3dr

iTrader: (1)

Basically wanting to do some training.
Looked into plant equipment and Hgv.
360• excavator, dumper, roller and Hgv class 1/2.

All very expensive, range between £800-1500 and then required to do an nvq within 2 years to obtain card with the plant training which is an additional £500 each set.

Does anybody here do this for a living?
Does it pay well?
Anyway of getting funding for the training?

Any input would be helpfull.

scoooby slayer

iTrader: (4)

we run blades and scrapers, flat pay for operator is £10 hour, £15 hour after 8 hours, £20 hour sat afternoon and sundays, lodge allowance £30 a day or traveling at £10 hour.

3dr

iTrader: (1)

I assume you require a license to do so?

What sort of costs involved, do you get a red card at the end if it?

stevenr

Have you ever driven any of this stuff before?

It's not just a case of getting a ticket and all of a sudden you can do the work,it takes years to learn how to do the job properly.

I used to laugh at the jokers turning up on jobs with a ticket for everything and not a clue how to use the machines properly. It only takes a few minutes of watching someone to see if they know what they're doing or not.

I've given it up this year mainly due to health reasons but I'm also a bit fed up of being away from home all the time too.Been doing it since I left school and I miss it but I don't miss all the bullshit that comes with the job these days.

Sonic Boom

iTrader: (11)

The amount of contractor damages I go out to when 360 operaters rip out serives and ferrules.
It takes lots of experience and a understanding of whats in the ground to use one safely and properly.
Rich

3dr

iTrader: (1)

Completely unbderstsnd where you are coming from.
I have a very basic understanding for what's involved.
Having worked for a builders merchant and used a hiab on a regular basis I feel I have the basic skill set and understanding to go further.

I'm not sure there is any other way of gaining on hand experience directly without obtaining a ticket as you put it.

DixieTheKid

iTrader: (2)

Ive done the very same thing, if you can use a top seat hiab or palfinger, you can drive a digger. Exactly the same, you just have a bucket instead of a brick grab.

Dumpers are simple to use, your have no problem there i wouldnt of thought.

Dont forget your drivers CPC, more moneys the wankers are taking off of us!

3dr

iTrader: (1)

It does seem an expensive game getting a licence.
Fur me it's more about personnel gain then financial.

stevenr

The controls may be near enough the same but they are 2 very different things.

Although i see what you're saying it's not just a case of being able to make the machine move,it's knowing how to use it without making a cunt of yourself.

The only way to learn is to do it which you can't without the relevant ticket which IMO is a load of old shit.There are loads of guys with tickets that haven't a clue what they're doing because they think they know it all once they get a card in their hands.Being able to listen and learn is a major part of the job too.Everyday's a school day.

Fuck it what do I care,I'm clear of it all now.

tonysierra4x4

plant operators are very experienced people. most decent machines such as for example a 30 - 40t 360 or dozer like cat d6 0r d7 is around £150,000 to £200,000 worth of machinery. no employer would risk taking on someone with limited experience to operate one of these. working for a plant hire company i can instantly see who has it and who has not. anyone can drive these machines easily, unfortunately not everyone can operate them. hgv is a better option as in my experience roughly same cost for license, about the same rate of pay but a little easier to find employment and a lot quicker to become "experienced".

danielson04

Iv always bin told, best way to learn is sit in the middle of a field And start/practice there. Can't damage anything or anyone there. It's jus having that field and machine to do so tho lol. If your steady I'm sure you'll be fine with plant

3dr

iTrader: (1)

Seems a few have left the trade.
Care to elaborate?

There is no easy way that's obvious.
I'm 30+ years of age not 17, hence have a little more sense of awareness and respect for what the machine is capable of doing.

