nigel b

they are an older engine but still very good
k20 on standard 11.7:1 with 8-10 psi gets you 400bhp

J1mbo

iTrader: (1)

B, don't think it's just the Americans, the tuning world is full of shit, Honda scene is laughable!

gjh

Tell me about it!!! Hear so much of impressive times on drag strips in America then you see the actual drag strip and its more like a ski slope!! Gravity helped a lot with their times.

Beetlejuice

Compared to Santa Pod which actually rises around 5 feet from start to finish.

What's laughable about the Honda stuff Jimbo? I see very impressive things with them all the time

XRT_si

iTrader: (2)

Oh, I don't doubt that for a second Jim, but the Americans particularly annoy me with it

When it comes to quarter miles a lot of the tracks are downhill. Plus I can't help thinking their measuring tapes are off as well, but that remains to be seen

Here's a good example:


Or here:

And as for their dyno figures...

Mk4 Rick

That's really impressive on that engine

GVK.

Let's not get started on USA dyno figures, if it's not power at the wheels on a Mustang/Dynojet rollers they're not interested. They hate 'our' calculated flywheel figures too.

Fullflush

You can't argue with their terminal speeds?

I do think a lot of their strips are downhill. Not sure how much difference it makes, could an uphill track aid traction? They use fully prepped tracks too.

bassboy

Thats some seriously impressive figures from stock engines...

I would want more power if I was to build one though...so wondering, if I was to build one from ground up - aftermarket rods, pistons, valve train, cams etc (basically anything that would need to be uprated for over 500-550hp)....would the B18 be a good starting block or a K20...or even a K20/24 frankenstein hybrid thing lol

delbee1

8.5:1 is high for a cosworth pushing the RPM and power levels of Rods car and its been reliable, other than Rod taking it over the 8500 limit regularly to 8800 the WRC engines run higher compression still

From what I understand Jap cars can run much higher compression due to the engine's geometry (eg stroke and bore ratios), plus having the vtec means even higher compression because of the cams.....but might be totally wrong

Beetlejuice

Hi Amar. For that kind of goal I'd start with a B-series in either 1.6 or 1.8 form. Ideally a B16b from the type r. For only 550bhp, completely stock head, crank and gearbox will be more than up to the job. The first thing to hold you back (engine wise) will be the stock sleeves - any more power and you'd need Dartons or Abrams etc.

A friend of mine is currently running the highest hp stock sleeve b-series in the country at 553whp (so 600+bhp) and has run 70+ low 10 second passes with it so far this season.

I've rambled a bit, but basically to answer your question, for 550bhp you'll need a set of pistons and some rods. Everything else can stay oem Honda.

gjh

That is impressive!!! Is the B18 just as good? (I really fancy an integra you see), but I don't know about tuning as they seem to be pretty highly strung from the factory, does any N/A tuning really work on them?

Fullflush

Have a look at the size of the ports on a Honda head. You can get plenty out of them n/a

CrOwSoN15

Yes, they flow huge amounts of air as standard and there's room for improvement. Lairy VTEC killer cams and big ITBs and you're laughing.

rhinopower

You get stick from people because your a pensioner that trolls this forum amongst other things, points flaws in everyone else because you think your some sort of god.....

fordcozyjohn

hi my xr4i turbo was a stock engine that i put a janspeed turbo kit on and was 258bhp at 7psi of boost was a fast car and good strong engine

Fiesta_Jed

No point using vtec killer cams, just get race cams that still retain vtec.

Not seen anyone have good gains with ITBs either tbh.

Fullflush

Bin the VTEC if you are wanting big power like the drag cars

Fiesta_Jed

The reason drag cars have vtec killer cams is to save some weight nothing to do with more power, On a road car vtec awesome and well worth the little bit extra weight.

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

Your all talking about static compression ratio's when what determines the boost you can run and ultimately the power you can make is the dynamic compression ratio... This is determined by many things including cam profiles as someone did mention.

Two car's can both have identical static CR's but vastly different dynamic CR's, meaning one car will happily run 2 bar but the other only 1 bar.

gingerturbo

iTrader: (2)

Well said,

As said you have to take in consideration so many factors as not all engines even see static CR while running due to advanced/retarded timing

bigchez

can you explain dynamic CR pls? i'm guessing this depends on cam lift & duration combined with engine geometry?

gingerturbo

iTrader: (2)

When VVT comes into it and alters the timing either way the CR will change due to when the piston is on its up stroke as it hits TDC the VvT will alter the cams to make the valves either fully closed or starting to open/near closed which will in turn change the CR

gingerturbo

iTrader: (2)

Also liquids such as fuel even though you get a very small spray in each cylinder doesn't compress so that will add the the Cr not enough to notice but it will raise it

rsmark86

iTrader: (3)

Friend of mine ran 360bhp from a stock civic type r engine turbo-d

And was fine

mgtkr1

that will be the blue one then.

Beetlejuice

That's the one. Si's car - blue EG6 civic. Exhaust out the bonnet and covered in RDT stickers.

ecoboost

I ran 18psi all day long in my old mb6 vti-s (b18c4) and it had nothing done to the engine at all. The only thing was an oil return and an uprated clutch and a full remap. No idea of power output as never had it on the dyno but must of been close to 350bhp.

SiZT

Everything that can alter an engines power (bar ecu/injectors/remap etc...) in varying levels

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

As an example:

Take two identical engines fitted with different turbo's, one has a big fuck off turbo and the other a much smaller one, they will both flow for 300bhp yet the engine fitted with the smaller turbo detonates long before it can make the 300bhp target, why is this?

It's because the engine fitted with the smaller turbo has a higher dynamic CR, it's smaller exhaust housing raises back pressure and as a result the dynamic CR (temps too) making the engine more prone to det.

bigchez

Cheers chaps - so is dynamic CR purely down to exhaust back pressure or other factors too? genuinely interested to learn

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

No - far more.
If your interested to learn, then here you go, a 3 part technical article I wrote all about it.

http://www.motorsport-developments.c...AF265_tech.pdf


http://www.motorsport-developments.c...AF266.tech.pdf

http://www.motorsport-developments.c...AF267_tech.pdf

bigchez

Cheers Stu, I shall read & digest.