Stage 1 like what Pops / tiff used to run, or indeed similar to what i run.. or a Stage 3 would be reliable i would've thought!

 

Chip, you are a complete and utter plenum.

You don't have to live with the Ferrari F1 team for a season to know their reliability record is outstanding... or do you? (Where's the dickhead smiley when you need it?)

I've been over to Norway lots, have been in lots of cars over there, have spent lots of weekends on track and watching the track with these cars and their owners and the stick these cars get (which is 100% all the time on track apart from a couple of cooling down laps and also DEATH on the road). Their reliabilty is faultless.
The owners are also friends of mine who don't bullshit and tell me whenever they have a problem or indeed a positive development of their cars (The former usually being related to drivetrain or brakes and the latter usually being realted to the engine). They have nothing to hide and nothing to lose, hence why I think they've been ahead of us in the game for the last five years or so.

So, I accept your apology and hope this enlightens you

Ben

 

PS - for my two pence worth, I've already said what i think's the best, most useable, practical conversion on a day to day Cossie. Taking that further, as far as Rich330s interpretation of this goes, I'll agree with what someone else said on here and say if THAT is what you're after then sell the Cossie and buy an M5.
Ben

 

ppl are getting reliable and lasting mixed up
look at a standard engine many cozzys still doing 100,000 miles n running fine
if cared for
not rattle when cold etc
my engine old saff one built brand new piston rebore
after 14000 miles of thrash the valve guids were fuked and it was bore wear that was rattling from cold
so lookin at that i would say track and thrash does reduce engine life
look at rallyxcross engine built after every race some of them
i recon 10000 miles of thrash and new block needed
imo

 

Remmeber the Brabham BMW f1 car, the 4 cylinder one. They used 1500cc engine out of one of there road car's, They used the high's millage ones for the F1 car's as if they have not broke now they will never break and those cars produced 1300 bhp.

Just a little story for you.

 

Ben, it really is a pointless debate, as reliable and "normal use" etc are such subjective terms.

The fundamental thing though is that reliability against power is an exponential curve, and that every time you increase the cylinder pressures by a bit more you end up shortening the life by a lot more.

If they genuinely have built engines that last one season at 700+bhp driven hard day in and day out and abused the whole time at whatever they call normal annual road milage, then thats fantastic, but for the same money they could have built a 600bhp one to the same standards that would have lasted a few years or a 500bhp one that lasted a decade instead, thats the point about what constitutes a road engine.
I currently do 50,000 miles a year approximately, do you think that if i had one of their engines in my car it would still be holding together at the end of the year?
I doubt even you are going to claim that, and yet im sure you would be quite happy to predict that a freshly built 400bhp engine would do so.

So its all down to what you call "normal road use" to me it involves a lot of milage, to others like yourself it might not.

Also depends on what you cool normal maintainance, personally im not really fussed if i have to do things like replace head gaskets occasionally, or lap valves in reguarly, providing there is no machining needed that means removing the engine from the car, im quite happy to consider everything else "routine maintainance", but a lot of people on here wouldnt view it the same way as to them taking the head off is an expensive procedure that involves a garage bill, and likewise im sure there are others who are quite happy to remove their engine once every 6 months and freshen it up with new bearings, honing it and new rings.

Either way, its fantastic stuff the norwegian lads are doing, and its nice to see big figures on a notice board or even in a mag, even if people like Karl's normal customers or even myself arent going to be interested in something that requires so much attention.

 

According to the recent documentary on the telly about those engines they also left them outside for 6 months and a dozen blokes used to piss on them every time they needed to go as well, but i suspect that if an engine builder were to mark down 1000 * 2 mins @ 60 quid an hour for pissing on your engine when he built it that you might not think it was 2 grand well spent.

Those blocks are a good illustration of what i was saying though about older engines being massively over engineered as weight wasnt a concern really at the time.

 

Chip.

Look at Mike R's saff. 515bhp quite a few years ago now on basically an rs500 set up. I guarantee you that car had the living shit thrashed out of it almost every day, he used to do well over 170mph at least 3 times every tank of petrol. that thing never missed a beat. That was a few years ago and on 20 year old technology so why is a reliable 700bhp on up to date parts and technology so far fetched???