Would love to get the practice/experience in, but like you say, it can't be done without the ticket....you can't win.

tonysierra4x4

the ticket is the easy part. on a back hoe or 360 digger you only need to dig a trench with a pipe crossing it, either there is a pipe there or could be imaginary pipe. hit the pipe you fail. simple as that. anyone with any level of control can do it and those with experience see it as a money making scam, including me. dumpers are even easier as the instructor usually tells you exactly what he wants to see. depending on size of dumpers if over 20t articulated ticket is needed a training company with access to articulated rear dumpers is needed but still pretty easy. there are many training centres across the country so look into it. you can surely see now why tickets don't mean much compared to experience which you can't buy. i am mid 40's and don't believe you have any more sense of awareness than me. if you are currently not working i am sure if you ask you can get funding for retraining.

KregRS

On the subject of funding, if you're not working and claiming, you can approach the job centre, but its a fairly lengthy process. I managed to get some funding for my HGV, you need to be able to prove that the work/jobs are available once you've done the course (not so much the jobs existing but if you can get one of the jobs once you've qualified, not much point in them funding the course if you can't get a job at the end of it). There's a lot of factors involved as to if you get it or not. If you're not working its worth a shot, but don't expect too much, more often than not they turn it down.

3dr

iTrader: (1)

Will look into it.
I was hoping to diesel to my former employer who helped with my hiab licence and see if theres any incentives.

baba

Ive tickets for/and operated various plant and one thing il say is i wouldnt be forking out alot of money getting tickets unless i had an employer willing to start me.As stated the tickets are the easy bit actually being good at it takes time and the industry isnt as strong as it once was so there are experienced operators out there unemployed now.
But its def a good thing to learn if you have a job lined up.

baba

Thats exactly what i did when i was 12 started full time on a wheeled digger at 16 as said its a catch 22 really as you need experience to do the job but nobody will give you a job unless youve experience.I grew up around a farm so i had the chance to learn.

pauly.22

could always do an ipaf course on 3a and 3b mobile lifts and booms.

hss do the courses, my firm sent me on one, only half a day course,

Paul.

3dr

iTrader: (1)

Hi pauly
Any more details in terms of cost of training, job salary etc

pauly.22

http://www.hsstraining.com/browse-su...f=101_IPAF_010

cant see it costing more than £300

at a guess i'd think a job would pay £9-£10 per hour

not a massive wage but if you want to get some money together without too much outlay could be worth it.

Hobomassiv

Ive operated a 23 tonne 360 with 8 people sitting in the bucket at the age of 18, no tickets, nothing. Literally 20 minutes of training and a peice of paper!

Operating one is EASY - doing it well is not.

For example getting a level dig on a trench requires precise movements of two controls.

3dr

iTrader: (1)

This is the thing. I know many people who operate and have never gone for training or passed a test.
yet they are experienced and god at what they do.

The only training was hands on, on site.

Do you have to have a licence by law to operate this machinery?

tonysierra4x4

you don't usually need a ticket unless you are going on a large site. the firm i work with go into local oil refineries and every driver is checked out. normal building site that needs a digger like jcb 3 series probably won't.

3dr

iTrader: (1)

Well done some inquiring this morning and can't believe the cost of some of the training.

Also some of the the legislation is ridiculous.

stevenr

I'd say the best thing to do is see if you can get a start as a labourer on a big site somewhere
and gain a bit of experience,get a shot here and there.That's how I started of when I left school at 16 but growing up on a small farm I had been driving machines since I could walk anyway.All my tickets were then paid for by a company I used to work for.

If you get in with a decent company they'll pay for your training but you would need to get yourself up to a decent level of skill before they would do that I'd imagine.

3dr

iTrader: (1)

Stevenr are you currently a plant operator?
If do what do you use? Do you work for a company?
What's trade like at the moment?

Wull79

i work for a plant hire, civils and demolition company and everywhere is really clamping down on people with no tickets.

I would go down the route stevenr has mentioned try and get your foot in the door with a company as a labourer not the best but gets u in the enviroment and there is a good chance of gaining tickets and experience on mini diggers and stuff that weighs under 8 tonne lets u learn the trade as such.

