R4N SS

iTrader: (6)

M3s are not slow. Although a stage 3 cossie will absolutely murder an E36 M3 - i did with only 18psi and my cousin in his E36 M3 Evo was defo trying

I think RS Turbos are seen as more yobo cars than M3's

Brendan

iTrader: (1)

My BMW cossets me .... very useful at the end of a long week driving 200 plus miles home. My ford on the other hand is FUN but will try scare me sometimes when using the loud peddle or locking up the front wheels!

can't beet the BMW for every day (except in the snow) and the ford for fun.

R4N SS

iTrader: (6)

The BMWs drive so much nicer than the Fords too

Glenn_

iTrader: (1)

Sorry i should reword that im talking about over the last few years.BMW made the M3 what did ford make,the ST220.Ok the ST is a nice car but it cant compete up against a M3.

Jim Galbally

yeah but ford has got their act together and released the new focus RS.

IMHo thats a car made in the same vein.

dunno whats its like as a direct comparison to the e9x M3s but dont care really, still a nice bit of kit!

Glenn_

iTrader: (1)

Yeh the focus rs is a stunning car they look mint in white,

saph cos rob

iTrader: (11)

i do agree with ford not making anything recent to compete with the m3 audis etc, yes the focus rs is fast and usable but unless people start converting them to rwd or 4wd i dont think there ever have the same appeal especally with the big power boys.... think ford need to get there aRSe into gear and bring out a holigan RS rwd or 4wd model!

Jim Galbally

actually my figures were wrong for production numbers, they only made 21,000 E46 M3s

thats LESS than saphs

obviously you see more on the road than saphs as less have broken down

jameswrx

I think it's not a case of them actually being slow (you've only got to watch some of the youtube vids of m3 vs xxx the forum guys do) it's more that they feel slow as the power delivery is just so smooth.

I remember many years back when I went to buy an e36 m3 (back when the cheapest was £8k) and my mate took me there in his 300bhp classic impreza. When the guy took us on a test drive it was dream shatteringly slow. I still bought it as it was cheap and I wanted an 'M3'. On the way home we found that the 2 cars were almost identical (even from standing start) in terms of acceleration in all gears. To go in the scoob you'd think it'd waste the M3 but it wasn't actually the case.

I'd really like an E46 M3 in carbon black but my cars hardly get used, sometimes once/twice a month and I get the impression it's not special enough to put a smile on my face in this situation.

The other thing is I'm a serious turbo lover, just knowing the potential for more power is there is sometimes enough. The M3 has been finely tuned and being n/a is pretty much at it's max potential give or take a few horses you prob wouldn't notice.

To be honest a chipped 330d prob feels faster I'd imagine, granted it prob isn't but I do like to feel the forced induction shove.

Glenn_

iTrader: (1)

I bet there is more M3s on tshe road than there is cossies cause most of them have been broke for parts or rotted away. Tbh yhough i think cossies get looked at more then the M3s do.

~nomad~

iTrader: (4)

I love the mk2 FRS, it doesn't keep up with a e90 m3 on the road though, in my experiance.

I didnt realise your m3 was a saloon, I want it now, fancy a 172 cup? lol

Jim Galbally

make the 172 magically become a nice comfy 4dr diesel and i'll think about it... lol

~nomad~

iTrader: (4)

Nope, remarkable on fuel but it is very very harsh and missing a couple doors lol

v man

just out of interest

now ive had a few cossies and love them but has anyone weighed up the money they spend on them to the cost of around 6 grand to turbo a m3 to which will give you around 600 reliable poneys

and there are people running well over 1000 bhp from a worked m powered lump

i find it interesting thats all

Jay,

iTrader: (4)

the bmw runing gear has for years been over engineered so even if there blocks ect in design are as old as the cossie the germans wouldnt put a engine like that together ! remember the cossie engine is just a old pinto with a good head coupled with bad tolerances ect its not a great engine as far as the modern 6 cylinder m3 and even newer v8 , then theres capacity to .

Jim Galbally

600 horsepower from a S54 with a turbo bolted on?

im not sure about that

Mike1

Anyone over in UK done one of these conversions? Seen similar ones used at Gatebil but they seem prone to breaking ......

Shonky

With a general rule of thumb you double the air and fuel you double the power, a bar of boost has the possibility of making 680hp with the right bits, knock the boost back to preserve the internals and 600hp sounds quite achievable, the 200hp 325 with a bar of boost make around 400hp quite easily, if the S54 rods and pistons are forged anyway they might take a bar of boost

HorsepowerFreaks in the US are claiming their kits make 530hp on 91 octane with standard internals but f*ck they're expensive!

DAN-Saff

Is a shame BMW didn't do the same to the shell the rear subframes mounts especially - http://m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=317265

Shocking on such a new car and it's not rust, it's structural intergrity.

Proper Break My Wallet

Jay,

iTrader: (4)

funny that isnt it well you know what i mean BMW MERC in the last 10 years the overall car build quality has slipped badly yet there engines get better all the time

DAN-Saff

Yeh like the csl cardboard floor Plywood would have been better like the trabent

Is it the engines getting better or they making them lighter with paper mâché or carbon

Jay,

iTrader: (4)

mmmmmm duno Dan but if the carry on like this it will be rebadged as a BMW Morgan

DAN-Saff

Nah they'll start supply them in kit form with a tube of glue and a stanley blade

Glenn_

iTrader: (1)

Fpmsl at these last comments. It is shocking the the rear mounts.

marco polo

iTrader: (1)

to be honest the only M3 i love is the E 30's and evo 1 / evo II

E36 was a let down alot bigger and a tank compaired to the e30

cra1g

I have a sapph cosworth and have driven afew m3s.

