As above looking for mobile engine tuner in kent who knows the k-jetronic system well having starting/running problems

 

What's the issue mate?

Is it a series 1/2 RS turbo?

 

where abouts in kent are you m8, and as above be a bit more descriptive about the fault and what if anything you have checked

 

Try HT racing @brands hatch if you can get it there, dont know if they are still there but had a good reputation.

 

Fault:
ignition on- 2 second pump primes, FUEL is present at metering head, fuel warm up and injector pipe on metering head (pic below)
As soon as it starts 2 seconds cuts out stalls....

The car ran before but ran rich and idle was a bit high and never dropped after the engine warmed up, BUT it did not have a Fuel Pump Relay see below

Things if done to the car since buying it in October:

New plugs/HT leads
New coil
K&N air filter
oil and filter change
injector cleaner in tank
2 replacement Fuel Pump Relays Purchased 1 original purple & 1 new Lucas, Have tried both of them as previous owner did not have one fitted he had Ignition live going to relay holder to constantly run pump and could hear the pump a little noisy.
Have cleaned the air sensing plate or whatever its called that sits with the fuel metering see pic

Any help most appreciated or is there anybody in kent that specialises in K-Jectronic fuel injection system

 

ilse of Sheppey in kent mate

 

it looks like an xr3i is that right?

if the revs are high i would suspect an air leak is part of the issue, does it have the start issue all the time?, i.e. hot, warm and cold?

have you had the co checked?

im in minster m8, no expert but ive had a fair few 16i's, 3i's and rst with faults and sorted them all, its a fairly simple setup and on a 3i is normally very reliable

 

also worth joining this site if you havent already

http://www.seriesoneturbo.co.uk/index.php

 

listed all faults above, NOT running at all, starts then stalls have posted above the faults and what ive done not done

Cheers for replys

Its a XR3i - MFI -

 

It was running with constant pump on then I done the above and now its like its starved or fuel, as it fires for 2 seconds which must be the cold start electric injector priming which makes it start then it cuts out , I'm suspecting fuel starvation fuel cutting off etc

 

Does it continue to run with throttle applied?

 

no Ived tried the throttle many time aswell make no difference

 

Whats the saying if it aint broke don't fix it, but I didn't like the previous owners live wire for constant fuel pump running

 

have you ever had it running? driven it?

if stripped down or left for long periods they can get air locks in the injector lines, theres also a non return valve that dies that allows fuel to return to the tank which also causes an air lock,
any form of air leak in a vacum, the main air hose or inlet will also cause poor starting and would also make the engine idle high

if you can make Tea i would happily pop round and have a look at it with you

 

does the pump kick in again once you start cranking?

it should do the initial prime when the ignition is switched on then as soon as you start to crank it should cut back in again

 

Well it can only be that you've wired the fuel pump relay incorrectly really. Thats the only thing thats changed between it running and not running...
If you fit a standard relay (generic or nick one of the yellow relays out the fusebox) and pop it in the holder in place of the fuel pump relay, then the fuel pump should permanently run again. See if it does and the engine continues to run etc.

If it does then you know the engine/fuelling is fine and its simply the relay setup.

 

Cant here it when its cranking over,
I was thinking non return valve,
The pump is noisy or was noisy with the previous owners wiring, last ran about 2 weeks ago, driven about a month ago.
When it ran with the previous owners ignition live to fuel pump of fuel pump relay (safety module) it ran rich/high idle like choke was on even after 10-15 mins idling when temperature hit 80c odd and fan would come on/off so that's one of reasons I took his wiring out and purchased a fuel pump relay,
Also the rev counter has never worked as I know that's connected the the fuel pump relay and speed sensing relay

 

Finally I'm get some replys on here was wondering if this was the wrong site I was on Lol

 

Even with a fooked non-return valve (or a missing one) the fuel pump would still pump through enough fuel after a couple of seconds cranking.
Rev counters on mk4's are shit at the best of times so I wouldn't get too hung up on that necessarily being related

 

I have run a ignition live from engine bay fog lights/fan don't know but its 12 volt ignition live and when I put it to the black/red cables in here (pic) I can hear pump running constantly.
But now after all I have done changing fuel filters etc, letting pressure out warm up regulator the car does not want 2 run with pump constantly on

 

I have also checked most of the wires for breaks in the above diagram photo

 

sounds to me like the wiring may be faulty, the rev counter wire is the same one that triggers the relay to kick in so could be that,

the rich running/revving is a separate issue i would say, but clearly until the relay issue is sorted that cant be checked.