Another option is the waste industry plenty plant used in that loading power screens and crushers etc

stevenr

I was on a Telehandler up until the end of October,employed by a civil engineering company and a 14 tonne 360 digger for a while before that.

I also have a few more tickets for dumpers and rollers etc.Spent time on tractors and dump trailers too.

I've now left the trade for various reasons,health being the main one.I was offered another job that would make life a lot easier for me at the moment so i took the chance.I'll be back in a cab doing stupid hours when health allows though I would imagine.

Beach

Its something that has always been one of those things i loved, one of those things i longed to do. Tractors, diggers, dozers and 360's as a young lad i couldnt get enough

At a track one day i met this chap called Adam who was also riding a quad, we hit it off like we had been mates all our lives, i then find out he is a machine driver for a company called X+P up north. A very good one at that, New Holland took him to compete in the European digger finals and he came 3rd!!! Not bad eh

So we were at our track which adam built using his little 1.5 tonne machine and he was like ''hey Chris, why don't you have a go'' and off course i responded with ''for sure, i'd love a go'.....

One of the hardest things i have ever done, he makes it look easy the machine and him are one. I found it hard, something like these lot have said. Some folk are just made to do it. If you are one of them it wont be a problem

All i can say is it made me realise im far better at the job i do now, as much as id love to drive a digger think id be pissing in the wind. There is also so many other people out there with the relevant tickets and experience its a hard trade to get yourself started into!!

Good luck, wish id done it when i left school and also became one with the machine!! Its an art form

T4onYB

iTrader: (1)

I run a demolition business with my brothers and have 60 employees at last count and without experience I would not risk putting any fresh driver in charge or a wrecking ball / crane or tipper, I would take someone on willing to learn and grow with the company as long as they are patient and work their way up under supervision but they would not be on premium rate until I see they are fit for purpose, the building trade is in crisis no matter what the news says as builders and plumbers etc are all scratching around for work so attracting fresh blood in the industry is hard as hardly anyone in this field is recruiting

booner999

I used to drive a 14t Volvo 360, had access to a 3CX and loads of smaller stuff.
My dad has ran plant since he was 14 years old
My brother started in plant driving and is now high up in civil engineering.

I have seen loads, and I mean loads of dicks jump up in machines and try to drive them.

VERY dangrous pieces of kit! One wrong move and you have killed someone, no questions asked. You do not turn up and have a off day. They end in serious injury. You have to take it serious as soon as your in that cab.

As for the above and dumpers being easy to use, yes they are simple pieces of equipment, but get it wrong and again your or someone else is died. We used to have 10t dumpers and when loaded, a serious chunk of weight flying down the road/track... Anyone caught fu4king around was off the machine, depending how bad they was, they got sacked. End off. No questions asked.

We had a lad who went down a field in a 6t dumper trying to copy another lad who was more experienced, he went down in 4th foot flat to the floor loaded. I seen him coming backup and he looked sheedish, asked what happen and he said he hit a dump, thrown out of the seat, hit his heat on the roll bar and just managed to grab the back of the seat and pull himself back on.

The same lad who was always going on about driving the excavators seen our 8t slew sat idle and thought he would park it up. My god didnt he get a bollocking! I remember speaking with him after and because he lifted the arm 1 ft off the floor and tracked it up a field he thought he could master it and was off to hire a 3/4 t slew for his house work!!! Annoying thing, they hired it to him!

One thing I will say, driving bigger machines is easier than small stuff. But you hit someone in a 3/4t machine and they more than likely walk away, you hit them in a 14t machine and you bury them into the ground!

As said above, machines are very expensive! My brothers boss just bought 5 new cat machines. They all come with apps that monitor what the machine is doing, what revs, what the pump is doing etc etc. So gone have the days of just sitting in the cab with the engine running building up the hours (seen loads of people do this)

A hiab and a slew are miles a part! Controls are not even close unless using the servo version of a hiab.


