the mk1 kid

Hi guys, i need some suggestions please!

I was asked to crack the head nuts/studs on an MF 165 tractor last night - it belongs to the other halfs old man and he expected them to be tight after 40 years.

Anyway, all 23 (yes odd, but the book verified this, and the full removal procedure) nuts came off without too mush fuss considering it's thought they had not been touched since new, but the head itself wouldn't budge!

It's a cast iron head so we didn't go easy on it but its stuck firm, and no amount of tickling it with a lump of 4"x2" and a hammer or attempts to lever it off got us anywhere.

Short of driving in a flat-head between the block and head (not even considering that!), or putting the engine crane on the head loops, what options are left??

I've removed plenty of heads in the past, but never met one this stubborn!!

Cheers

Tom

PS: I know i should of taken a photo, but the oil was thicker than porridge and had made a right old mess!

phil_focus

i think the crane is next mate.


if that fails turn it over and hope the compression blows the fucker off

zippyobrien

iTrader: (2)

Crank it over.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Turning over isnt a bad suggestion IMHO, not like its going to start with no manifolds etc on anyway, so wont do any harm (assuming its a cam in block engine which it must be at that age?)

Head probably weights so much that it could seem like its not wanting to budge when you try and move it even if there isnt much resistance.

Lifting eyes on the head were a good suggestion too, and once the strain is taken so that the bottom end is a cm off the ground (ie its taking all the weight on the head lifting eyes but doesnt have far to fall) then beat the bottom end with a sledge hammer to see if the vibrations will help shift it.

the mk1 kid

Unfortunately turning it over isn't an option otherwise that would have made for a fun alternative.

The whole things is to be stripped and rebuilt anyway, so worst comes to the worse we will take the sump off, drop the internals and 'tap' the head off from up through the liners!

Cheers

Tom

martynhomer01

iTrader: (1)

straps and forklift????????

the mk1 kid

The head will certainly be very heavy indeed - this is proper barn-door engineering as i'm sure you can imagine.

I'm pretty sure its stuck though - although the fulcrum wasn't perfectly 'placed' when we tried levering it off, it was having none of it, and the 1" dia 4' long steel bar i was hanging on was bending...

Crane it is i think.

Tom

the mk1 kid

Well forklift we haven't, loaders we have, so it's them or the more subtle approach of using the engine crane...

Tom

martynhomer01

iTrader: (1)

i'd try the loaders on it.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Drop the internals?

You mean that the pistons can come out the bottom of the bores?

Thats handy then!

Ive not seen any engines like that other than the old F1 monoblocks.

the mk1 kid

Only pisser with that is the location. I wont be back there until next weekend when we'll have another bash at it and get it off one way or another; it was abit late last night, and we'd only planned to crack the nuts...

Cheers

Tom

CarParts Express

try some heat on it?

the mk1 kid

Now there's a shout! Though the old boy will ultimately decide i'll definately suggest it.

Thanks

Tom

DazC

iTrader: (1)

Be careful hearing up a cast iron block. Don't want to crack it by heating it too much in one place.

Dexy

iTrader: (1)

Im just trying to get a hold of my mate for this one, he has done countless MF engine rebuilds and should have some ideas, once he answers his phone that is.

Mk1-stu

i'd go with brute force and ignorance, followed by more brute force and a bit more ignorance. I presume you've filled the bores with oil already and left it for a while to see if it works it way in and helps ?

Not entirely sure how you'd get the pistons out and tap the head up from underneath either as pretty much all cylinder bores are tapered so the pistons can only go out the top.

the mk1 kid

Will do - ta for the reminder

Thank you!

Apparently the pistons drop out the bottom according to the old man - although it was a good few years when he rebuilt the t20 he still swears by it.

Cheers guys

Tom

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Interesting, wonder how you fit a ring compressor on them to get them back in, or is it that you fit them from the top but they can come out either way?

DanW@FastFord

iTrader: (1)

Got any pics!

the mk1 kid

I thought the moment i started the thread i was going to regret not taking some, but i doubt he will touch it without me so there is still time.

Re the rings chip - i've no idea either. It did sound odd, but the story he told included an argument with his brother about the pistons, so it *should* of stuck in his mind.

Tom

tabetha

Is this the standard fit Perkins AD4 multi power unit ?
tabetha

RichieST

iTrader: (2)

Get some dry ice, get it into the bores somehow (plug holes etc), make sure it's properly sealed then keep your distance!!

As it boils off it will not stop building pressure until something gives!

left hooker

mf t20 were tvo engines

ajamesc

sounds like your in trouble lol ive seen old studed laylands like this and the only way to get the head off is to try and lift it a bit with wedges then cut the studs but leaveing enough to be able to get the stud out! i see a guy trying to pull the heads off a bus with straps and a fork lift and would just lift the bus lol have u tryed pouring hot oil all round it then leaveing it to soak while under tension with some wedges baged in iver side!

david 100

Many years ago i had a Massy Ferguson 178, we could not get the head off for a engine rebuild so me and the fitter removed the sump and i am sure the pistons came out the bottom and he shoved bit of 2x2 up number one bore and one up number four and jacked the head of with two trolly jacks, one under each bit off wood.
This was over twenty years ago but i am sure it worked.
We were warned by a older guy in the workshop to watch our eyes if we cranked it over as diesel squirting out between the head and block could blined you

xrmalin

Ive just asked my stepdad about this as he used to work on tractors like this all the way through his apprenticship.
He said its the studs that are holding on to it and to try putting it under tension and pour diesel around all the studs and leave it to soak in over night with the weight of the tractor on it that way the diesel should find its way down and free the studs up.
If that doesnt work he said to try and wind the studs out of the block.

david 100

Yea that what we done, jacked up the trollly jack to take the weight of the tractor, i think in the morning it done the job, as i said it was a long time ago