Know anything about employment law ?
09-06-2010, 03:46 PM
#1
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Know anything about employment law ?
To keep this simple,
When i started the government paid 1/3 of my wages and the company got a grant of £1k, £500 when i started and £500 after 6 months employment. 6 Months is up on the 13th of this month.
My employer changes my days off with 30 mins notice of end of a shift, tells me i'm to work days i'm rota'd not to 30 mins before shift start,
I turn up for work only to be sent home - no reason givin, then told this counts as a day off ????
All this has started since i threatened legal action over a pay diispute.
Am i looking at a case for constructive dismissal?
ANY help/ideas appreciated.
Cheers
When i started the government paid 1/3 of my wages and the company got a grant of £1k, £500 when i started and £500 after 6 months employment. 6 Months is up on the 13th of this month.
My employer changes my days off with 30 mins notice of end of a shift, tells me i'm to work days i'm rota'd not to 30 mins before shift start,
I turn up for work only to be sent home - no reason givin, then told this counts as a day off ????
All this has started since i threatened legal action over a pay diispute.
Am i looking at a case for constructive dismissal?
ANY help/ideas appreciated.
Cheers
09-06-2010, 04:54 PM
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You need to write every thing down dates and times keep a record of everything. If you have been full time over a year you have more rights. You will need to look at your contract. check out acas and citizens advice.
09-06-2010, 05:00 PM
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Chop, good memory, didn't think too many would pick up on that.
Nah, as a registered addict, i was/am entitled to all sorts of stuff (but i'm no scrounger). That aside though, the company know about my past, but don't know at the same time if you know what i mean.
1 day sick in 6 months, 1 late attendance, because of my past i've worked HARD to stay squeeky clean, no pun intended.
The government payment came through 'new deal', basicaly anybodys who's been long term unemployed (which i hadn't) but was an incentive for an employer to take on someone with my history.
I pay for my 'script, the only one (out of about 90) who does in my town.
With rgards to my contract, its a non starter. Can't get a copy, it just aint happenin. However according to ACAS there is no legal need for them to provide me with a copy anyways.
They MUST however provide a 'written statement of particulars' within 2 months of employment commencing. Haven't seen that either.
Feel like i'm being backed into a corner to be forced to leave, which will cause financial penalties for training costs etc....... Not an option.
Already recoding details.
Nah, as a registered addict, i was/am entitled to all sorts of stuff (but i'm no scrounger). That aside though, the company know about my past, but don't know at the same time if you know what i mean.
1 day sick in 6 months, 1 late attendance, because of my past i've worked HARD to stay squeeky clean, no pun intended.
The government payment came through 'new deal', basicaly anybodys who's been long term unemployed (which i hadn't) but was an incentive for an employer to take on someone with my history.
I pay for my 'script, the only one (out of about 90) who does in my town.
With rgards to my contract, its a non starter. Can't get a copy, it just aint happenin. However according to ACAS there is no legal need for them to provide me with a copy anyways.
They MUST however provide a 'written statement of particulars' within 2 months of employment commencing. Haven't seen that either.
Feel like i'm being backed into a corner to be forced to leave, which will cause financial penalties for training costs etc....... Not an option.
Already recoding details.
09-06-2010, 10:12 PM
#6
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Difficult one without obviously going into your non existant contract but a lot of companies are now offering zero hour contracts which effectivley means they can do what they want.without prying too much,can u say what you do or what industry your in as I used to be a union rep for ford motor company and I've dealt with a lot of these problems.you should somewhere have some sort of detail regarding your employment hours etc,pay dispute or otherwise.where I worked you had to be given 7days notice of a change of shift,in writing and if you were asked to change before that you recieved premium payment BUT I'm on the other side of the fence now and I never offer my boys that sort of thing.I don't pay bank holidays and Xmas is your time off and therefore unpaid so yes I've become a bastard in that respect but what I'm getting at is all employers ate different so get all the facts together first before you act.as bad as this sounds if you went there on some sort of new deal scheme then sadly I'd imagine your employer is a bit wank and offers you the least amount of protection as they probably play on the fact your a former addict and suggest that there doing u a favour by employing you etc etc.sorry if that sounds callous but I know how these big companies work,my opinion is your trying hard to keep on the right road and should be applauded for that.
