Any plasterers in the house?
17-02-2010, 04:41 PM
#42
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i dont gaurentee it will stick if i over skim artex, dont get me wrong done loads that have been fine but so much better job if you tack over with board then skim
17-02-2010, 06:17 PM
#43
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tbh without looking at the job its hard to know i skim over artex but never garantee it as the house is a 19cent building id would expect it to to have been re boarded by now lol but if its still a larved ceiling and it was artexed around the 60s i would say its a safe bet that its got lime wash or destemper under the artex (the artex also may contain asbestos)
scraping a larved ceiling is abit of a no no in my book as the scraping you should give it would 99% break the plaster between the larves and in time it will sag/crack
if you dont want the mess of taking it down and are keen on a good but cheap just board it and get someone to skim it
if your really keen board it yourself just find the joists and use 9.5mm ceiling boards you can now get them as a half board so there nice and light and its low so deffo a diyable
skim it would work out from me about Ł7 p sqr mtr thats including materials reskim is about Ł10 p mtr (dependant on the job and area) just to give you an idea what to pay
feel free to pm me on advise if you diy board it i can explain in detail how to go about it
Ben
scraping a larved ceiling is abit of a no no in my book as the scraping you should give it would 99% break the plaster between the larves and in time it will sag/crack
if you dont want the mess of taking it down and are keen on a good but cheap just board it and get someone to skim it
if your really keen board it yourself just find the joists and use 9.5mm ceiling boards you can now get them as a half board so there nice and light and its low so deffo a diyable
skim it would work out from me about Ł7 p sqr mtr thats including materials reskim is about Ł10 p mtr (dependant on the job and area) just to give you an idea what to pay
feel free to pm me on advise if you diy board it i can explain in detail how to go about it
Ben
Last edited by ben_frst; 17-02-2010 at 06:20 PM.
17-02-2010, 06:31 PM
#44
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Welcome back Dave you caaaant...
Erm...
I had the artex plastered in the front bedroom of my house and it fell down after a few days.
Before the guys re did it I mixed a thicker solution of pva and left it to completely go off - ie the day before - before it was re done and its stayed up this time.
I'm taking no chances down stairs and over boarding the ceiling to plaster on top of that.
Erm...
I had the artex plastered in the front bedroom of my house and it fell down after a few days.
Before the guys re did it I mixed a thicker solution of pva and left it to completely go off - ie the day before - before it was re done and its stayed up this time.
I'm taking no chances down stairs and over boarding the ceiling to plaster on top of that.
17-02-2010, 06:31 PM
#45
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im a plasterer mate and id overboard then skim it . you might get away with skimin over the artex but then you might not. best do it right 1st time. have you got any pics.
17-02-2010, 07:42 PM
#46
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ive had loads of plaster work done over the years and ive never had a single prob with skimming over artex, all the various guys did was just scrape the high points off first and apply pva.
17-02-2010, 09:09 PM
#49
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17-02-2010, 09:14 PM
#50
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Thats a job done badly! Never come across that !Dave, come on, pic war needed, its been a while, see if you can get banned before the nights up
Last edited by Lee Reynolds; 17-02-2010 at 09:16 PM.
17-02-2010, 09:15 PM
#51
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you need to check the ceilings.. if a very old house like you say.. it will most definitely. be slat ceiling.. likely hood of it being old horse hair and lime.behind the artex.
if the ceiling is strong still... pva night before, and once before you start skimming allow to go sticky before you put multi finish on and always use thistle.
dont get monkeys to do it,, ask if they can do all types of plastering.. ie. sand and cement .finish. screeding.. a good spread will be able to do it all..
i would expect to pay Ł300 inc materials
if the ceiling is strong still... pva night before, and once before you start skimming allow to go sticky before you put multi finish on and always use thistle.
dont get monkeys to do it,, ask if they can do all types of plastering.. ie. sand and cement .finish. screeding.. a good spread will be able to do it all..
i would expect to pay Ł300 inc materials
17-02-2010, 09:29 PM
#52
............
my house WAS full of skimmed artex ceilings, all bonded and skimmed, all of which was coming away, spoke to several plasterers and none of them would guarantee a skim on artex, two of them in the trade for over 40 years. It may be fine on newer stuff but my older ceilings wouldn't take the weight of the skim........ I wouldn't ever skim artex personally altho as said I've seen good and bad results.
17-02-2010, 09:31 PM
#53
maybe we have different plaster up here? cause i was thinking the same
17-02-2010, 09:41 PM
#54
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my house WAS full of skimmed artex ceilings, all bonded and skimmed, all of which was coming away, spoke to several plasterers and none of them would guarantee a skim on artex, two of them in the trade for over 40 years. It may be fine on newer stuff but my older ceilings wouldn't take the weight of the skim........ I wouldn't ever skim artex personally altho as said I've seen good and bad results.
17-02-2010, 09:42 PM
#55
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17-02-2010, 09:48 PM
#56
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Judging by how good he is at building workshops you should get Chip and his lacky Shadrag to do it. He always seems keen to fill his week nights and meet new men off here by going to help them for nothing too.
