OH MY F*CKING GOOD!!! 779bhp dynoed on cossie engine
#82
Originally Posted by RichardPON
I've also heard someone that most people couldn't use 75% of the power they have, so couldn't understand why they want more.
On the straights you will always want more and more. Even if you can't control the car in the curves. Recently in Poland they banned WRC cars in rallying as only few poele could afford them after bans on advertising tabbaco and alcohol. The effect is there are some very very good drivers who say they won't drive Gr.N cars as they are just too slow. One of them after test stage for our only gravel rally in championship said that his co-pilot shouted at him all the time to press the throttle at last....
I write this to show that when you are speed maniac - like big part of rally drivers are,you will always feel going slow if youa re not going faster and faster each time. Gr.N cars maybe not what you call "big HP" but they are by no means slow cars! The same with road/track tuning "for civilians". When I first driven 400bhp Scoobie it felt - WOW it's a rocket. If I would drive it now I would probably be bored at the straights (in fact after few hours of pratising driving in my Escos it feels SO SLOW, and certainly lacks power for many things - some people afterthat would say I'm mad ). Still I can't use 100% potential of factory 55bhp Fiat Seicento, I use maybe 60% of Stg1+ Cossie and even less of faster cars....at the same time lots of people say "wow you can drive". It's all the matter of perspective.
I wonder if you can decipher anything from this but I think I've written what I'm thinking. Still I dream a lot about having few laps in a quick rally-bred car - like Mike's or similar....
#83
Originally Posted by PF Ben
Yep - ever watched Getaway in Stockholm? That's the kind of respect the guys have for the fuzz and your speed limits out there!
Ben
Ben
#84
Originally Posted by PF Ben
Yep - ever watched Getaway in Stockholm? That's the kind of respect the guys have for the fuzz and your speed limits out there!
Ben
Ben
I've seen it. Yo can't do this kind of stuff on daily basis. I do know people living in Oslo and from what they tell me I would be fined, jailed, banned and shot on the first hour driving there if I drove like I do here at home, even tough I consider myself driving quite slowly and calmly on road nowdays.
#85
Originally Posted by chip-3door
Originally Posted by PF Ben
Yep - ever watched Getaway in Stockholm? That's the kind of respect the guys have for the fuzz and your speed limits out there!
Ben
Ben
#86
i know what the standard 200 block with standard bore kan take and that has fredde proved, with 734bhp i cracked in the 2. cylinder... pretty good for a compleet standard block, it is not even a motorsport block...
I`v cracked a standard 205 block with about 400+bhp...
I`v cracked a standard 205 block with about 400+bhp...
#87
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thats another good point. I know you come from a very respectable background with engine testing etc Karl but have you ever really done precise testing on a few cosworth engines at silly power to really test the limits or can you just tell by doing the sums as such...
#88
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Er Chip, I wasn't talking about the power I bought up GIS to answer the speeding comments.
Also, if that is the case in Oslo, it didn't stop two very famous cars racing each other (with me in the passenger seat of one just after meeting the guys for the first time) along it at 150 -165mph for around 6 miles on the E6!
Ben
Also, if that is the case in Oslo, it didn't stop two very famous cars racing each other (with me in the passenger seat of one just after meeting the guys for the first time) along it at 150 -165mph for around 6 miles on the E6!
Ben
#89
Originally Posted by PF Ben
Also, if that is the case in Oslo, it didn't stop two very famous cars racing each other (with me in the passenger seat of one just after meeting the guys for the first time) along it at 150 -165mph for around 6 miles on the E6!
They didn't have registration plates? Anyway when moving around I don't suspect they drive this way, do they?
#91
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Jakub - yes and yes!! Karl, I know, it's a bit of an occupational hazard and I don't tend to go in cars other than at Brunters cos i've had too many nasty experiences - but when i met them these boys displayed the stereotypical calm laid back Scandinavian attitude so I was lulled into a false sense of security!
#93
Originally Posted by Azrael
I wonder if you can decipher anything from this but I think I've written what I'm thinking. Still I dream a lot about having few laps in a quick rally-bred car - like Mike's or similar....
Try and get over here on one of the big weekends like National Day - plenty of people will be able to give you passenger rides etc........
#94
Originally Posted by PF Ben
Jakub - yes and yes!! Karl, I know, it's a bit of an occupational hazard and I don't tend to go in cars other than at Brunters cos i've had too many nasty experiences - but when i met them these boys displayed the stereotypical calm laid back Scandinavian attitude so I was lulled into a false sense of security!
Well that wasn't a typical drive on road. Normally traffic police there is a pain in the ass. People getting tickets for 2mph more then limit and things like that... here in Poland you still can drive quite fast oon daily basis but it's becoming slower and slower - not as much from new speed cameras as from roads becoming blocked by the traffic and tramac craking and destroying your wheels and suspensions....
