Got an argument with a guy at work so i thought ill ask for your opinion.

What do you recon will win between a old Mini with a 1.3ltr engine and a "stage 2" head and a bog standard 1.8ltr Focus zetec on the road not a track. Obviously the Focus has a higher top end so not botherd about that. Anyone use to have one?

 

Hard to say really.The Mini is light with a small engine.The focus is a heavy car with a big engine.

 

Focus.

 

Things have moved on what was fast in the 60's/70's is not fast now.
A Standard 1275 Cooper 'S' had a 0-60 of 11secs. I had a 1275 'S' with a Supercharger that could Muster a 0-60 of 8 secs. Unless an old Mini has over 90bhp it wont live with a 1.8 Zetec ( 9.9 0-60) . The non 'S' 1300 mini only had 60bhp & crawled to 60 in 12.9 secs as standard so a Stage 2 aint going to live with a Zetec. Before you ask I spend 15 years modding these great little cars they felt far faster than they were & were great in the 60's.

 

I had a 1.8 focus as my first car! I thought it was bloody quick!

Defo win to a old mini.

 

neither are quick as such, although the mini can take corners faster and being smaller can nip in and out of spaces in traffic easier.
the focus definitely has the legs though and a very good chassis for its class.

 

I'd blow the pair in a pug 205 TD...

 

The Focus would win by far.
All Focus Zetecs come with sports suspension from the factory so they do handle really really well. Plenty of grip in the twisties.

 

I had a old school mini up my ass the otherday!!! I only just pulled away from him! I hope that was not a 1.3 lol

 

What car were you in.

 

His escort cosworth lol

 

Yep, the Escort! To my defence... it did have plastic windows, stripped out, wide arches, semi slick tyres and rally art and number all over it. Sounded healthy too

 

my friend has bought at 1.6zetec focus and its woeful, its performance isnt great at all, and considering its fuel consumption! I hope the 1.8 will be quicker.
Go and find a quiet empty road and find out. It will be a good laugh. There wont be much in it, when your talking 9 seconds Vs 10 seconds 0-60 theres a car length in it.
Focus may have lame tires and need a service, mini may be running on 3, there is only one way to find out!

 

There won't be much in it, imo.

Acceleration wise my Grandad's Maestro was booked at 12 seconds to dash to 60, this is the same 1275 A series engine the Mini will have, his was actually A plus but it's essentially the same engine, so with your modded head, means more power and more power equates to better performance

To add I find multivalve engines to deliver there goods at the top end, whereas older 8V engine tend to favor low down lovely torque

Martin

 

Depends really, if its very twisty road and the person at the wheel knows what he's doing, it could be the mini, if its quite a fast road where corners are high speed, I'd say the focus.

 

Focus
.

 

My mrs has got a Focus Zetec and i wouldn't say it handles particularly well, don't get me wrong it's not bad but i wouldn't praise them up as highly as you have. My old Mondeo Si felt far more planted and gave me much more confidence if you were shifting on country or twisty "A" roads.

 

I used to have a 58 plate Focus 1.6 Zetec an it was on rails. I couldn't fault the handling at all.

 

a focus with non tired suspension and decent tyres will handle very well for a standard car they won plenty of awards for there handling

 

The focus would be quicker - the Mini would need a lot more than a "stage 2" head to make it as quick as the Focus - it takes a lot of time/ money to get power out of these "A series engines" (i had a turbocharged one - more potential than suerchargers - supercharged "A" series = 120/130bhp max turbocharged = 160bhp max (approx)) there was a guy called Visard that wrote a book about tuning these engines that became a "bible" for tuners

The Mini brakes are "garbage" and they understeer like a bitch - as others have said things have moved on

I was out testing a new/ revised remap on my "slightly modified" mk3 Mondeo diesel, so i was testing the 0-60 30-70 etc (speedo & stopwatch) - while i was doing this i overtook a Golf - it tried very hard to stay with me but i easily pulled away from it right up to high speed (70, of course!- yea right) - it was a mk2 GTI 16v - maybee it was a bit tired but they may have been "performance" cars in their day but not any more (140hp 8secs to 60, 24secs to 100 )

It all comes down to the driver though

 

[quote=m4tt274;6142793] There wont be much in it, when your talking 9 seconds Vs 10 seconds 0-60 theres a car length in it.
quote]

There is a big difference between a car that does 10 seconds to 60 and one that does 9 - thats a really "big second"

A car travels 88feet (60th of a mile) or 26.8 meters (approx 8 car lengths) at 60mph (a mile a minite - there are 60 seconds in a minite)

 

Its spelt Vizard . Dave was around in my era. I lived through its development & owned them in all states of Tune. Above 80 they started to struggle & any thing much over 100 was really going for it .
A change to a 2.9 & a Jack Knight box helped but it then lost its road squirtability. Any cooking 1.6 today would be far too quick for an 'A' series motor at stage 2. I prefer to remember them scrabbling for grip tearing past Riley 1.5's & modded Anglias back in the day. I love them but they are like me relics from a bygone era & past it .

 

[QUOTE=black_jack;6143415]A second is a constant, its a unit of time.
And what your saying is, if i were stationary the car would have (approx) 8 car lengths on me over that second.
If i too am accelerating, and have a 0-60 time (roughly) of seconds difference there is going to be very little in it!

 

Leave it to me i will let you know


On a country road the Mini would have the focus all day long if you bullocks to do it!
Obviously in a straight line the focus is going to beat it..

 

The Mini of you can keep to bendy roads and corners, the foci will leave you though once on the open road.

 

Yes, but whilst they are not deemed as having that much power these days, they do have a massive weight advantage, so in this case the Mini may have, say 70HP but it weighs less.

In regard to your comment re the derv Mondeo, as that has more torque, which is what really counts, especially in the mid-range tests you were doing.

The focus is renowned for excellent handling, it's said to have the best chassis in it's class!

Martin

 

I agree in princepal with what you are saying, and i agree the modern car would have the legs on the classic Mini

I had a MG Metro turbo, it had an A series engine (abiet strengthened, and with a turbocharger) and a Mini-style 4-speed box

A bog- stock Metro turbo will do 110mph and 9.4secs to 60, with a few minor mods it can be made quicker (mine reached an indicated 120)

Of coures that was the early 90s not the 60s/70s, and it has a turbo (and ventilated disc brakes(realatively) aerodynamic shell etc)

If i could be bothered with the knowledge i have now i could really make one fly (i considered a classic Mini van with a Metro turbo engine and front disc brakes etc at one point)

The Mini van handles better than the Mini (longer wheelbase = less terminal understeer)

the 6r4 required a longer wheelbase than the Metro and the Latest BMW rally car was based on the travveler wheelbase (but dressed up to look like the regular Mini)

So if the Mini had such amazing handling - why did they do that - Answer - it didn't it had garbage handling (terminal under steer) it was just easy to drive "fast" (never spun, never lost the back end, just ploughed straight on - perfect for novice "racers" a modern Focus would run rings round it )

I thing people are looking back through time with rose tinted glasses!