an advantage at Imola, and asked for the team to be banned for the rest of the season.

But the FIA's appeal court rejected accusations of cheating, ruling there was insufficient evidence to prove BAR "deliberately committed fraud".

Porkie

iTrader: (1)

Got to agree race will be bore off.... but partying in Moanco is going to be sweeeeeeeeet. Booked a helicopter this morning to take me from the Airport to the race. Going to be staying on the Gumball super yaught as well. Can't wait

Ginge !

you have toooooo much spare cash, alot more than i first thought

i mean whats wrong with a chaufer driver stretched limo like the poor people in monaco

SS1

iTrader: (3)