Anyway once more I'am writing too much. I wanted to say that very quick drive on twisty road somewhere in the middle of nowhere can be a great fun if you have 50bhp or 700bhp, but it's becoming less and less possible, and it's a great shame :-( I don't think there is any sense or fun in flooring it on motorway maybe apart from adrenaline from braking the law. It doesn't require any skill either.
#95
Originally Posted by RichardPON
Originally Posted by Azrael
I wonder if you can decipher anything from this but I think I've written what I'm thinking. Still I dream a lot about having few laps in a quick rally-bred car - like Mike's or similar....
Try and get over here on one of the big weekends like National Day - plenty of people will be able to give you passenger rides etc........
Still I'm not a very good person for a passenger. As co-driver I've got something to do, as passenger I tend to snap-off door handles from fear There aren't many people whom I like to trust my life
#96
Ben i know you didnt bring it up for the power figures, it just seems to me that it was a bit of an "own goal" for you that your example of the cars getting used hard happened to be of a car with the sort of spec Karl was saying is ideal anyway, so at least some of the lads over there obvioulsy agree with him.
Also, what they tell you and the actual perfect truth about how the cars are used are probably not the same thing, after all it wouldnt make get reading if it said
"700bhp car, that gets driven once a fortnight and only for a few minutes at a time on full boost"
People play up for journalists all the time.
If you look at even basic stuff like the footage of female football supporters at the world cup they are all gorgeous and permenantly girating in front of the camera topless etc, but thats not been my experience of football matches at all.
Same with when the likes of "max power" turn up at car meets and all the lads start donutting and all the birds start getting off with each other, thats not an accurate representation of what happens, but it probably seems it to the journalist (using the term loosely) as thats all they ever see of it.
Also, what they tell you and the actual perfect truth about how the cars are used are probably not the same thing, after all it wouldnt make get reading if it said
"700bhp car, that gets driven once a fortnight and only for a few minutes at a time on full boost"
People play up for journalists all the time.
If you look at even basic stuff like the footage of female football supporters at the world cup they are all gorgeous and permenantly girating in front of the camera topless etc, but thats not been my experience of football matches at all.
Same with when the likes of "max power" turn up at car meets and all the lads start donutting and all the birds start getting off with each other, thats not an accurate representation of what happens, but it probably seems it to the journalist (using the term loosely) as thats all they ever see of it.
#98
Karl, you say these engines wont last long, but wasnt you saying your "700bhp" engine had lasted 20k miles so far?
Its superb for the bhp/litre with no gas, its not so good if the car was lower power, but it isnt, so cant criticise it one bit.
I think you need new glasses tho mate
At 3000rpm its 70bhp
Its 200bhp by 4150rpm
320bhp comes at 4500rpm
Its same power as yours by 4800rpm
So no low down power, but HUGE midrange, but the top end rpm is freakishly low at 7k.
One other serious point to remember is dynos only show BOOST THRESHOLD, not LAG, i think youl find the car is far far less userfriendly to drive than ther graph makes out
Still a proper weapon and be hard to improve on that powerband for that bhp/litre
Originally Posted by JAP CRAP
Steve. I am confused. are you saying the above is a good graph or a shit one??? looks ok to me! 320bhp at well under 3000rpm and as much power as mine (440bhp) at about 4500! not like he's got nothing down low is it!
I think you need new glasses tho mate
At 3000rpm its 70bhp
Its 200bhp by 4150rpm
320bhp comes at 4500rpm
Its same power as yours by 4800rpm
So no low down power, but HUGE midrange, but the top end rpm is freakishly low at 7k.
One other serious point to remember is dynos only show BOOST THRESHOLD, not LAG, i think youl find the car is far far less userfriendly to drive than ther graph makes out
Still a proper weapon and be hard to improve on that powerband for that bhp/litre
#99
Originally Posted by Itsmeagain
One other serious point to remember is dynos only show BOOST THRESHOLD, not LAG, i think youl find the car is far far less userfriendly to drive than ther graph makes out
So ou think that if I press throttle to the bottom at let's say 4500 rpm I will wait about one hour untill I get some power? Original Porsche Turbo characteristics? I thought it was called "spool up" but may be languege difference like BOV and DV between UK and america.
#100
Yes the graph never shows the whole story, you can have two cars (like the engine itsmeagain refers to) that have the same power at the same rpm, but if you are at that rpm coasting along and then floor it one will take off miles before the other due to the spool up times.
Only way to really get a feel for an engine is to drive it, graphs only tell half the story.
Only way to really get a feel for an engine is to drive it, graphs only tell half the story.
