Yep - ever watched Getaway in Stockholm? That's the kind of respect the guys have for the fuzz and your speed limits out there!
Ben

 

On the straights you will always want more and more. Even if you can't control the car in the curves. Recently in Poland they banned WRC cars in rallying as only few poele could afford them after bans on advertising tabbaco and alcohol. The effect is there are some very very good drivers who say they won't drive Gr.N cars as they are just too slow. One of them after test stage for our only gravel rally in championship said that his co-pilot shouted at him all the time to press the throttle at last....

I write this to show that when you are speed maniac - like big part of rally drivers are,you will always feel going slow if youa re not going faster and faster each time. Gr.N cars maybe not what you call "big HP" but they are by no means slow cars! The same with road/track tuning "for civilians". When I first driven 400bhp Scoobie it felt - WOW it's a rocket. If I would drive it now I would probably be bored at the straights (in fact after few hours of pratising driving in my Escos it feels SO SLOW, and certainly lacks power for many things - some people afterthat would say I'm mad ). Still I can't use 100% potential of factory 55bhp Fiat Seicento, I use maybe 60% of Stg1+ Cossie and even less of faster cars....at the same time lots of people say "wow you can drive". It's all the matter of perspective.


I wonder if you can decipher anything from this but I think I've written what I'm thinking. Still I dream a lot about having few laps in a quick rally-bred car - like Mike's or similar....

 

Is that the film with the escort cossie that is running 450bhp or so because its a good useable figure while still being very drivable and they can make it reliable for long periods of abuse?

 

I've seen it. Yo can't do this kind of stuff on daily basis. I do know people living in Oslo and from what they tell me I would be fined, jailed, banned and shot on the first hour driving there if I drove like I do here at home, even tough I consider myself driving quite slowly and calmly on road nowdays.

 

 

i know what the standard 200 block with standard bore kan take and that has fredde proved, with 734bhp i cracked in the 2. cylinder... pretty good for a compleet standard block, it is not even a motorsport block...

I`v cracked a standard 205 block with about 400+bhp...

 

thats another good point. I know you come from a very respectable background with engine testing etc Karl but have you ever really done precise testing on a few cosworth engines at silly power to really test the limits or can you just tell by doing the sums as such...

 

Er Chip, I wasn't talking about the power I bought up GIS to answer the speeding comments.
Also, if that is the case in Oslo, it didn't stop two very famous cars racing each other (with me in the passenger seat of one just after meeting the guys for the first time) along it at 150 -165mph for around 6 miles on the E6!
Ben

 

They didn't have registration plates? Anyway when moving around I don't suspect they drive this way, do they?

 

Nothing like showing off for the journalists!!!

 

Jakub - yes and yes!! Karl, I know, it's a bit of an occupational hazard and I don't tend to go in cars other than at Brunters cos i've had too many nasty experiences - but when i met them these boys displayed the stereotypical calm laid back Scandinavian attitude so I was lulled into a false sense of security!

 

So many assholes

Seen this car in action a couple of times, it's fast as hell, and I think it can cope with 779bhp.

 

For someone who's typing in a foreign language, that's about one of best written comments I've seen. Makes perfect sense, and sums up exactly what I was thinking

Try and get over here on one of the big weekends like National Day - plenty of people will be able to give you passenger rides etc........

 

Well that wasn't a typical drive on road. Normally traffic police there is a pain in the ass. People getting tickets for 2mph more then limit and things like that... here in Poland you still can drive quite fast oon daily basis but it's becoming slower and slower - not as much from new speed cameras as from roads becoming blocked by the traffic and tramac craking and destroying your wheels and suspensions....

Anyway once more I'am writing too much. I wanted to say that very quick drive on twisty road somewhere in the middle of nowhere can be a great fun if you have 50bhp or 700bhp, but it's becoming less and less possible, and it's a great shame :-( I don't think there is any sense or fun in flooring it on motorway maybe apart from adrenaline from braking the law. It doesn't require any skill either.

 

Thanks Rich

It would be almost like driving as you all drive from passengers seat

Still I'm not a very good person for a passenger. As co-driver I've got something to do, as passenger I tend to snap-off door handles from fear There aren't many people whom I like to trust my life

 

Ben i know you didnt bring it up for the power figures, it just seems to me that it was a bit of an "own goal" for you that your example of the cars getting used hard happened to be of a car with the sort of spec Karl was saying is ideal anyway, so at least some of the lads over there obvioulsy agree with him.

Also, what they tell you and the actual perfect truth about how the cars are used are probably not the same thing, after all it wouldnt make get reading if it said

"700bhp car, that gets driven once a fortnight and only for a few minutes at a time on full boost"

People play up for journalists all the time.
If you look at even basic stuff like the footage of female football supporters at the world cup they are all gorgeous and permenantly girating in front of the camera topless etc, but thats not been my experience of football matches at all.

Same with when the likes of "max power" turn up at car meets and all the lads start donutting and all the birds start getting off with each other, thats not an accurate representation of what happens, but it probably seems it to the journalist (using the term loosely) as thats all they ever see of it.