09-06-2010, 10:16 PM
#7
tread very carefully.
There are lots of companies taking the piss out of the government new deal scheme. lots of call centres do it. Also the government pays money to companies creating new jobs so every 6-9 months they make the job role "redundant" sack everyone then a few weeks later take on new staff again for the "new" job which is the same as the old one with a couple of minor additions so it counts as a "new job" and they get government grants and also new deal payments for those over 6 months.
Happened to my housemate recently!!
Its also common practice with agency staff as often the contract has the agency paying wages for first month or so to remove risk so they can end up getting a good 2/3 months free employees!!
There are lots of companies taking the piss out of the government new deal scheme. lots of call centres do it. Also the government pays money to companies creating new jobs so every 6-9 months they make the job role "redundant" sack everyone then a few weeks later take on new staff again for the "new" job which is the same as the old one with a couple of minor additions so it counts as a "new job" and they get government grants and also new deal payments for those over 6 months.
Happened to my housemate recently!!
Its also common practice with agency staff as often the contract has the agency paying wages for first month or so to remove risk so they can end up getting a good 2/3 months free employees!!
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10-06-2010, 02:12 AM
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With rgards to my contract, its a non starter. Can't get a copy, it just aint happenin. However according to ACAS there is no legal need for them to provide me with a copy anyways.
They MUST however provide a 'written statement of particulars' within 2 months of employment commencing. Haven't seen that either.
Feel like i'm being backed into a corner to be forced to leave, which will cause financial penalties for training costs etc....... Not an option.
Already recoding details.
They MUST however provide a 'written statement of particulars' within 2 months of employment commencing. Haven't seen that either.
Feel like i'm being backed into a corner to be forced to leave, which will cause financial penalties for training costs etc....... Not an option.
Already recoding details.
It is relevant to note that unfair dismissal claims in the ET can only be brought after one years service unless the employee is dismissed for an 'automatically unfair reason' where they can make a claim no matter how long the employment has lasted.
Last edited by Isaac.Hunt; 10-06-2010 at 02:16 AM.
10-06-2010, 03:26 AM
#9
sadly its just the facts of a jobmarket where in almost all sectors job seekers outweighs jobs often by several hundred applicants per job!!
We as employees are now totally disposable assets replaceable in minutes. And thats not just unskilled work either! most of the trades and skilled jobs are the same (with a few highly skilled exceptions which are still in shortage).
Just something we are going to have to get used to for the next 5 years or so until things pick up.
10-06-2010, 06:07 AM
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to be honest mate the way things are at the moment,and so many people out of work,i think they would just say be happy u got a job.
and these days you have to be flexable with hours
sorry.
and these days you have to be flexable with hours
sorry.
10-06-2010, 06:09 AM
#12
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Sounds like there doing what Warren suggested although I would of thought that the scheme would have some sort of a clause to stop them doing just that!
What was the pay dispute about? Sounds like you stung a wound for them ...
Me personally, if I ask someone to come in and all of a sudden there's no work for them on that shift, then I still pay them a full shift. I won't send them home till half the shift is over though. I can see if from both points of view. Why waste your time and funds getting to work to be told to go home when your willing to work. You can't pay for their mistakes.
Oh and well done for staying clean
What was the pay dispute about? Sounds like you stung a wound for them ...
Me personally, if I ask someone to come in and all of a sudden there's no work for them on that shift, then I still pay them a full shift. I won't send them home till half the shift is over though. I can see if from both points of view. Why waste your time and funds getting to work to be told to go home when your willing to work. You can't pay for their mistakes.
Oh and well done for staying clean
10-06-2010, 11:53 AM
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Cheers for the input guys, especially the must be a year before unfair dismissal bit.
OK, to clarify a few things. I mainly make my earnings by fixing any I.T issues people are having, but it's purely ad-hoc, not a true business just extra cash. (Need back on my feet asap) So i Also work for a local takeaway chain (11 outlets accrosss central scotland) this is where i'm having the bother.
They don't officially know anything about my previous lifestyle shall we say, as far as they're concerned i'm just a run of the mill guy, perhaps with a bit more of a brain than thier used to dealing with.