Anyone can get in and push the levers around for a bit and get the hang of it, the art is positioning the machine, getting it level, knowing how to dig certain positions etc. All down to time spent on a machine.

Also, with regards to your ticket... I know for a fact my dad and brother had to keep a log and get this signed by management etc for the time spent and what jobs they did in a machine, I think it was a green passport or something.. then you move to red, or the otherway round. Eitherway, your only going to get a full license by finding someone to employe you.

3dr

iTrader: (1)

The don, bonet. Thanks for the input guys nice to get an insight.

I have an assessment to attend tomorrow prior to official training so shall make the most of that.

Thankfully have a good friend who runs his own plant hire/demolition company and has kindly offers to help me out.

booner999

Time on seats is what you need bud. Go extreamly careful. Be very cautious where you have to and forget speed, when out in an open field being a dirt dog on a pile then go for it but around buildings or people you have to watch yourself.

3dr

iTrader: (1)

Went In for an assessment yesterday.
Roller and dumper should not be an issue.

360 excavator is defo an art form, will take allot of practice before I can even consider going for a test.

3dr

iTrader: (1)

Would the controls be the same on all diggers regardless of what tonne they are?

Anybody know of any cheap mini diggers for sale?

stevenr

Pretty much the same unless you get an old dinosaur.

JCB 3CX etc is a different thing altogether too unless someone's spec'd it with the 360 controls.

If you're planning what I think you're planning it's a good idea but just remember you also need to learn how to go about everyday tasks as well as just working the levers,if you can find someone that does it for a living to show you once you master what the levers do you'll get on better.

It's difficult to explain in writing here but I'm sure other drivers will know what I mean.

booner999

As said, most 3CX's come with the X controls, I have seen a couple with + Controls which make it alot easier to drive. Cat wheeled diggers (or the newer stuff) comes with Servo controls I am sure as standard. The 3CX wont, maybe on the brand new stuff they will but my old man has a 58 plate top spec one with all the toys and this doesnt have it.

Most slews have servo now, as said above, unless you are driving a really old machine, we are talking late 80's.

You have to master the controls in general first, then you have to get used to a machine, they are like cars or people, all of them are different, some suck the boom in quicker etc and can catch you out, we found the Volvo 14t was so quick on the boom in that if you didnt know what you was doing could easaly pull 1.5 ton of dirt and throw it straight through the cab! Driver would be dead.

Smaller stuff is very easy to tip, driving over a brick is enough if your unlucky. Bigger stuff is harder, but worse when it goes.

This might sound odd, but why dont you try going to something like digger land and sitting on one of there machines for a bit and have a better feel of it, will only be a 1.5 ton machine. Failing that, get a job and work up to it, start as a groundsman, would benifit you no end, because machine drivers need to know how it all happens, they are the one lifting stuff in etc or digging trenches for it all.

Also do not be affraid to get out of the machine and muck in on the shovel with the guys, they will respect you for this.

When you get good, you will find 99% of the stuff can be done on the machine with 1% hand digging, you just have to be good. I got a little video of my brother driving a hired machine.

3dr

iTrader: (1)

Thanks lads, I hear you both loud and clear.

Due to my circumstances I think the best way forward for me is to purchase a machine and get the practice in during hours that suit me best. Once im comfortable, I can then look to gaining actual work experiance.

Im self employed hence heavily committed with current work load, hence no time to seek another job and start from the bottom as such.

On the look out for a cheap 360 excavator now.
(digger land is miles away, so thats a no )

booner999

careful buying plant... Plant is really bad with being stolen etc.

Check the slew ring, pump, engine etc.

I would try seeing a local farmer or builder and ask him if you can use his machine in the yard or something if you give him diesel and some beer tokens.

3dr

iTrader: (1)

Yes stolen goods is a concern.
I would rather have my own macine as that way im my own boss and dont have to worry about damaging somebodies tools etc,.

Ive asked a friend to help me out which he has kindly agreed to, but we are miles apart.