 

As i said its an exponential curve, but also dont forget that there isnt any mammouth leap in block/rings/piston technology between the RS500 and the cossie engines people are producing now, im sure there are many small improvements, but nothing that would imply you can now build a 700bhp engine today as reliabley as they could a 515bhp engine 20 years ago.

(although i dare say less heat introduced due to roller bearing turbos etc probably helps a bit, and management is certainly better now too, but none of that makes a massive difference to cylinder pressures)

 

Off topic.....

Now where is dumped?

Look at that badboy!

 

old tech or new
f1 engine stripped evey race there 850 or what every bhp they are
y carnt f1 build a engine to last
maybe the norway lads should start building f1 engines if they gona be 100% relable and never wear out

 

that's not the car with 779 bhp...
but it's the same kind of turbo used on both cars... old F1 turbos

 

Chip - to be honest, this thread wasn't about 50,000 mile everyday cars - If you want that then buy a poxy TDCi Focus.

"If they genuinely have built engines that last one season at 700+bhp driven hard day in and day out and abused the whole time at whatever they call normal annual road milage, then thats fantastic, but for the same money they could have built a 600bhp one to the same standards that would have lasted a few years or a 500bhp one that lasted a decade instead, thats the point about what constitutes a road engine."

As I say, this was never about an engine solely used on the road - you've turned the thread round onto this to suit your argument... and I think anyone using a Cossie everyday for 50,000 miles at 300bhp never mind 500bhp as you've mentioned needs their head checked.

What a pointless argument - "yeah, but if they'd built a 600bhp one it could have lasted this long, but if they built a 500bhp one it could last even longer etc." For f***s sake, where are you gonna stop? "Yeah but if they built it standard it would last 100,000 miles... i think you may have missed the point of this thread, this forum, Cossies and the aftermarket scene in general mate

Ben

PS - Nikasil liners. Just to put your repeated sclinging to 'cylinder pressures' argument to rest

 

PS Brom - I don't think anyone has said 'they will never wear out' - even a standard 1.8 Zetec with pukka on time servicing driven by my nan will wear out

 

No I guessed, but fooking damn impressive either way! WOOOOOOO that is one big turbo....

 

well, you don't have to guess anymore...
THIS is the 779 bhp car..


the EsCos is a "build under progress".. the owner want's/tries to get it done to Gatebil July (i think it was)
(don't know who the owner is thou)

 

Ben, its a discussion forum, and hence lots of people will discuss things.
If you want to just say something and have no one else give an opinon as well then put it in a magazine.

We've all got different ideas of what is and isnt reliable, i get people telling me that its pointless me putting 500bhp into a mini because of lack of traction or that it wont last etc, but i dont care cause i just happen to enjoy building that sort of thing, im sure its the same for these lads, and i wasnt saying anything against the guys, just trying to point out to people reading the thread why it might not be so relevant to them before they go and all start ordering 700bhp engines from their tuners.

 

LOL......i am sure the owners of 700plus bhp cars are worried about wether it will do 100000miles!!!!Its the case of the parts used will cope with the power for a certain distance...then refresh...We know 504bhp and 480ft lb torque will last 25000 miles plus thrashed if built correctly.

You cant compare a rallycar/rallycross car to these babys as they are FLAT out everywhere...they gotta last a season...so aint bad really as many are around 800bhp and if one can last a season i guess one could handle the road for a couple of years and 25000miles...the thing is the more power the less you can use it...i bet a 700bhp road car would last longer than a 400bhp road car...cause its built stronger and isnt used much at full power...the other can be driven like a lunatic!!!

Great point Re Karl...just proves he knows jack shit Bangs on about how reliable his is 20k plus miles Now he saying its hard work???How.... Oil change every 2000miles and plugs..what else or is your engine design doin a crank a week? ...Bit like his crap ARP theory....he is only right if you dont know how to INSTALL them correctly

 

Just because people in this country choose not to buy or perhaps can not afford to buy a reliable 700bhp engine in this country does not mean others cant? I think Karl said earlier his engine or 700bhp spec wouldnt be marketable product for him cause of cost. But this is his personal opinion/circumstances, other business/people may have the extra funds needed to make this happen.

To me if you want a 600-700bhp engine then you have to factor running costs in to the build. Has anyone here actually built a dyno proven non nos 700bhp yb cossie then? If not then its guestimation being used.

