Oil coolers
02-03-2011, 08:21 PM
#1
Oil coolers
Is there a need for a oil cooler when oil like 10w/50 titan pro s can run temps of 100-130 with no problems at all ? I cant under stand having a need for a cooler with a thermostat set to open at 80 !!! Over cooling the oil is not good... Oil works best at its working temp.
What do you think ??????
What do you think ??????
02-03-2011, 09:29 PM
#3
PassionFord Post Troll
thats a very good point. are there oil cooler stats availible that open at higher temps?
i think the first thing to do is fit an oil temp gauge to see if a cooler is needed.
i think the first thing to do is fit an oil temp gauge to see if a cooler is needed.
02-03-2011, 10:36 PM
#4
Not sure if different stats are available.I have a big wing sump on my 3dr so it has 5 litres of oil in the engine so i should think that would help keep it cooler as well ??? Going to fit gauges very soon to see how the temp behave...
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04-03-2011, 06:41 AM
#9
I had a chat with John Rolands a lab technician @ Fuchs Lubricants about oil grades and temps.He advised me not to over cool the oil and agreed that oil coolers are not needed when you have the correct grade of oil and temp to suit your engine.
04-03-2011, 07:21 AM
#10
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i think the best thing to do john is get an oil temp gauge in the car and then next time you take it on track see what temp's your getting,then you'll know for sure weather you need 1 or not 
04-03-2011, 01:53 PM
#12
Advanced PassionFord User
I know it is prohibitive to some people but we always use laminova heat exchangers for all the oil systems, laminova's have the effect of being an oil conditioner, bringing the oil up to temperature faster and operating within a stable band giving reliable oil tempertures...
We used to suffer terribly with power steering systems that have coolers, in winter they would massively over cool the PSF causing the steering to become heavy and vague, the use of laminova eliminates all such problems.
They are more expensive initally but when you add up the cost of thermostatic sandwich plates and additional pipe the laminova can end up being similar and in the event of a failure and foreign objects being shoved into your oil cooler, a laminova can be stripped and serviced...
We used to suffer terribly with power steering systems that have coolers, in winter they would massively over cool the PSF causing the steering to become heavy and vague, the use of laminova eliminates all such problems.
They are more expensive initally but when you add up the cost of thermostatic sandwich plates and additional pipe the laminova can end up being similar and in the event of a failure and foreign objects being shoved into your oil cooler, a laminova can be stripped and serviced...
04-03-2011, 03:17 PM
#13
PassionFord Post Troll
I know it is prohibitive to some people but we always use laminova heat exchangers for all the oil systems, laminova's have the effect of being an oil conditioner, bringing the oil up to temperature faster and operating within a stable band giving reliable oil tempertures...
We used to suffer terribly with power steering systems that have coolers, in winter they would massively over cool the PSF causing the steering to become heavy and vague, the use of laminova eliminates all such problems.
They are more expensive initally but when you add up the cost of thermostatic sandwich plates and additional pipe the laminova can end up being similar and in the event of a failure and foreign objects being shoved into your oil cooler, a laminova can be stripped and serviced...
We used to suffer terribly with power steering systems that have coolers, in winter they would massively over cool the PSF causing the steering to become heavy and vague, the use of laminova eliminates all such problems.
They are more expensive initally but when you add up the cost of thermostatic sandwich plates and additional pipe the laminova can end up being similar and in the event of a failure and foreign objects being shoved into your oil cooler, a laminova can be stripped and serviced...
07-03-2011, 08:37 PM
#19
Just got the bits to fit a thermostated one, so also interested in the responses from those in the know.
I assume that the stat will only be doing anything during warmup, allowing the oil to come upto temp quickly.
When the car is used hard i'd expect the stat to be open but not neccesarily keeping the temp just above 80ish, i guess it depends upon the size of the cooler, if it IS OVERSIZED. However, it can always be partially covered when the ambient temps are cool, and fully utilised during hot summer months.
I assume that the stat will only be doing anything during warmup, allowing the oil to come upto temp quickly.
When the car is used hard i'd expect the stat to be open but not neccesarily keeping the temp just above 80ish, i guess it depends upon the size of the cooler, if it IS OVERSIZED. However, it can always be partially covered when the ambient temps are cool, and fully utilised during hot summer months.
