Keith Hall

Hello i have a Ford sierra sapphire with a 2.0 DOHC which i recently put in,The 2.0 is in and i have spark and everything but i do have the injectors firing,They are plugged in and yet nothing,I have no idea why this could be i changed the loom aswell and im in fear i did not put a wire on correctly,There is 2 wires which are colour coded black,purple and yellow purple which connect from the ecu side to the right side of the car which im not sure if is part of the system at all.I know the injectors are all good because i had the engine running perfect in another car! Any one have any ideas?

3i Jim

Is the firing order correct?

steppy

How long have the injectors sat idle? I had the same problem when I replaced the engine in mine, the injectors had seized/blocked on the replacement engine, I put my originals in and it fired straight into life

iansoutham

Silly question, but have you checked that the fuel pump cutoff has not been triggered? Can you hear it priming the pump when the ignition is turned on?

Keith Hall

Hello,The injectors only sat for 3 months and had been working fine prior to putting it in! I put it into a 1.8 so there was no cut off in it so i just by passed it and have the wires connect,The fuel is getting to the rail tho! The firing order is good i think it started fine when i put fuel in the intake but it wont keep running!

dojj

iTrader: (3)

It's probably the loom connector near the inlet manifold

Known issue

stevieturbo

So this car has never run, at all ?

Do you have 12v supply to the injectors ?

Are the injectors receiving a signal from the ecu ?

And your post says you do have the injectors firing....I presume you mean do not.

costina

iTrader: (1)

Do these 2 cables have ring terminals on them? If so they could possibly earths.

A look in a haynes manual will confirm.

Keith Hall

Hello the engine had been in another car prior to the one im after swapping it into,the car had been running perfect! Now there is fuel getting to rail but the injectors are not working,When i put petrol into the intake it runs but dies out soon after,I have spark,I changed the whole harness everything.

ray barker

has it got a fuel pressure regulater on it that not working prop

stevieturbo

And you havent answered either question I asked.

Do you have 12 to the injectors ?

Do you have an ecu trigger to the injectors ?

Marcyg

sounds a bit like the crank sensor is unplugged, or your pulling a huge vacuum leak

Keith Hall

Hello sorry for my absence! Ahh the injectors have 0.5 volts going to them,But when i was checking voltage i unplugged the fuel line and when i first cranked the car it pumped fuel out but after a second of cranking it stopped pulling fuel? I think this may be my problem? I dont have the fuel gauge on yet because the 1.8 didn't have existing wires so i still have to run them but i couldn't see them causing the problem?

stevieturbo

That still doesnt answer what I asked.

I asked if the injectors have a 12v supply, and whether the injectors also had a signal from the ecu.

And there is no way the injectors should have 0.5v either off, or when cranking.

It is normal for the ecu to prime the pump for a few seconds on key on. After that it needs to see the crank turning before it will re-trigger the relay for the pump.

And if you've no fuel in the tank....then the engine isnt likely to get any fuel. Although the engine wont care whether a fuel gauge works or not.

Keith Hall

Sorry im only a hobbyist so i am not very good at mechanics! Do you mean 12v supply whilst cranking? It only had 0.5v whilst cranking? How would i check pulse?

stevieturbo

I mean a 12v supply when you believe the problem exists. Whether that's when cranking or other....you're the one detailing the problem.

But if the key is on....there should be a 12v supply to all injectors. Obviously this is only 1 wire and you test between this and battery ground.

To test for signal you'd either need a noid light ( basically a suitable LED ), meter set for pulse width, dwell, or an oscilloscope etc.

For lots of diagnostics where you dont know how to etc etc.....youtube is actually very good.
And Scanner Danner's stuff is excellent.


Although the fact you now also say that the fuel pump is not working whilst cranking the engine could point to a crank trigger type issue. That assumes it is actually priming on key on which at least will prove the pump can work.

Marcyg

The injectors should have a permanent 12v feed with the ignition on. The on/off is provided by the Earth in the Ecu. It's called a switchable earth. If you only have 0.5v whilst cranking you either got a broken wire or dodgy connection somewhere.

stevieturbo

Or he is not testing correctly.

Keith Hall

should the ecu be ground because i have a wire from it to a ground? I will check the injectors tomorrow because i don't have an LED now but i should get one in school.The Cranksensor is in place and the coil is sparking so it shouldn't be the crank sensor?

Keith Hall

Also the way i checked it was by using a DC voltmeter i took the connection off the injector and put the two prongs on the connection?

costina

iTrader: (1)

So when checking turn ignition on. Then check you have battery voltage at the injector plug if you don't have 12v plus check connections to ecu and any fuses relays etc.

On the engine loom there is a plug which connects to the main loom check these connections carefully.

Keith Hall

I checked the injectors and now there is nothing at all when the key is in the on position,The connections to the other loom are connected,The relay for the ecu looks abit weird it has slits as if it were an speaker?

Marcyg

Bridging the pins wont show if you have the required supply. One of th pins will be constantly live, you test that by bridging it to a battery earth. Yes, the ecu is earthed, from several different pins, but if you swapped everything like for like, you should have them connected.

