12_Second_rst

iTrader: (1)

how hard is it to put a zetec in to a fiesta st?

also what box does the st use?


cheers

XRT_si

iTrader: (2)

They go straight in.

ST170 six speed box just needs a mount made up to or you can use a IB5 box possibly but not seen one done that way yet.

12_Second_rst

iTrader: (1)

will an mtx75 fit?

XRT_si

iTrader: (2)

Yes it will but a lot more messing around I think, though again not had experience with fitting one.

zippyobrien

iTrader: (2)

Take it u want to go black top turbo ? Go over to st owners club. Ask there.

But unless u have a ready built turbo lump to go in id stick with the duratec, far superior engine.

St uses a ib5 and there crap when u start pushing. I've broke one in a standard car. Going quaiff diff makes them stronger.

Any change in box will need custom drive shafts

Lee

XRT_si

iTrader: (2)

No it won't

SiST

iTrader: (1)

XRT si - I presume you know Alex by the way you are answering the questions - he would be the man to ask - http://www.ukfiestanetwork.com/index...owtopic=145727

If you have a built engine then go for it but I wouldn't underestimate the duratec - great engine! Yes you can fit an MTX75 with some playing about.

MannheimAlex

Out of interest, is there a 6speed conversion for the ST?

Ebonycossie4x4

iTrader: (4)

could they not use Focus St

SiST

iTrader: (1)

Nope completely different type of engine - fiesta is Duratec I4 from Ford/Mazda and Focus ST is I5 from volvo mate - different fitting.

No readily available conversion at the moment and struggling to see why you would want to - I was gonna look at making one a bit ago but MTX ticks all the boxes tbh. That said the mk3 mondeo had a 1.8 duratec Sci engine in it for a limited time with a 6 speed box - that could fit but the gear ratios would be pants for a small hatchback.

Ebonycossie4x4

iTrader: (4)

duh lol....

Forgot about it being a Volvo originated engine.

Pity as it seems a great gearbox and has 6 speed

MannheimAlex

Havnt thought about the ratios tbh, but a 6th gear would be great for autobahn use. It`s really screaming at 100mph!

rapid3door

better off turboing your st engine thats what i had in my series 1

excursion

The Zetec has greater structural rigidity thanks to the iron block and is a better proposition for long term reliability. The Duratec is a very harsh engine, I don't like it at all. The Zetec is obviously considerably heavier hanks to the block.

In Turbo form 300+ from both engines is relatively straight forward.

Fiesta ST uses a third generation iB5, as already stated it is still a weak 'box. MTX and Getrag are a relatively straight forward proposition.

ST Turbo

Depends what power you want to be honest! Duratecs are good engines if you want to supercharge them, and low power turbo'd ones are also ok!

Its when your looking to go over 300bhp, then you need to find a new box, expecially on a turbo application as the IB5's are poo as someone has already said! Also the duratecs have poo heads and on turbo'd lumps the heads dont seem to like it and crack around the exhaust ports!

As XRT-Si has said, there is a duratec engine in the mondeo which should have the same bell housing as the ST150 lump, so maybe the mtx box in that could bolt up to it, but im not 100%!

And by the way, fitting a diff in the IB5 box does not make the box stronger lol!

I got, i mean i had a 435bhp zetec turbo on a six speed box in an ST! And im looking at building another one....

zippyobrien

iTrader: (2)

Poorly worded, IME its the diff that let's go and promptly fuck off out the casing, upratin the diff stops this weakness

ST Turbo

Apologies for the grammar!

Im sure you will find that the main problem with the IB5 is the main shaft bearing being a bit on the small/weak side, hence why jamsport offer a big bearing upgrade kit!

I agree on thing that upgrading the diff to an LSD or ATB will be far superior to the standard item.

I hope you can understand this response as it has taken me a while to make sure it is legible!

by the way, upratin is not the correct spelling, it is actually spelt 'uprating' with a g on the end mate!

thanks lololololololololol

XRT_si

iTrader: (2)

Standard MTX boxes are known for that, never heard that being a common problem for the BC/IB5 though.