07-03-2011, 10:09 PM
#21
I have been saying the same thing for YEARS 
. On a Cosworth, do not fit an oil cooler unless the oil CONSISTANTLY goes above 120 degrees. The Cosworth rally boys AIM for a consistant 110 degrees, as this is the best working temp for these cars, and it also burns off any impurities leading to better condition oil (if it is kept too cool, condensation can build up from the constant heating and cooling process). Most Cossie owners don't even see the figure the 110 figure, but still think fitting an oil cooler is a good idea LOL.
. On a Cosworth, do not fit an oil cooler unless the oil CONSISTANTLY goes above 120 degrees. The Cosworth rally boys AIM for a consistant 110 degrees, as this is the best working temp for these cars, and it also burns off any impurities leading to better condition oil (if it is kept too cool, condensation can build up from the constant heating and cooling process). Most Cossie owners don't even see the figure the 110 figure, but still think fitting an oil cooler is a good idea LOL.
08-03-2011, 07:22 AM
#22
I have been saying the same thing for YEARS . On a Cosworth, do not fit an oil cooler unless the oil CONSISTANTLY goes above 120 degrees. The Cosworth rally boys AIM for a consistant 110 degrees, as this is the best working temp for these cars, and it also burns off any impurities leading to better condition oil (if it is kept too cool, condensation can build up from the constant heating and cooling process). Most Cossie owners don't even see the figure the 110 figure, but still think fitting an oil cooler is a good idea LOL.
. On a Cosworth, do not fit an oil cooler unless the oil CONSISTANTLY goes above 120 degrees. The Cosworth rally boys AIM for a consistant 110 degrees, as this is the best working temp for these cars, and it also burns off any impurities leading to better condition oil (if it is kept too cool, condensation can build up from the constant heating and cooling process). Most Cossie owners don't even see the figure the 110 figure, but still think fitting an oil cooler is a good idea LOL.
08-03-2011, 07:25 PM
#24
20K+ Super Poster.
So what happens when you have been blatting around at speed then come to a traffic jam ?, studies in the states suggest that oil typically runs at 30C more than the water temp on average, the above condition causes the heat soak, something that nobody can prevent, spiking the oil temp, I used to see regularly 130C on the road in my 4i for example, with a stat to control the oil temps it is kept as near optimum as possible, can't be a bad system, EVERY car uses it for the water temps.
I wouldn't fit a cooler without a stat myself, just my opinion, don't give a toss what others say, that's up to them, and up to everyone to do what they think is right, but the cooler you keep the oil to a point the thicker it is helping to prevent breakdown of the oil.
tabetha
I wouldn't fit a cooler without a stat myself, just my opinion, don't give a toss what others say, that's up to them, and up to everyone to do what they think is right, but the cooler you keep the oil to a point the thicker it is helping to prevent breakdown of the oil.
tabetha
09-03-2011, 09:29 AM
#25
So what happens when you have been blatting around at speed then come to a traffic jam ?, studies in the states suggest that oil typically runs at 30C more than the water temp on average, the above condition causes the heat soak, something that nobody can prevent, spiking the oil temp, I used to see regularly 130C on the road in my 4i for example, with a stat to control the oil temps it is kept as near optimum as possible, can't be a bad system, EVERY car uses it for the water temps.
I wouldn't fit a cooler without a stat myself, just my opinion, don't give a toss what others say, that's up to them, and up to everyone to do what they think is right, but the cooler you keep the oil to a point the thicker it is helping to prevent breakdown of the oil.
tabetha
I wouldn't fit a cooler without a stat myself, just my opinion, don't give a toss what others say, that's up to them, and up to everyone to do what they think is right, but the cooler you keep the oil to a point the thicker it is helping to prevent breakdown of the oil.
tabetha
On my car, I have retained the original Mocal item and have a thermistatically (95°C, which is a cost option, as most open at 80°C) controlled Setrab 16 row cooler. Because I do track days, my water temps regularly see in excess of 100°C (often sitting at 110°C on 30°C ambient days), which obviously HEATS the oil and then the air to air cooler is used to stabilise it. On track I see perfect 100°C to 120°C temps (depending on ambients).
. You may have to send it back and swap over, as it is an option that has to be specified at time of ordering....
09-03-2011, 05:29 PM
#30
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I've got an oil cooler system on my Focus for the first time.