 

rudd racing sapph, im sure it says in the article is gets rebuilt often as an example

 

Karl, you say these engines wont last long, but wasnt you saying your "700bhp" engine had lasted 20k miles so far?

Its superb for the bhp/litre with no gas, its not so good if the car was lower power, but it isnt, so cant criticise it one bit.

I think you need new glasses tho mate
At 3000rpm its 70bhp
Its 200bhp by 4150rpm
320bhp comes at 4500rpm
Its same power as yours by 4800rpm

So no low down power, but HUGE midrange, but the top end rpm is freakishly low at 7k.

One other serious point to remember is dynos only show BOOST THRESHOLD, not LAG, i think youl find the car is far far less userfriendly to drive than ther graph makes out

Still a proper weapon and be hard to improve on that powerband for that bhp/litre

 

So ou think that if I press throttle to the bottom at let's say 4500 rpm I will wait about one hour untill I get some power? Original Porsche Turbo characteristics? I thought it was called "spool up" but may be languege difference like BOV and DV between UK and america.

 

Yes the graph never shows the whole story, you can have two cars (like the engine itsmeagain refers to) that have the same power at the same rpm, but if you are at that rpm coasting along and then floor it one will take off miles before the other due to the spool up times.

Only way to really get a feel for an engine is to drive it, graphs only tell half the story.

 

Steve. should have gone to spec savers

 

I think it's very important point we got to. Probably it's the reasonwhy WRC engines are so expensive even though they are not that impressive on paper. And that's why Hansen's Xsara in rallycross is much faster the everybody even though it has 100bhp less then most people.

 

 

Steve,

My engine has covered 20K now but the maintenance and upkeep that has been involved in doing this is not practical for a customters car who will expect to jump in and drive whenever they like.

Also remember mine is a road car, so does cover quite a significant milage at less than full power!

The other issue as well is it is'nt a cheap engine to reproduce so its marketability is limited.

 

The only reason WRC cars dont make these sort of power figures is the restrictor in the inlet TBH.

Im sure with less rules they would make this sort of power, but then they dont need to be reliabiable for 10s of thousands of miles.

 

I know I know. I meant that even though they don't produce power of this sorts THEY ARE very very quick.

 

Indeed, speed isnt just about peak BHP

 

What I dream for my Cossie is getting VERY fast 330bhp. It's rally-cars cousin and I'd like it to feel like rally car. But as being small turbo it now feels as close to restricted GrN as non-restricted car can.

 

Rally cars have stuff like antilag, its a very different ballgame TBH.

 

Did Gr.N Escos have antilag back in 93 or 94?


I did drive Impreza with anti-lag. Nice But it's only matter of money to have it on road car. And one more thing - it's not like every rallycar is top of the range, full spec car. Some don't have manythings. Not every Evo in POlish championship has it or has it running on every stage.

 

antilag on a road car is a very bad idea IMHO, its too violent on the engine/exhaust etc.

 

apart from burning out all the baffles in the exhaust (could watch them tumbling down the road in a shower of sparks n flames) antilag never did any harm to my car and i barely turned the fucker off, tho the turbo was built for it.

main danger is high EGTs, and its suprising how long it takes for the EGTs to get dangerously high.

 

Chip - You're not listening - It's not what i've been told mate, it's what I've SEEN with my own eyes, EXPERIENCED in the actual cars etc... I assume you have too?
Ben

 

Nobody said you have to have anti-lag switched on on motorway..... it's for time-measured occasions only IMO.

 

Ah sorry mate, didnt realise you were out there for an entire season and went in the car every single time they drove it so that you saw for yourself how it was driven day in and day out to get first hand experience of its reliability.
I thought you just went over there to see them briefly and they then took you out with them showing off cause you were a journalist.

In which case you have me at a distinct disadvantage as no i havent done that, be nice to but i couldnt justify a year off work sadly.

 

If we are talking so much about reliability on this thread I have question to people discussing. What do you recon is highest power COssie to be true daily driver. I mean it would be driven everyday to work or to tesco or to impress birds or to get to the party and so on and with the same engine (maybe less adgressive map - let's saymore conservative ignition and so on) would be used on the track. And by reliable I mean you can go for holiday in France with it. What do you think?

 

Relaible to me means going to le-mans. Giving the cossie full chat in 5th to 6 grand, backing off doing it again and again. 100's of miles of proper acceleration and not using any oil and the engine not missing a beat. Thats my idea of a reliable, fast car.

 

Well i suspect that abused like that, most 500+bhp cossies would fail to meet your criteria, let alone 700+ ones, i should think that the spec of your own car from your sig is pretty much perfect for driving like that in fact

 

i agree with PFBen 100%!!!


how reliable are 400bhp cossies? will a 600bhp+cossie last more than 10k miles? driven hard?


carl

 

Tat sound reasonable. But as I said apart from that reliable road car schould be able to go let's say to holiday n Greece - some full throttle driving in the mountain there and back home. Will they do that or is it veyond even factory engine? I know thatmine can't do it but it's mainly to underinvestment and faileres of many axuliary parts...