With regards to the pay dispute thing, (visa deficit on a day i was off, i have the end of day report from the manager who's responsible, so i shouldn't be involved anyways, trying to save his own bacon) they took such a portion of my wages that it works out that i worked for a little over 70p per hour one week, yep, thats £0.70 per hour for 58 hours work.
I pointed out verbally, and then followed immediately in writing that legaly they can take no more than 10% of my gross earnings and if the deficit wasn't repaid sharpish i'd see them in court. I also (perhaps foolishly knowing my employer) pointed out that taking the court route would open the flood gates for other members of staff to do the same.
The direct.gov site was sourced & quoted. They responded by phone almost instantly saying sorry they didn't know blah blah blah all would be fixed. It's hasn't, its just started rolling downhill.
Just really sick of thier shite, i know it sounds daft but have enough goin on in my life that the added stress/hastle is becomin too much. Today i'm debating flipping a coin to bother going in or not. If they want to be childish with me.................... ( I know this isn't the smart answer, but way i'm feeling) 2 can play daft games.
OK, to clarify a few things. I mainly make my earnings by fixing any I.T issues people are having, but it's purely ad-hoc, not a true business just extra cash. (Need back on my feet asap) So i Also work for a local takeaway chain (11 outlets accrosss central scotland) this is where i'm having the bother.
They don't officially know anything about my previous lifestyle shall we say, as far as they're concerned i'm just a run of the mill guy, perhaps with a bit more of a brain than thier used to dealing with.
With regards to the pay dispute thing, (visa deficit on a day i was off, i have the end of day report from the manager who's responsible, so i shouldn't be involved anyways, trying to save his own bacon) they took such a portion of my wages that it works out that i worked for a little over 70p per hour one week, yep, thats £0.70 per hour for 58 hours work.
I pointed out verbally, and then followed immediately in writing that legaly they can take no more than 10% of my gross earnings and if the deficit wasn't repaid sharpish i'd see them in court. I also (perhaps foolishly knowing my employer) pointed out that taking the court route would open the flood gates for other members of staff to do the same.
The direct.gov site was sourced & quoted. They responded by phone almost instantly saying sorry they didn't know blah blah blah all would be fixed. It's hasn't, its just started rolling downhill.
Just really sick of thier shite, i know it sounds daft but have enough goin on in my life that the added stress/hastle is becomin too much. Today i'm debating flipping a coin to bother going in or not. If they want to be childish with me.................... ( I know this isn't the smart answer, but way i'm feeling) 2 can play daft games.
Last edited by Roscco; 10-06-2010 at 11:55 AM.
10-06-2010, 12:44 PM
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Just emailed this..
Originally Posted by Roscco
** *****,
This morning i have been in contact with, ACAS, my solicitor, the police and The C.A.B and the Job Centre.
Firstly, following on from my email on sunday 6th June 2010, and your subsiquent reply by phone, i'd like to ask why the shortfall (of say £***) in my wages has not yet been repaid ?
I was assured by you it would be, and i'm now in a position where it needs to be. We were supposed to meet at the ***** outlet on Wedneday 9th June 2010 to resolve this (agreed again by phone on the morning of tuesday the 8th June 2010), however when i reported in for my shift i was promptly sent home again. Should i now presume this shall be true of all my shifts?
I informed ****** that we had a meeting scheduled and he promised to inform me of your arrival so i could come to the shop to see you. However this call never came, and i'd like to put that down to human error and not breach of agreement on your part.
I MUST now officially request that this money (£***) be repaid to me by 17:00 today (Thursday the 10th June 2010).
However this still leaves me with a couple more issues.
Several requests have been made now for a copy of my contract, none of these requests have yet brought a contract to me. I am aware that there's no legal requirement for you to give me a copy, there is however a legal requirement for you to supply me with a 'Written statement of Particulars' within 2 months of employment commencing. This is now nearly 4 months over due.
Again i MUST insist that this be corrected, however i feel that 28 days is a fair time for this oversight to be put into order.
As the company now appears to wish to not pay me for work i've done, doesn't want to abide by laws setup to protect me, the employee should i now consider officially raising the company grievance procedure, or do you have another idea i've perhaps overlooked?
Until i hear otherwise from yourself i can only presume that my services are no longer required at the ***** outlet, and can only be left to decide what course of action i intend to persue.