I've broke a few BC boxes and never had a diff go.

JayCC

I think you'll find he was suggesting that it was his own response that was poorly worded..

clarke5700

as said i realy i have also broken a few bc/ib5 gearboxs yet never has the diff broken it seems to be the strongest part imo

SiST

iTrader: (1)

I have never heard about the heads cracking - who told you that? Would be good to see if there are any amendments to the Ecoboost to amend this if thats the case.

I have mentioned with the 'box to change it - there are proven solutions already available.

ST Turbo

If thats the case, then i take the sarcasm back!

XRT_si

iTrader: (2)

Never heard of it myself either, although I know Ian Howell had problems, but that was 600+bhp and I don't think it was the head that cracked?


That was sarcasm?!

ST Turbo

I have been told that there isnt sufficient water cooling around the exhaust ports, and obviously turbo engines have much higher exhaust gas temps, and the heat travels back down to the head and creates problem!

The main prob is, theres only one person i know of that has made a big power duratec, and that is Ian howell, and like XRT-si has said, his didnt fail due to the head i dont think. But from what i have read there is a problem with the heads...

Yep so you did, theres always ways around making things fit! But where i havent actually looked into finding ways of using the duratec i dont know too much of whats available nowadays! I would be very interested to see if the new mondeo box fits the ST150 lump... As that is an mtx 75 i think and would be a pretty successful upgrade!

zippyobrien

iTrader: (2)

My bad fella, I ment my poor wording.
I'm only quoting from experience, had 2 boxes blow the diff of my zetec s (standard puma power, one came out the top, and one went through the bell housing and took out the flywheel) and blew the diff in the gf fiesta st. There pretty much the same box.

Never broke a main shaft though I have been told the weak. I also heard a lot of the zs tdi boys have box troubles due to the tourque.


As a side, find the shift very vauge and dissapionting in the st compaired the the mk5 zs .

Appolagise once more st turbo.

Lee

SiZT

Ian's cracked the block at 450bhp IIRC, though you can buy special drag racing blocks at a very reasonable () $6,000.

ST Turbo

You are prob just very unfortunate i've never heard of the diff going to be honest, but i will take you word for it! The IB5 boxes are known to be weak, so i just would advise against them for anything over 250bhp, if not less, thats on a turbo'd engine, supercharged prob will take more due to the power delivery!

zetaboostboy522bhp

spot on

although ians never cracked the block the whole fucking corner fell off
also duratec heads are far better than zetecs and ive never heard of them having problems it just the shit blocks , be warned stay well away.

the jamsport big bearing kit is for the bc box isnt it as people use the larger bearings from the ib5 box , they just machine the case to accept the ib5 bearing and all that does is help with flex , it doesnt make it ant stronger , and if quaife only rated there straight cut gearset at 265 bhp and the same torgue then i think that spells out how shit they are , just fit the far larger and bulky gearbox mtx or getrag

cheers paul

SiST

iTrader: (1)

Hi Paul

Do you have the spec of Ians engine? Purely out of curiousity.

Thanks, Si

Ginge !

REALLY !!!!,,,,,, you mean that by changing the diff the bearings and the cogs with become stronger,,,,,,,, fucking hell THATS what ive been fucked up with !!!

you are aware what a fucking differential actually is,,,,,,, and what it does blah blah blah

google is your friend !!!

SiST

iTrader: (1)

Why get so picky?? It is the differential bearing that is the weak point in the box.

Ginge !

you just get your leg better so i can start fitting my gearbox,,,,, im gonna change the diff in it though before i let you drive it again as then i know i will be fine pmsl

oh and the diff came out the TOP of the gearbox,,,,,,and took out the flywheel aswell

sorry but i wanna see pics of this one,,,,,, and there is NO fucking chance that the mechanic never took pics when that turned up unless you woke up before you had time to charge the camera ????

