Northants Ford Fan

Hi guys, just a quick question if you mot a car thats already got a mot and it fails does it invaildate the old one ?
as im looking to sell a car and its got a few months mot so was looking to put 12monhts on if it dont cost to much to do.

studabear

It doesn't cancel the existing ticket, but you could possibly get done for driving a car with known defects, its a bit of a grey area tbh

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Old MOT is still valid, but if you had an accident having just been told that your car has a major fault, your insurance company could claim you havent kept the car roadworthy which is a condition in all policies IIRC, but then they still could claim that even if you didnt just fail an MOT.

If you think its got a good chance of passing, its worth putting it in I reckon.

Northants Ford Fan

cheers guys,
thats what i was hoping to hear, if it was that dangerous I would get it fixed before I sell it as I aint that much of a c**t.

creator

I didnt think an mot ment the car is road worthy anyway?

Chip

iTrader: (3)

It just says it passes some tests, it doesnt guarentee it doesnt have faults not covered by those tests, so definately not a guarentee of road worthyness.

RS2000CUSTOM

Correct

An MOT is only "valid" at the time it was tested and should not be used by a potential buyer of a vehicle as "proof of its roadworthyness".

VOSA will not investigate an MOT appeal after the vehicle has covered more than a 100 mile form the time of test or 1 month since test (whichever is sooner)

The only exception is an appeal regarding corrosion - this will be investigated upto 3 months after time of test.

tee-rex

Sorry fella's your all wrong if you present a car for an mot and it fails even with 4 months test still to run you loose any unused time and the car can only be driven away to a place of repair.
Its a myth that you can test a car early and if it fails carry on driving on the old test certificate, every test carried out will generate a new test number and all old test numbers are then obsolete.
however if you test a car with 30 days or less still to run and the car passes the extra days will be added on automatically.
Quite a few people fall into this trap as they still have the old certificate but it shows on dvla the car has no mot, The only way round it is to ask the mot station for a pre mot and not to generate any paperwork via the mot computer this way the test is still valid to the expiry date.

CossieRich

iTrader: (1)

Nice bit of info that tee-rex

mechanic28

iTrader: (5)

sorry matey your wrong a fail does not get rid of any current pass certificate

scoooby slayer

iTrader: (4)

im also sure the above is true i seem to remember something similar with one of my cars years ago, either way if it isnt the rules it should be.

tee-rex

maybe you could let vosa know this as the mot seminar i went on earlier this year this was one of the topics discussed as there seems to be a little confusion amongst people on this, from the horses mouth so to speak.
Every new test has its own unique test number and always superseeds any previous test, the mot test is set at 12 months that is the maximum if you present a vehicle that is not roadworthy earlier than that it fails from that date and likewise unless it was within the last 30 days till expiry the new test would start from the day presented regardless of wether it had say 10 months remaining.
If you are a tester have a look on the vts under scheme proceedures.

YOREVOL

yup i am in full agreement with tee-rex a fail invalidates any current certificate as the car is unroadworthy. we asked this question years ago when i worked for a large car supermarket and we were required to road test all cars after inspection even with a fail sheet. vosa insisted that the mot was invalid as the car was unroadworthy. sounds silly but even a bulb inop can cause unroadworthyness.

mechanic28

iTrader: (5)

I can promise u your pass is not invalid if u present a car for a test and it fails before your pass expire date,I have been on a refresher course couple months ago and I asked this very question as I too thought it made your pass certificate invalid but its not the case

fuzzy

strange how 2 different testers who have both been on recent courses have different ideas as to whats the truth.
what chance is there for mere us mortals to undertand how it works.

tee-rex

No offence I am not going to get into a pissing contest with you maybe you had crossed wires at your refresher course.
you are basically saying that present a car with 6 months test and it fails take no notice of that because you don't want to hear that and carry on driving with the original test regardless of the vehicle condition, but if it passes you get 12 months test good thats a win win then.
so if you then look on the vehicle history check for that vehicle which holds everthing passes, fails, advisories, in chronological order where does the failure that you say does not count fit in?
next you will be saying that if you get a pg9 prohibition and you fail that you can carry on driving on the original test.
The hole is getting deeper.

