Christian and Beccy

iTrader: (14)

We have always had an issue with high gas consumption and I am now wondering if the fact that our Combi Boiler in the loft may be at least part of the reason? The Boiler is on the gable end of our bungalow and not enclosed, just in the open loft space. Do you think the fact that the Boiler is in a cold environment could be contributing to how much it costs to run? I reckon I'm going to box it into an insulated 'cupboard', but wondered what plumbers/heating engineers think about my idea?

dingla rs

iTrader: (2)

lag the pipes would be a start or extra if they lagd already

s1cab

iTrader: (1)

as above lag the pipes as far as possible. But the location of the boiler itself shouldn't make any difference at all..the flue pipe has two parts (a pipe inside another) one pipe lets the exhaust fumes out and the other is draws the air into the burner for the combustion (room sealed). All the heat exchanger/burner are all enclosed so won't effect these. all you can really do is lag as much of the heating, cold main and hot water pipes as far as possible. also check to where your boiler thermostat is set to.. this can make a huge difference on cost. most people think upto the maximum, but just over half way is plenty. I take it you have a room stat fitted ? also turn it down a few degrees and saves more money. hope this helps.

155lee

iTrader: (10)

what kind of boiler is it?is it old?is it a condensing boiler or just an old combi?

dojj

iTrader: (3)

"normally" the spot where you have your cold water heated up tends to be as close as possible to where you want your hot water to come out, which is why they are normally in the kitchen and the kitchen is above/below/next to the bath

if you are running the pipes from one end to the other then lagging certainly would help, but moving it might be the best in the long run

TIFF

Wont make any difference where it is located mate........ Has is been set up/commisioned correctly???

Steve the Plumber

iTrader: (11)

Your talking bollocks again Dojj.

dojj

iTrader: (3)

so do you normally put your boilers anywhere but the kitchen then?

no one, and i mean no one i've ever seen or visited or even houses i've viewed to buy in all my days has had their boiler anywhere but the kitchen, so that's why i've gone with the "normally"

i mean, where else would you put it?

so unless he's got a gas leak?

or it's too far away and it's kicking in because the water's getting cooler sooner in the radiators?

155lee

iTrader: (10)

i have fitted numerous boilers in lofts,in bedroom cupboards,garages etc.you have to fit them either where the owner wants it,where the conditions allow you,the flue can be a pain in the arse due to gas regulations.
if its miles away from the furthest hot tap it will waste gas heating water which wont be used but it wouldnt be that much water in a 3 bed normal house.
i used to work for transco and the amount of times we got called out to check for a leak and read a meter as folk had got a big bill,not 1 time did i find a leak.sometimes when you were doing other work you would find a leak the tenant didnt know about,or did and didnt report it.

Christian and Beccy

iTrader: (14)

Tiff, yes, its been properly commissioned and serviced (almost) annually. I recently had a Vaillant specialist out to take a look at it and he was happy that it was running correctly. I know I have other matters to look at, we are in the process of going large on the loft insulation. We have 100mm at best, but a few places have nothing. Most of the pipes are lagged. I just want to know we've done all we can. We chose to have it in the loft, so don't really want to move it. There is some waiting involved in getting hot water to the taps, but I reckon its the heating thats doing it. Well, that and Rosies lengthy hot showers, she seems to be the only one unwilling to make any compromises to lower our energy bills. I have discussed our high gas bills many times on here, but never the matter of the boiler being 'cold'.

Considering what the boiler is (Vaillant Turbomax 837e), it is MORE than capable of what we want from it, but I still have to have the heating temp on the boiler set high for the rooms to stand a chance of getting warm enough. Our room stat is set to 21°. I guess we'll see what its like when we sort the insulation, which we are doing during November. There is alot of sorting out to do in our loft before we can properly insulate and we are gradually getting rid of the GU10 downlighters, so want to do that and finish all the electrical bits-and-pieces before rolling another 170mm of insulation over the whole lot.

rstdave

iTrader: (3)

Pmsl, bit of a sweeping statement....you've never seen a boiler in an airing cupboard for example, they don't tend to be in the vacinity of the kitchen

mrjenrst

Think i've only ever seen 1 in a kitchen! Ours isnt

Christian and Beccy

iTrader: (14)

When you have a stylish/modern kitchen, a Boiler just doesn't fit in. Thats why we chose to put it right out of the way.

mrjenrst

*dojj not modern*

mrjenrst

*dojj not stylish*

Christian and Beccy

iTrader: (14)

Christian and Beccy

iTrader: (14)

That said, the do usually put the boiler above the worktop in council houses I have seen. Just sayin'.