The fact that we are even comparin the cossies to m3s after all these years says it all for the cossie.

The more modern m3s are from a different era better technology etc, but to me thats whats appealing about my cossie, the fact that it is 20 year old and based on an old pinto and is been compared to bmw m3s old and new and if its got the right parts fitted can easily embarass the m3. Addmitedly like most now i dont use it everyday but i think it deserves to enjoy its retirement after what the cosworth name has achieved.

My everyday car is a bmw330d it is a fantastic everyday car... But thats it!

v man

its not just bolting on a turbo lol

parts needed are,,,

exhaust manifold
inlet manifold
tb
intercooler and pipe work
managment

which for not a lot compaired to what some spend on a yb
will give around the 600 on standard engine reliable

fully worked m3 engines can give over 1200 poneys but very expensive to do

i looked into doing the convertion on my own e36 m3

Ginge !

the main issue with that idea is once the turbo is fitted,,,,,, where you gonna put the sterring colum hence the conversions are for LHD

DangerousBryan

Nah you can still make it fit. Just have to modify the downpipe. Easier to supercharge though. Jay did one relatively cheaply using a merc supercharger. Should be able to make 400 horses and a lot more torque I would of thought.

sierrsteve1980

iTrader: (7)

I looked into it, a e36 M3 instead of my saph. I borrowed my mates M3 for 2 weeks while he was away and wow what a car, comfy quite and surprisingly good on fuel.

But when he got back i got in my saph, rattly interior noisey not so good on fuel but it has boost. I would love an M3 for everyday and the saph for a fuck about but i can only just afford the saph so thats that idea out of the window.

All in all both great cars but for different reasons.

Shonky

I looked at supercharging my 325 as I had an Eaton m62 in stock for my Ka, universal intercooler and pipework, bigger FPR and injectors are all obtained quite readily and cheaply, I was put in touch with a guy on one of the bmw forums that would live-map the standard motronic ECU for less than £500 IIRC, can't remember who it was now but it was someone well thought of the in the bmw circles so it can be done

HPF do RHD conversion parts too, not sure if anyone in mainland europe do though

v man

There are places in this country that make the exhaust manifold for right hand drive so it clears the steering coloum/joint

marco polo

iTrader: (1)

Hi Jim

im sorry but the E36 M3 was a big let down ....even the evo 6 speed version wasn't all that ...........the evo was and still is a better car allround


ps standard cossis are shite also but 330bhp with a good setup are cool and will give the M3 (E36) a good toasting lol

marco

bensworth1

Two very different cars really i have owned an e36 m3 evo and a e46 evo i have also had acess to my Old mans e60 m5

THE m3 e36 was a little disapointing drove well looked nice and was reliable the e46 was alot better good allround performance on a par with a 300bhp cosworth my cossie is about 300bhp and is very similar to the e46 managed a 13.6 quarter in the e46 and have done a 13.4 in the sapphire 4x4 of course.

the m5 is a totally different animal not sure at which level it would compare to a tuned cosworth but its acceleration was blistering especially after a 100 it did never seem to slow and only hit the limiter at 176 ment to stop at 155 but they dont.

I currently also along with my sapphire have a sl55 amg 54 plate with uprated pulley and map 566 bhp at the fly with over 700ilb of torque yours for 25k will give any m3 even the new v8 a roasting bargain just the fuel is shite a 12mpg deal??

Cossiemainful

iTrader: (1)

I wouldn't dream of it. COSSIE all the way!

Cos = legendary racing car
M = standard (boring) sports limo

Don't get me wrong, both are wicked cars for sure but only the mighty Cos can rule the world!

Btw. My Scorpio has much more place in the interior as every BMW I know.
Cars are only a matter of taste like everything else.

NUTTIN RILLA

HPF have done it mate, it should be available here soon. (twin turbo)


Back to the topic, my old cossie was great, but such a hindrance, i couldnt rely on it when i needed to.


M3 e46 m3 is everything my cossie was plus soooo much more, a little less power but i was willing to accept that for the great handling.



Its a pretty poor comparison anyway, yet it always comes up.

Robs Frst

Both diffrent cars, Like them both. Has to be a M3 for me.

E30 or E46

Jim Galbally

marco, i was actually talking about the E46 lookswise, i know the E36 isnt to everyone's taste.

the E36 is still a performance benchmark car tho to be fair, infact every m3 has been since the E30 it just cahnges as newer ones gets released. The fact that we're even having a discussion about comparing other cars to them kind of proves that.

dont get me wrong ive not got BMW blinkers and i dont think the M3 is the best car ever blah blah blah

i personally prefer them to sierras and thats why i own one instead of a sierra. there are lots of other cars i'd rather have than the E36 M3 but i cant/dont for various reasons (main one is cost)

i'd chop mine in for a standard E39 M5 in a heartbeat, but i wouldnt chop it in for a 500bhp superdooper trackprepper cossie. thats not because i think the M5 is faster or anything, i just think its what i'd personally prefer to own

RichardPON

It is now I believe.

£14k