Keith Hall

Ohh ok ya that makes more sense! I'll give that a go! So if i just have one pin on the engine it should work? Ya just by the door hinges and over the steering is it?

Keith Hall

I got 10.5 volts from the injectors while in the on position but whilst i was checking the volts alot of smoke poured out of the driver door so i look at it and a wire was burning up.It is a brown and yellow wire i have the connecter posted in a photo below

stevieturbo

I'm going to assume....hope, you meant something different than what you just said.

Because if he did what you just said...that would explain why he has potentially melted his wiring loom ( assuming a fuse didnt catch it )

DO NOT BRIDGE THE LIVE PIN TO EARTH. FFS. If you do this you will melt shit and possibly blow shit up.

As I told you earlier and the the video told you, you would test with a multimeter testing between the live pin at the injector and battery ground.

This will validate a 12v supply at the injector.

And again, to test for a signal at the injector, the video also detailed methods for this. Ideally you'd test for pulsewidth etc but at a push a digital voltmeter on DC volts should give some change in reading testing between battery live and the ecu trigger pin on each injector.

But yes, if you are getting a good spark, and seemingly consistent spark that would suggest the crank trigger is ok. But then you'd need to establish whether the fuel pump is on during cranking, and if it isnt, why not.

And you changed the engine, presumably you are using the correct ecu etc for this engine ? and there are no silly immobilisers involved ?

Keith Hall

I am using the same ecu and even the whole same wiring harness because it was easier to label and that! The only thing i can think of is the switch in the boot which shuts fuel off but i by passed it by connecting the wires?

dojj

iTrader: (3)

From the location is either going to be the abs loom or the heated front screen loom that plug is for

Marcyg

For some unexplained reason half my post is missing. Yes, it should have read bridge it with a multimeter, not a piece of wire. That plug you pictured don't look like an engine plug, although I admit it's been a while since I had one of these things apart. Depending on what you had before, there's either a cut off switch in the spare wheel well, or under the kick panel in the drivers foot well. From memory, if it's in the foot well, it's grey, with a button on the top, and is usually hidden by other parts of the loom.
As a side thought, your car, or the loom you got wasn't an auto was it?

Keith Hall

Yes it had a cut off in the boot in the original car but the one im putting it into did not so i bypassed the switch by connecting the two wires together! The pump goes on for a few seconds once i hit the key but doesn't stay on after that? The whole loom was changed even the parts i didn't need to change i still done because the old loom was hacked up!

Marcyg

That's normal for the pump to run then stop. It's a safety thing, the initial noise is the pump priming and pressurising the fuel til. If the ecu hasn't sensed a crank trigger, i.e. The starter hasn't attempted to turn the engine, the ecu cuts the pump.
One thing I forgot to ask, have you got the injector leads on in the right order? I'm running a 16v so the injector loom is in a solid rail that can't be swapped round, I forgot the 8v twinkys have separate injector leads. You can have fuel, 12v at the injectors and a biggest spark you like, but if the injectors are wired in the wrong order she ain't gonna work

Keith Hall

Ahh I hadn't touched the injectors since it had been running before so i hadn't swapped around the leads at all.Does anyone know if a 1.8 Ignition coil would work on the 2.0 DOHC?

costina

iTrader: (1)

Yes it will work.

Keith Hall

I finally grabbed an LED and tried it on the injector and it was pulsing on and off so now i haven't a clue the fuel is pumping well now! Starting to think its a poor spark?

stevieturbo

Then test for a spark.

Keith Hall

Ya i have tested it and its seems to be a bad spark it has a small white spark hard seen and an orange spark aswell so i think its bad spark?

stevieturbo

Get a tool so you can at least determine whether it is a strong spark or not, if you are not capable of determining that from a visual test.

eg

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Adjustable...cAAOSw-itXvG1M

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Car-Auto-A...gAAOSw9VZXOtfI

But somehow we've gone from no fuel, not running....to it's had fuel all along still not running.

We're getting bits and pieces of information, few tests that have been asked are carried out correctly etc etc. Which makes helping incredibly difficult.

it's very simple...for an engine to run it needs mostly 3 things. Fuel, spark and air.

So test that the engine is actually getting fuel.
Ensure it can get air.
And ensure it has spark... that the spark is at a viable time to allow an engine to run.

All easy things to test for. Report back when they're done.

The only other thing...is to ensure the engine itself is mechanically healthy, again enough to allow the engine to run.

costina

iTrader: (1)

Or could it be something as simple as getting the fuel feed and return mixed up.........

stevieturbo

It could...but then there would be almost no fuel being injected, plugs would be bone dry. The signs would be there.

But he said the pump wasnt running, now it is running....proper testing is not being done as he doesnt seem to say he changed anything that might now be making the pump run.

So we're getting misleading information, tests are not being done. Making a remote diagnosis/fix will be impossible like this.

Keith Hall

Hello quick update i got the car running! I dropped the tank and found a loose connection on the pump! I cleaned up the coil contacts aswell with contact cleaner just to be sure! It runs fine nothing wrong with it only ran it for 20 seconds! Just a quick question about the alternator is it suppose to have 2 or 3 connections on it? it has 2 at the moment but there is three connections on it?