#102
Originally Posted by chip-3door
Only way to really get a feel for an engine is to drive it, graphs only tell half the story.
#104
Steve,
My engine has covered 20K now but the maintenance and upkeep that has been involved in doing this is not practical for a customters car who will expect to jump in and drive whenever they like.
Also remember mine is a road car, so does cover quite a significant milage at less than full power!
The other issue as well is it is'nt a cheap engine to reproduce so its marketability is limited.
My engine has covered 20K now but the maintenance and upkeep that has been involved in doing this is not practical for a customters car who will expect to jump in and drive whenever they like.
Also remember mine is a road car, so does cover quite a significant milage at less than full power!
The other issue as well is it is'nt a cheap engine to reproduce so its marketability is limited.
#105
The only reason WRC cars dont make these sort of power figures is the restrictor in the inlet TBH.
Im sure with less rules they would make this sort of power, but then they dont need to be reliabiable for 10s of thousands of miles.
Im sure with less rules they would make this sort of power, but then they dont need to be reliabiable for 10s of thousands of miles.
#106
Originally Posted by chip-3door
The only reason WRC cars dont make these sort of power figures is the restrictor in the inlet TBH.
Im sure with less rules they would make this sort of power, but then they dont need to be reliabiable for 10s of thousands of miles.
Im sure with less rules they would make this sort of power, but then they dont need to be reliabiable for 10s of thousands of miles.
#108
Originally Posted by chip-3door
Indeed, speed isnt just about peak BHP
What I dream for my Cossie is getting VERY fast 330bhp. It's rally-cars cousin and I'd like it to feel like rally car. But as being small turbo it now feels as close to restricted GrN as non-restricted car can.
#110
Originally Posted by chip-3door
Rally cars have stuff like antilag, its a very different ballgame TBH.
Did Gr.N Escos have antilag back in 93 or 94?
I did drive Impreza with anti-lag. Nice But it's only matter of money to have it on road car. And one more thing - it's not like every rallycar is top of the range, full spec car. Some don't have manythings. Not every Evo in POlish championship has it or has it running on every stage.
#112
apart from burning out all the baffles in the exhaust (could watch them tumbling down the road in a shower of sparks n flames) antilag never did any harm to my car and i barely turned the fucker off, tho the turbo was built for it.
main danger is high EGTs, and its suprising how long it takes for the EGTs to get dangerously high.
main danger is high EGTs, and its suprising how long it takes for the EGTs to get dangerously high.
#114
Originally Posted by chip-3door
antilag on a road car is a very bad idea IMHO, its too violent on the engine/exhaust etc.
Nobody said you have to have anti-lag switched on on motorway..... it's for time-measured occasions only IMO.
#115
Originally Posted by PF Ben
Chip - You're not listening - It's not what i've been told mate, it's what I've SEEN with my own eyes, EXPERIENCED in the actual cars etc... I assume you have too?
Ben
Ben
I thought you just went over there to see them briefly and they then took you out with them showing off cause you were a journalist.
In which case you have me at a distinct disadvantage as no i havent done that, be nice to but i couldnt justify a year off work sadly.
#116
If we are talking so much about reliability on this thread I have question to people discussing. What do you recon is highest power COssie to be true daily driver. I mean it would be driven everyday to work or to tesco or to impress birds or to get to the party and so on and with the same engine (maybe less adgressive map - let's saymore conservative ignition and so on) would be used on the track. And by reliable I mean you can go for holiday in France with it. What do you think?
#117
Originally Posted by Azrael
If we are talking so much about reliability on this thread I have question to people discussing. What do you recon is highest power COssie to be true daily driver. I mean it would be driven everyday to work or to tesco or to impress birds or to get to the party and so on and with the same engine (maybe less adgressive map - let's saymore conservative ignition and so on) would be used on the track. And by reliable I mean you can go for holiday in France with it. What do you think?
#118
Originally Posted by cossierich330
Originally Posted by Azrael
If we are talking so much about reliability on this thread I have question to people discussing. What do you recon is highest power COssie to be true daily driver. I mean it would be driven everyday to work or to tesco or to impress birds or to get to the party and so on and with the same engine (maybe less adgressive map - let's saymore conservative ignition and so on) would be used on the track. And by reliable I mean you can go for holiday in France with it. What do you think?
Well i suspect that abused like that, most 500+bhp cossies would fail to meet your criteria, let alone 700+ ones, i should think that the spec of your own car from your sig is pretty much perfect for driving like that in fact
#120
Originally Posted by cossierich330
Relaible to me means going to le-mans. Giving the cossie full chat in 5th to 6th grand, backing off doing it again and again. 100's of miles of proper acceleration and not using any oil and the engine not missing a beat. Thats my idea of a reliable, fast car.