I shall report to the ***** outlet at 17:00 today (Thursday 10th June 2010) where i hope we can finally resolve these issues.
Finally i'd like to add that it gives me no pleaseure at all to make these requests of you, as i feel we've always had a respectable working relationship, which i'm trying my best to maintain.
Regards,
(signed)
This morning i have been in contact with, ACAS, my solicitor, the police and The C.A.B and the Job Centre.
Firstly, following on from my email on sunday 6th June 2010, and your subsiquent reply by phone, i'd like to ask why the shortfall (of say £***) in my wages has not yet been repaid ?
I was assured by you it would be, and i'm now in a position where it needs to be. We were supposed to meet at the ***** outlet on Wedneday 9th June 2010 to resolve this (agreed again by phone on the morning of tuesday the 8th June 2010), however when i reported in for my shift i was promptly sent home again. Should i now presume this shall be true of all my shifts?
I informed ****** that we had a meeting scheduled and he promised to inform me of your arrival so i could come to the shop to see you. However this call never came, and i'd like to put that down to human error and not breach of agreement on your part.
I MUST now officially request that this money (£***) be repaid to me by 17:00 today (Thursday the 10th June 2010).
However this still leaves me with a couple more issues.
Several requests have been made now for a copy of my contract, none of these requests have yet brought a contract to me. I am aware that there's no legal requirement for you to give me a copy, there is however a legal requirement for you to supply me with a 'Written statement of Particulars' within 2 months of employment commencing. This is now nearly 4 months over due.
Again i MUST insist that this be corrected, however i feel that 28 days is a fair time for this oversight to be put into order.
As the company now appears to wish to not pay me for work i've done, doesn't want to abide by laws setup to protect me, the employee should i now consider officially raising the company grievance procedure, or do you have another idea i've perhaps overlooked?
Until i hear otherwise from yourself i can only presume that my services are no longer required at the ***** outlet, and can only be left to decide what course of action i intend to persue.
I shall report to the ***** outlet at 17:00 today (Thursday 10th June 2010) where i hope we can finally resolve these issues.
Finally i'd like to add that it gives me no pleaseure at all to make these requests of you, as i feel we've always had a respectable working relationship, which i'm trying my best to maintain.
Regards,
(signed)
Last edited by Roscco; 10-06-2010 at 12:46 PM. Reason: Privacy reasons
10-06-2010, 06:28 PM
#16
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Good letter,giving them plenty of chances to realise they made a "mistake", although as written in some other posts I believe it maybe time to consider alternative employment.I have no idea nor do I need to know what type of drug(assuming) you were on but you seem to be trying exceptionally hard to prevent a relapse,unlike 98.267% of people in this country.just a thought but why don't you try working for one of these community style "Im a former addict and look at me now" type of things,probably a nice salary attached too!!!
11-06-2010, 11:09 AM
#17
Chop, good memory, didn't think too many would pick up on that.
Nah, as a registered addict, i was/am entitled to all sorts of stuff (but i'm no scrounger). That aside though, the company know about my past, but don't know at the same time if you know what i mean.
1 day sick in 6 months, 1 late attendance, because of my past i've worked HARD to stay squeeky clean, no pun intended.
The government payment came through 'new deal', basicaly anybodys who's been long term unemployed (which i hadn't) but was an incentive for an employer to take on someone with my history.
I pay for my 'script, the only one (out of about 90) who does in my town.
Nah, as a registered addict, i was/am entitled to all sorts of stuff (but i'm no scrounger). That aside though, the company know about my past, but don't know at the same time if you know what i mean.
1 day sick in 6 months, 1 late attendance, because of my past i've worked HARD to stay squeeky clean, no pun intended.
The government payment came through 'new deal', basicaly anybodys who's been long term unemployed (which i hadn't) but was an incentive for an employer to take on someone with my history.
I pay for my 'script, the only one (out of about 90) who does in my town.
I remember too much mate
Good luck with it anyway
11-06-2010, 01:41 PM
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Well,
First up thanks to all for the advice.
I got a call shortly after my email yesterday requesting i attend a meeting (which i'd asked for) to try and resolve my grievances.