I dont think anyone to be honest builds a high bhp engine to be used on the road as its only purpose. Most would be building for track use or 1/4 mile sprints, not to tale the kids to school. As said the bmw m5 is your car for that sort of thing.

Why not let this car run and see how it lasts. I thinks its an achievement for a cos without nos to be touching on 800bhp. A point a lot have missed.

 

A lot of the differences in building a bigger bhp engine are looser clearances to allow it to cope with the heat, the side effect of that is that it wears more on cold startup, so its not really a case of a 700bhp engine is "stronger"

also a 400bhp engine would be quite happy on normal bearing shells which last loads of miles even with the occasional bit of swarf going past them, where as the harder race type wont.


9/10 times uprated or race parts can handle more power but for less time.

 

well, the car has been running.... for the last year on most of the trackdays in Norway...

And it's been quite fast..
Don't know if it is the same engine thou.. or if it has been rebuilt or whatever... and i really don't care..

 

And i bet the owner doesnt care if he has had to rebuild it either, as you have to be pretty committed to go for something like that in the first place

 

Errr.... talk about not telling the whole story so the standard crank and rods could take 1300bhp could they???
did they need to change anything in the head at all?? did they get Ima racing to tune it for them??


Foooking LOVE this car by the way


Pics like that make me wanna keep my Cossie!

 

naah... don't think he really cares.. not that he is rich or something (he might be for all i know and care) but when you build a car like that you KNOW and expect that it's gonna cost ya..
And both he and Jenspeed get's good PR from the car so he even might get a tiny discount if he have to rebuild it...

 

_________________


That looks amazing!

 

Tony K - yes mate, Julian Godfrey's built too many 700bhp engines to list - the one powering the probe lasted a whole season and he only changed the plugs once!!
Ben

 

What he said...
naah, pics like that makes me wanna build a proper 3dr...
not like the shonky old i have

 

Rob spot on! It was "ONLY" running 620bhp this year. The same engine with a different inlet and the bigger F1 spec turbo and there's the end result as seen on the first page 779bhp !

 

was it "only" 620 last year? not what i heard...
well then, if that's the case i will promptly take back all the stuff i said about it being fast... it's slow as fook now that i know the truth...

and yeah, i'm kidding..

 

...and i been taking advice from Mr Godfrey

Chip who said you have to use anything other than std cossie shells? You got alot to learn about BIG BHP YB's

 

which is what I said on the previous page

 

isnt that 500 someones of here i am sure someone has a sig with that car on a trailer could be wrong mind but it is VERY similar

 

Even normal liners offer a stronger bore than the original block to aid cylinder pressure strength.

Nikasil liners are so thick they actually TOUCH each other in the block!!!!!

 

that is ryan. its not his car, just how he wants his to look

 

I bet that even though these cars put out huge power, Ben has seen less failures over there than he has at Brunters shooting stage 1 cossies for the mag over here...

 

Can of worms Are you suggesting that the cars are not "chipped" correctly?

 

Phil's right in his assumption, although it's usually 380-500bhp UK cars that Ive seen go Pete Tong.

Never seen a Norweigian or indeed a rally-x YB go wrong (saw Pat's BDTE go belly up twice though!).

Ben

PS - But Phil, apparently it doesn't count because I haven't sat with them every time they've driven the car! LOL And how's that Mk1 coming on mate?

 

thats what am getting at
you up the boost revs power it will wear out faster
i know all about 1000s of miles on all engines i serviced n built all kinds in 15yr i been in the trade
i had 1st hands on experance you read books to get yours as u dont like getting hands dirty

 

Ben, mk1 still on hold whilst i'm in London - that grudge match may have to wait (and i'm not doing top speed again at Brunters )

P.S. Tell Nick to ring me sometime in the next few weeks if he finds the time in his busy schedule

 

thing is brom you don't know what i have or haven't done mate - got fed up of getting my hands dirty years ago, got pics of me working my own heads if you like to see em mate - assumption is the mother of all fuck ups dude!
and as far as your 'hands-on' experience with 700bhp+ engines (which is how many?) against my experience/s seeing them being built by the top people, seeing them go on the dyno again and again, being mapped, and bandying ideas around with them about taking them further etc. - ie., not reading about it in a book: seeing it and being involved with it in person - erm, well, that pretty much answers that