Spax

My oil fired boiler is hung on the garden wall

dingla rs

iTrader: (2)

i fit most oil boilers out side now ,bit different to gas tho

155lee

iTrader: (10)

*dojjs's kitchen nightmare*

dojj

iTrader: (3)

my boilers in the kitchen in both houses, ones up on the wall and has a cabinet built around it, and one is up on the wall and has a full lengths cabinet around it and i'm not saying they weren't ALL in the kitchens previously, ours was in one of the chimney breasts so when we had it out we put it into the kitchen as it was the closest place for the gas and had a wall to put the flue out of, same with everyone else, but now they are ALL in the kitchen built into a unit of a cabinet some place why would you want to run miles of pipework when you can have it all done in the shortest length possible? there must be a max run of about 10 feet to the hot water taps in the kitchen and not more than 20 feet to the furthest tap in the bath

dojj

iTrader: (3)

but you've probably got the space to put it out of sight, most london properlties don't have the sapce so they get put where they are going to be put, which is in the kitchen

H20LRW

iTrader: (1)

Dojj is right is one small respect, you will get less of a delay in the feed from the hot water the nearer the tap.

but only the one thing

L

stevenebm

iTrader: (6)

i know loads of people with theres upstairs and quite a few people with it in there garage thats bolted on to the house.shouldnt matter if its at one end of the house or the other.

Christian and Beccy

iTrader: (14)

Although my boiler is in the loft, it is directly above the kitchen, which is adjacent to the bathroom. I can honestly say that the water has to go much less distance to my bathroom from the boiler in the loft than where it originally was before we moved it.

I'm pinning my hopes on insulation, for Rosie's sake. If that doesn't fix it, I'll be dealing with her hot showers by shutting the hot valve right down.

stevenebm

iTrader: (6)

surprising where you can hide em.we didnt have much choice but i reckon it fits in not to bad in the cupboard to the right.

Steve the Plumber

iTrader: (11)

My storage combi is in the loft, but as I completely re piped my house its got the right sized piping and the hw runs are as short and direct as possible to the furthest tap outlet.

dojj

iTrader: (3)

if it's that close then it's either a leak or rosie spends too long in the shower

on the other hand, what price plan are you on?

Dunccoss

As its a Valliant have you got the warm start feature turned on (it will have a C in the display if you have) ? as this keeps the boiler at a nice 65 temp ready for when you open a hot tap great if you are in all day not so great if you are out all day plus your boiler is in a nice cold roof space which means its gets cooler quicker and then has to warm its self up more using more gas and the best thing is your not evern at home needed it

cheers
dunc

also see how many units of gas you have used (read your meter also will say on your bill) as gas has gone up quite a bit but see what you are using and report back

Christian and Beccy

iTrader: (14)

We did lag all our under floor pipework (suspended floors), but I wish we'd tried harder to make sure it was 100%. I'm sure its not far off, but its one of those things we can't easily go back and do anything about.

Christian and Beccy

iTrader: (14)

It has got the hot start function. We've never used it, I can't get my head round whether it would save us money or not?

Your theory about the cold boiler needing to warm up in its cold environment is pretty much my concern and why I think I'm going to box it in. Kinda like a car taking twice as long to warm up in winter than it does in the summer.

vaughant

iTrader: (1)

Mines in the loft and works great,granted it takes a touch longer to get to the kitchen sink and the utility but it's seconds really,perfectly liveable.

If you think about it guys,dojj could never put the boiler in the garage.............the heat coming from it may have damaged the bentley paintwork!!!!

dojj

iTrader: (3)

and the fact that it's 100 foot away has nothing to do with it

still got it btw, and he's still paying me Ł100 a week to park it there so say what you want about it

Dunccoss

sounds like you need to get your insulation sorted and go from there as its no good heating your house up and then lossing it out the roof and walls but the warm start is a great feature and saves water plus you dont have to wait for the boiler to kick in and worth trying as you may find it suits you better

just turn the hot water to max and the letter C will apear then you can turn the hot water down to what you want and as long as you dont turn it to min the warm start will stay on, if you want to turn it off then turn the water to min and the C will go and then turn the water back up to what you want and as long as you dont turn it to max it wont switch back on but you can easy tell just make sure the C is not on

Steve the Plumber

iTrader: (11)

C&B,

Who do you get your gas from and what tarif are you on?

Do you pay by Direct debit?

Lawbags

How long do you run it for every day?
As in, does it come on in the morning and off at night?
I know its obvious, but if the house in empty in the day, have it coming on 1/2 hour before you get up and run it for an hour while you get ready for work etc.

Or, turn it down a few degress and put an extra jumper on. Sounds silly, but it will save you a fortune.

I get calls all the time for stuff like high bills etc and its amazing how many people run the heating all day.
Do you have a spare room? Is the rad off in it? Got the heat reflective film behind the rads? Also double glazing?

All the little things add up to a good saving at the end of each month!

s1cab

iTrader: (1)

a good money saver... when you run a bath in your house do you use the cold tap? if you do all your doing is throwing your money away. you pay to heat your hot water up and fill the bath, then just put the cold tap on to cool it down...?? so adjust your water temp on your boiler. once its set to your perfect temp you should run a bath with only your hot tap to be most efficient

Christian and Beccy

iTrader: (14)

Yip, already do that.

cossie4i+

iTrader: (15)

How much do you pay per month for your gas then ?

Steve

s1cab

iTrader: (1)

do you have cavity walls? if you have getting them insulated makes a huge difference !