its initial prim is all working fine so has to be that trigger wire, need to measure the resistance really but as a temp measure run a wire from the green at the coil to the relay and that should sort it, assuming the relay works of course

 

Slider I make a craking cuppa.... Lol

 

I bought 2 relays
second hand PURPLE ford original
an a
Brand NEW Lucas black aftermarket one

 

and I have 2 speed sensor relays

one is bosch 0280230113

one is bosch 0280230116 currently in car when purchased....

the speed sensor interacts with the fuel pump relay ( safety module)

diagram added see pic

 

The safety module ( fuel pump relay) and is coloured purple. Its purpose
is to shut off the power supply to the fuel pump should the engine stall or the vehicle be involved in an accident. The module senses ignition pulses, and cuts the fuel supply if the ignition pulses stop.....

Where does it get ignition pulses from...?

 

i would have to drag my drawings out and check tbh,
the overun shut off valve in a 16i only operates when the throttle is shut and revs are over 1800rpm, on the 16i it gets its +12v from teh ignition ecu whichthe 3i doesnt have so at a guess i would say thats what the speed sensor relay does but dont hold me to that,
is it in a garage with light? if not would have to be a weekend, im about this saturday and could pop round and have a look, sometimes just a fresh pair of eyes is all it needs,
it looks like you have eliminated a lot of problems already so shouldnt take too long,

 

Sounds like the metering unit to me

 

right ive just had a good study of a wiring diagram and the speed sensing relay doesnt affect the fuel pump relay,

all it seems to do is the cold start/warm up circuits, if the cable that is linked to the coil/rev counter(green) was damaged then this system would not work which could well cause the aux air valve to remain open which would intern cause high revs as too much air is getting in to the inlet,
the reason for not starting has to be mainly down to the pump not running as without pressure the mechnical injectors do nothing,
the fact that the car sort of starts says that the ignition is good so the coil is ok so by fitting a temp cable from the coil to the pump relay should make it kick the pump in,
as ive already offered ill pop round and bring a good tester to check the cables (im a sparky by trade)
pm me youre address and a mobile number and ill sort a time out with you

 

Heres a clearer diagram (see pic)

I cracked one of the injector pipe union bolts on top of the metering unit and there was fuel pressure present, I take it from what I have read the metering unit supplies all 4 injectors at once took a pic of the injector I slightly cracked open (see pic) also cleaned the sensor plate as it had crud/crap on it it moves freely up and down

 

By the way had new coil fitted as well

checked the supply off the coil that goes into radio suppressor and it was 11.5 ish volts after the radio suppressor before it goes in to main loom to the fuel relay the was something like 0.29 volts is this right ...?

Slider i pm you mate

 

they need about 3 bar (maybe more been a while since ive read up on it) before they open so without a pump running the pressure will drop below that quickly, its firing and running albeit for a couple of seconds so i would say for now that theres not an air lock, thats also why you will see a pressure at the injectors and metering head, the only one that doesnt need high pressure is the blue cold start one but that only works when the engines cranking as an initial boost

 

I have tried it with ignition live to the pump to run constant but it still don't want to know sounds - does same as relay in....
I take relay out when I apply ignition live the the pump...?

 

It seems only to be firing with the electronic cold start injectors bit of mist when that bit of fuel runs out which is like instantly cuts out

 

Try removing the relay once the ignition is on but not running.

I have had them before where the fuel supply plunger in the metering head sticks giving full fuel regardless of the flap. If it runs with the relay removed for a short while, that will most likely be your problem.

Done most things on these systems so if you want, I could potentially have a look for you.

 

I give that a try mate

 

Right today was testing the Green/red wire from coil = Radio suppressor = speed sensing module = fuel pump relay;
12.19 volts from ignition coil - green/red wire before it enters suppressor...
1.60 volts from after the radio suppressor ( a drop of 10.59 volts don't know if this is normal)
so I by passed the radio suppressor removing it from the circuit and it started and ran for i'd say 5 mins give or take a little lumpy - to be expected I suppose....
But if I tried to rev it with the throttle PEDAL it nearly stalled did not like that so I revved it by the throttle body cable and it let me increase engine speed, I was monitoring voltage and it was giving 13.50 volts from coil green/red wire without suppressor all time engine was running...?
now it wint let me run it again.....?????

 

Hers a diagram of the wiring from coil to relay...
also the rev counter didn't work....

 

above is strange behaviour running like that

 

Hi there I would try the ingnition amp on the dissy thy are quite common to break down and do no signal pump relay after it fires up.