zetaboostboy522bhp

i think it was the following

forged pistons 7:45:1
h beam rods
custom fardon crank
custom gridle
pace stage 3 dry sump system
custom cylinder head (Ł2500+ worth of development by cnc heads as he told me not to mention the cost to his wife lol)
big valves , uprated valve springs etc etc
custom made cams
custom fly wheel and 3 plate clutch
pulleys all alloy
t 72 turbonetics turbo
custom made twin scroll manifold
turbosmart wastegate
t6 pectel
custom made 8 injector inlet manifold
cosworth duratec throttle body

thats a rough spec , iam sure there was more but i cant remember tbh
to be fare i was going well 478bhp at 10psi then it all went tits up, around Ł30,000 he told me give or take a few quid thats why he just gave up as the only solution was the drag block and he didnt want to spend anymore cash on it
the olsberg wrc rally car uses a custom block and head to get there 850 bhp

cheers paul

zippyobrien

iTrader: (2)

Read what I wrote you arrogant Cunt. Diff came through the bell housing, hitting the clutch cover thus ripping it of. Several people from this forum have seen the damaged boxs.

Bearings went and forced diff out. I am well awear how a diff works but 99 % of people have anough of a life and basic understanding to no what I mean with out having to write a essay.

As said I may have been unlucky, but killed 2 at 135 bhp so I wouldn't want to chance one in a turbo or rs turbo (i no karlos has one and had a chat with him at the time about the diff issue )

And I did the box my self so how wpuld a mechanic take a picture ?

Good day

zippyobrien

iTrader: (2)

And when I say came out, I mean jumped of bearing forcing the casing to crack. On the box that the diff came out of the top the entire speedo drive area is missing.

That's with r888 and 135 bhp, was cornering at the time, not launching either

Ginge !

mate i know that any major damage done to ANY car done thats radical,,, well we all reach for our camera phone,,,,,, even when someone smashed hes legs and toes up and lost alot of money writing his car off,,,,,he still took photos to show just how bad the damage is

you had a diff smash through the casing at 135bhp on a set of slick tyres and take out a clutch,,,,,, you seen all that YET you couldnt be arsed to take a photo ????

im just the same,,,,, id never take pictures of once in a life time moments,,,,, its just human nature

oh,,,, and you think a new diff makes a box stronger,,, dont think i need to carry on anymore if im honest to see what your true engineering skills are like

take a gearbox apart one day, have a look at the size of a diff bearing then the size of the layshaft bearing and then the size of the syncros,,,,,,, and imagine how much force its gonna take to get that diff to move as you discribe and then explain why that same force missed the layshaft bearing,,,,,, where the ACTUAL POWER is getting the full shot before the syncros cushion it to ease the presure and then transmit to the output shaft and finally onto the adjusted ratios onto the diff,,,,, that has that strong plant gears rather than stripping even them teeth,,,,,, it locks them with such force that the secure diff bearings manage to ripp apart the cash gearbox,,,,,, not even spin the wheels as them R888's are so grippy you could drive up a wall and park the car

hope you see where im comming from with you smashed diff through the top of a gearbox but forgot to take photos incident

Ginge !

you see this photo.... do you get why i struggle with the idea the diff came out the top of the gearbox,,,,,,, not to mention the car you are taking about the engine is tilted backward aswell compared to a old escort

zippyobrien

iTrader: (2)

I get what your saying mate. And I also get that it doesn't physically make the box stronger, but removes a weakness I've found twice. It may well be that the two zs boxs I broke had worn diff bearings to start with.

But as said several users on this forum see the broken boxs including alexf. I'll see if I took some pics , think still have the fucked clutch assembally.

I don't gwt why u have such a problem with some one posting up there ezperiance. And not once did I say I was a mechanic or gearbox speciallist, I'm a machinists

As a side if u look at the casing around the diff it is thinner and less built up than the bc box fitted to rs turbos
I don't the the diff failed in my box, I think worn diff bearings and the case cracking was the problem.

Regards mate.
Lee.

ST Turbo

lol HINGE your being a bit harsh lol dont make me start the........

DOM DOM, DOM DOM. DOM DOM DOM DOM lol... u know what comes next lolol

zippyobrien

iTrader: (2)

He's not secretely darf vadder is he lol