Its a thermostatic sandwich plate with a big 235mm by 25row cooler, but the cooler has a fan unit on it, as there was no room anywhere to mount it in direct airflow.
The oil seems to sit around 85-87 degreeswhen cruising according to the gauge. I dont do track days, its more of a point and squirt kinda car, but got the cooler setup for piece of mind if I do the odd track day or if I get over excited lol
I phoned Matt Potter about speccing them system, as I've never had one before. He said go big on the cooler as the engines doing 100bhp per cylinder, and because of the thermostatic plate it wont over cool the oil.
Do you think its worth getting the higher temp stat Mike?
Its a thermostatic sandwich plate with a big 235mm by 25row cooler, but the cooler has a fan unit on it, as there was no room anywhere to mount it in direct airflow.
The oil seems to sit around 85-87 degreeswhen cruising according to the gauge. I dont do track days, its more of a point and squirt kinda car, but got the cooler setup for piece of mind if I do the odd track day or if I get over excited lol
I phoned Matt Potter about speccing them system, as I've never had one before. He said go big on the cooler as the engines doing 100bhp per cylinder, and because of the thermostatic plate it wont over cool the oil.
Do you think its worth getting the higher temp stat Mike?
Last edited by simon170; 09-03-2011 at 05:30 PM.
09-03-2011, 09:31 PM
#31
Maybe on other cars, but the Cosworths already have a very efficient water cooled Mocal cooler as standard, which is equivalent to running a 13 row air to air cooler (which is why I think it is funny that people bypass this and fit an air to air cooler of the same size (13 row), little realising they have gained no improvement - other than increasing the time that the oil takes to get to operating temp LOL (see Ian's comments above regarding water-cooled oil coolers and their efficiencies)) and that maintains the oil at around engine water temp. In traffic I have never seen above 80°C.
On my car, I have retained the original Mocal item and have a thermistatically (95°C, which is a cost option, as most open at 80°C) controlled Setrab 16 row cooler. Because I do track days, my water temps regularly see in excess of 100°C (often sitting at 110°C on 30°C ambient days), which obviously HEATS the oil and then the air to air cooler is used to stabilise it. On track I see perfect 100°C to 120°C temps (depending on ambients).
On my car, I have retained the original Mocal item and have a thermistatically (95°C, which is a cost option, as most open at 80°C) controlled Setrab 16 row cooler. Because I do track days, my water temps regularly see in excess of 100°C (often sitting at 110°C on 30°C ambient days), which obviously HEATS the oil and then the air to air cooler is used to stabilise it. On track I see perfect 100°C to 120°C temps (depending on ambients).
10-03-2011, 09:28 AM
#33
I've got an oil cooler system on my Focus for the first time.
Its a thermostatic sandwich plate with a big 235mm by 25row cooler, but the cooler has a fan unit on it, as there was no room anywhere to mount it in direct airflow.
The oil seems to sit around 85-87 degreeswhen cruising according to the gauge. I dont do track days, its more of a point and squirt kinda car, but got the cooler setup for piece of mind if I do the odd track day or if I get over excited lol
I phoned Matt Potter about speccing them system, as I've never had one before. He said go big on the cooler as the engines doing 100bhp per cylinder, and because of the thermostatic plate it wont over cool the oil.
Do you think its worth getting the higher temp stat Mike?
Its a thermostatic sandwich plate with a big 235mm by 25row cooler, but the cooler has a fan unit on it, as there was no room anywhere to mount it in direct airflow.
The oil seems to sit around 85-87 degreeswhen cruising according to the gauge. I dont do track days, its more of a point and squirt kinda car, but got the cooler setup for piece of mind if I do the odd track day or if I get over excited lol
I phoned Matt Potter about speccing them system, as I've never had one before. He said go big on the cooler as the engines doing 100bhp per cylinder, and because of the thermostatic plate it wont over cool the oil.
Do you think its worth getting the higher temp stat Mike?
11-03-2011, 12:05 AM
#36
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Not sure, the oil temp gauge went in at the same time as the cooler setup. Although the 85-87 has been on cold days (not had the car back long from its rebuild) and yet to be run in summer.
If this was your car (I know I know... Its not a Cossy
) would you stay with the normal stat or get the higher temp one? Be interestedto hear your opinion.BTW I took your advice you gave me on suspension when we chatted at Brands last year. Many thanks.