Credit where credit's due i was repaid exactly what i should've been, asked to, and signed a statement basicly saying that although they'd fucked up i agreed there was no mal-intent intended and i'd say no more about the matter.
Regards changing shifts about, various managers were all blamed for not passing on information between each other, ultimately they said i should've been informed, wasn't and they're sorry for that. I accepted that on the grounds they'll pay me for half of the shifts in question.
A contract WILL be in my hand today.
They then handed me a Final written warning (which i've been expecting as i'd only presumed 6 months employment), and that was that.
Alternative employment is a must now as thier gun is loaded and pointed straight at me.
Cheers again to all
First up thanks to all for the advice.
I got a call shortly after my email yesterday requesting i attend a meeting (which i'd asked for) to try and resolve my grievances.
Credit where credit's due i was repaid exactly what i should've been, asked to, and signed a statement basicly saying that although they'd fucked up i agreed there was no mal-intent intended and i'd say no more about the matter.
Regards changing shifts about, various managers were all blamed for not passing on information between each other, ultimately they said i should've been informed, wasn't and they're sorry for that. I accepted that on the grounds they'll pay me for half of the shifts in question.
A contract WILL be in my hand today.
They then handed me a Final written warning (which i've been expecting as i'd only presumed 6 months employment), and that was that.
Alternative employment is a must now as thier gun is loaded and pointed straight at me.
Cheers again to all
12-06-2010, 01:31 AM
#21
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This is where you all start thinking 'yeah right' lol
They claim till has been short on 'numerous occasions' over the past few weeks,
(Bottom line is this, i aint dipped the till, there's a camera above my head to start with which would back up my claim if they'd look at it, which they have and know i'm right, and quite frankly it's not worth the pay off i could take) although they won't provide specific dates or otherwise, and i don't follow company policy or procedure apparently, but no-one is sure which ones.
It's a simple case of they need to fire me to get someone else in so they can get more cash of the gov.
Got givin my contract today, will bet i'm P45'd by the end of the month, dependant on when the 2nd installment of gov cash arrives.
If i am, then God help them, shit storm & tea cup, come to mind.
Debatin' informing them i'm a recovering addict (on a community based recovery program, regularly tested ( and have a 100% clean record)), remember something about they can't sack you for addiction as its an illness. 'Might' come in handy for future ?
Fuck knows, couldn't care atm tbh
They claim till has been short on 'numerous occasions' over the past few weeks,
(Bottom line is this, i aint dipped the till, there's a camera above my head to start with which would back up my claim if they'd look at it, which they have and know i'm right, and quite frankly it's not worth the pay off i could take) although they won't provide specific dates or otherwise, and i don't follow company policy or procedure apparently, but no-one is sure which ones.
It's a simple case of they need to fire me to get someone else in so they can get more cash of the gov.
Got givin my contract today, will bet i'm P45'd by the end of the month, dependant on when the 2nd installment of gov cash arrives.
If i am, then God help them, shit storm & tea cup, come to mind.
Debatin' informing them i'm a recovering addict (on a community based recovery program, regularly tested ( and have a 100% clean record)), remember something about they can't sack you for addiction as its an illness. 'Might' come in handy for future ?
Fuck knows, couldn't care atm tbh
12-06-2010, 01:55 AM
#22
so pretty much as i suspected then!!
Guess this is the "nasty" side of the fall out from the recession.
its pretty fucking scum tactics for them to basically destroy your job, ruin your CV and seriously reduce your short term chance of getting a new job all because of greed!!!
I do hope some of these managers get their comeuppance eventually!!
Sadly i feel theres not going to be any recovery in the next few years but the UK will settle in a new lower "normal" for our economy as we slowly reduce debt and rebuild new industry again. So chances are scum tactics by employers will continue as the "norm" for some time yet!!
Guess this is the "nasty" side of the fall out from the recession.
its pretty fucking scum tactics for them to basically destroy your job, ruin your CV and seriously reduce your short term chance of getting a new job all because of greed!!!
I do hope some of these managers get their comeuppance eventually!!
Sadly i feel theres not going to be any recovery in the next few years but the UK will settle in a new lower "normal" for our economy as we slowly reduce debt and rebuild new industry again. So chances are scum tactics by employers will continue as the "norm" for some time yet!!
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