Teej

Correct, NT 17 years, and had a refresher last year and last week attended a AE course, if your car fails but has a current test certificate then it does'nt cancel it, the previous certificate is still valid.

Although you can still be in trouble for knowingly driving a defective vehicle if it fails

A MOT test does'nt mean the vehicle is roadworthy, it means the vehicle has met the minimum acceptable environmental and road safety standards required .It doesn’t mean that the vehicle is roadworthy for the length of time the certificate is valid. The MOT certificate is also no guarantee of the general mechanical condition of your vehicle.

St3V3_C

AFAIK, the current MOT is still valid, unless you get a 'don't drive it' report.

Reason being, it may fail on something that is actually OK now, and for a few months, but not likely to last 12 months.

fuzzy

^^ that doesnt make sense to me.an mot is only for failings at the time its tested and not for something that might go wrong within the next year.if its within limits at the time its tested it passes if its near the limits its an advisory .
i dont get why the current mot would still be valid as long as you dont drive it. what would be the point in that?
im only a site manager/joiner though.

tee-rex

Interesting you also think that the test stands, i can tell you why it should not stand i.e. vehicle has defects and does not meet the minimum standards hence the failure to most people i think that would be commom sense.
any chance you could tell me the reasoning behind why the failure does not count yet still has a test number and it would seem to get recorded i thought i was pretty clued up on mot's maybe i am wrong.

trev1964

Read on a thread that Vosa replied to an email on this question.
They said the previous mot is still valid.
Buggered if I can find it again though...
Will do another search.

St3V3_C

OK, so take a CV boot. Slight split and it will fail. Problem today? Hell no, just a bit messy when the grease comes out.

Let it perish and get a stone in there and you can potentially lock up either or both of drive and steering - bad news, but it's not going to get to that state overnight.

fuzzy

if its split it fails.cv boot is then replaced. if it isnt split it passes.

Cragrat

iTrader: (4)

One thing I never understood is that an mot is a test of a vehicles roadworthyness,why will it fail with a defective numberplate,ie water or muck has got between plate and digits and is obscuring them..

Just a question

trev1964

Found it.....


http://www.mottest.net/mot/mot-failure-question/

St3V3_C

Completely missed my point

And the VOSA response doesn't really help as tyres have there own specific law and penalty anyway. Rubbish However, I suppose it does say that as long as you get the stuff fixed then you have a valid MOT - you will NOT need to get the fail re-tested at the MOT station. Obviously up to the point of expiry of your current cert.

tee-rex

This seems very strange to me i have tested lots of cars and vans that have had short tests left on them 2-3 months and on the ones that fail the failure sheet tells the customer the critieria for a re-test yet does not say you still have 2 months test left to run so you can still use that, it says you have 10 working days to get the car re-tested to qualify for a partial re-test. I will phone vosa in the morning to clarify this as now i am confused.

tee-rex

All to do with camera recognition m8

Cragrat

iTrader: (4)

Thought so,but what has that got to do with roadworthyness though

apart from its a convenient time to enforce it

Northants Ford Fan

tee rex your confused means i havent got a hope lol, the car has mot till feb so you can see why i want to put 12months on as no one wants to risk buying a car with short mot and find it needs lots of work in a couple of months.

And tee rex if you could check that would be great as then it would be a definate answer not hear say if you now what i mean.

RS2000CUSTOM

Been a tester since 1989

An MOT runs for a 12 month period

If ANY fault or failure of any component occurs within that 12 month period - IT STILL HAS AN MOT

If car sets on fire and is wrecked - IT STILL HAS AN MOT

If car is smashed to pieces - IT STILL HAS AN MOT

If car is stolen - IT STILL HAS AN MOT

If I pass a car and print off an MOT Certificate then instantly decide I have cocked up and missed a failable item I can instantly do another MOT fail it yet the car - STILL HAS AN MOT

Do not confuse a car having a valid MOT and a car needing a repair of any kind

A car owner if they so desire can have 1 (or 10 for that matter) MOT tests on their car every day of the year and the 1st MOT carried out on day 1 will remain valid for the period of 12 months from date of issue.

Should the owner then get a failure on a test he will be issued with a Refusal of an MOT certificate to which he can throw the fail notice away if he so wishes and his car STILL HAS AN MOT as the test carried out on day 1 is still valid.

Other way to look at it is for example I test and pass a car tomorrow morning with no advisories and on the way home 50 yards away from the MOT centre the customer has a puncture and he then fits his spare wheel that is fitted with a tyre that has less than 1.6mm tread etc (spare wheel is NOT a car MOT test item) and then carries on his way home/shopping/work etc etc

He then gets pulled over by the Police who find the defective tyre and he gets 3 points and a fine (yes I know he may get a 7 day notice to repair but just bear with me - lol)

The offence committed is NOT for having no MOT it is for having a defective tyre

Those who have been instructed on seminars that "the latest test results are the only results that counts and they supercede any previous test" You have been advised wrong !

CossieRich

iTrader: (1)

Dave,

Nice explanation. Bit worrying that teerex has been on a seminar and has been advised wrongly. Is there no industry standard type seminars that you tester's have to attend?

RS2000CUSTOM

cheeRS Rich

The organising and delivery of an MOT seminar is carried out by VOSA

As with any training event it is only as good as the person delivering the course

If anyone wants to test my explanation of the 12 month MOT then try the following

Your car has a current valid MOT certificate that has any number of months remaining but you need to tax it

Your car is in perfect condition

Fit 1 faulty tyre and then go for an MOT

Allow the car to fail be issued with a "Refusal of an MOT Certificate" but do not repair it

Now go to Post Office or go online and try to tax it

As your original MOT is still within 12 months you will be able to tax it !

tee-rex

As rs2ooo custom and a couple of others have said the mot duration is for 12 months i have been informed wrongly, i have just spoken to vosa and they have clarified this.
However the test failure will go onto the vehicle test history.
The only exeptions to the 12 month rule are prohibitions issued by either the police or vosa that req a full test which if the vehicle fails cancels out any time left on the mot.
The guy at vosa did recognise that the uncertainty around the op's original question amongst testers and the genral public is very common because common sence would say if you present a vehicle for a test and it fails the vehicle is not roadworthy from that point. unfortunatly common sence and the secretary of state for transport and their various departments make and approve all the rules regarding the mot scheme, so we have polotics and common sence together and they come up with confussion.........
Anyway sorry to all those i have told they were wrong i am off to eat some humble pie now

cutch

iTrader: (1)

Good point rs2000custom!

RS2000CUSTOM

No need for any humble pie mate

Everyday is a school day

What is wrong though is incorrect information being given to you by a VOSA "official" at an MOT seminar

I do freelance MOT testing and MOT station audits and the varying "opinions" on what should or should not be done regarding the Test Centre and any MOT being carried out is crazy for a procedure that is set out in a comprehensive Testers Manual.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

MOT test is definately valid for the full 12 months even if you fail another one in the mean time.

Bear in mind that any car that would fail an MOT is potentially an offence to be driving though (tyre example given is a good one) so if your car has failed an MOT you need to get it fixed before its legal to drive it on the road again, but that was also true before you failed the MOT, you just didnt know it was. But ignorance is no defence of course, so it actually makes no differences if its failed an MOT or not, its still legal if it doesnt have faults, and illegal if it does have faults.

stevieturbo

Correct. It's been well documented over here by many traffic cops, and why roadside MOT checks are becoming more frequent here. It is a shame they only target small and specific sections of motorists though.
Although it has to be said, some are well deserved of a retest.

RS2000CUSTOM

Stevie I think you may have quoted the earlier statement made by TeeRex

TeeRex has since been onto VOSA and agrees his earlier statement (as quoted by yourself) was incorrect.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Nope, not correct at all.

MOT is valid for 12 months from start date (which can be upto 1 month ahead of test date) and NOTHING that happens in that time stops the MOT still being valid.
Car might not be roadworthy and not allowed on the road due to faults, but that doesnt invalidate the MOT and wether you have it retested or not has no bearing on if those faults make it roadworthy or not.

Ie if you have bold tyres, your MOT is still valid, wether you take and fail one or not, and you are committing an offence driving on them wether you take and fail one or not.