17-02-2010, 09:52 PM
#57
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Incidently...
Mine was Lathe and Plaster ceilings and there was a possibility the plaster was on its last legs as close to its sell by date- hence maybe why it fell off.
Worth noting my guys used a spade to take the high points in the artex off and didn't fuck about doing it lol
Mine was Lathe and Plaster ceilings and there was a possibility the plaster was on its last legs as close to its sell by date- hence maybe why it fell off.
Worth noting my guys used a spade to take the high points in the artex off and didn't fuck about doing it lol
17-02-2010, 09:54 PM
#58
............
it was artexed in the 60's and It was that lime and hair stuff underneath
I'm not here for a row, just speaking from experince and the plasterers I spoke to, and I spoke to a lot lol. It seems as though i'm not the only one judging from other replies, so you've heard of more than one case now.
Like I said, newer stuff 'probably' wouldnt give any problems.
I'm not here for a row, just speaking from experince and the plasterers I spoke to, and I spoke to a lot lol. It seems as though i'm not the only one judging from other replies, so you've heard of more than one case now.
Like I said, newer stuff 'probably' wouldnt give any problems.
17-02-2010, 09:56 PM
#59
............
Fuck off you clitoris........unless you have anything worthwhile to add 
Its not just me if you read the thread, theres both other customers and plasterers who say they wouldnt guarantee a skim over artex.
Its not just me if you read the thread, theres both other customers and plasterers who say they wouldnt guarantee a skim over artex.
17-02-2010, 10:24 PM
#60
I've found that life I needed.. It's HERE!!
just setting the record straight you CAN skim over artex i did 2 just last friday about 25sqr mtrs of stipple an a boarded ceilng with vinyl silk paint on it i just gave it a good scrape one coat of pva and skimned it but that was in a mid-late 70s house not a 200year old building
i have skimmed a known destempered+artex celing and it stayed up i gave it all a 5-1 pva the day before then a thick 2-1 on the same day and it stayed up and the guys still in the house and ive been back a year or so on and it was still fine
its all down to judgement find a good plasterer and they make the judgement for you i would have a look but i dont really travel for work as my local clients keep me busy enough these days lol
out of interest what size are the ceilings? it would be nice to know what it cost you and how you get on for my pricing lol i always ask ppl who have had other plasterers in just to keep my prices inline
Ben
i have skimmed a known destempered+artex celing and it stayed up i gave it all a 5-1 pva the day before then a thick 2-1 on the same day and it stayed up and the guys still in the house and ive been back a year or so on and it was still fine
its all down to judgement find a good plasterer and they make the judgement for you i would have a look but i dont really travel for work as my local clients keep me busy enough these days lol
out of interest what size are the ceilings? it would be nice to know what it cost you and how you get on for my pricing lol i always ask ppl who have had other plasterers in just to keep my prices inline
Ben
17-02-2010, 10:29 PM
#61
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it was artexed in the 60's and It was that lime and hair stuff underneath
I'm not here for a row, just speaking from experince and the plasterers I spoke to, and I spoke to a lot lol. It seems as though i'm not the only one judging from other replies, so you've heard of more than one case now.
Like I said, newer stuff 'probably' wouldnt give any problems.
I'm not here for a row, just speaking from experince and the plasterers I spoke to, and I spoke to a lot lol. It seems as though i'm not the only one judging from other replies, so you've heard of more than one case now.
Like I said, newer stuff 'probably' wouldnt give any problems.
LOL! Im not saying its never happened, ive just never come accross it! Our plaster scrapes it, scratches it, then bonds it.
17-02-2010, 10:31 PM
#62
Professional Waffler
just setting the record straight you CAN skim over artex i did 2 just last friday about 25sqr mtrs of stipple an a boarded ceilng with vinyl silk paint on it i just gave it a good scrape one coat of pva and skimned it but that was in a mid-late 70s house not a 200year old building
17-02-2010, 10:45 PM
#63
I've found that life I needed.. It's HERE!!
so a row breaks out the site agent sides with the chippy to continue so Mo then gets the site agent to sign the paperwork stating that he is no longer resposible for the ceiling and the site agent laughs it off a few months after opening an old biddy is eating har dinner in ther when wham she get lumped with a big sheet of lime mortor
he was so glad when he read it in the paper i thought he would have framed it lol
17-02-2010, 10:57 PM
#64
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it bonds to the artex its just if the artex has destemper cirefite or lime wash beneith it the mosture travels though the artex even when pva'd as the moisture is sat there for 2 hours + and breaks whatevers behind it down the problem with these old lime based finishes is they had no setting agent in the like gypsum based product now so at any time you can break it back down with water and retrowl it lol
portsmouth has one of the best plastering colleges in the country and when you train there as i did you use all lime base mortors for rendering and screeding so when your done it can be recycled by putting it back through a big drum forced action mixer and reused
Last edited by ben_frst; 17-02-2010 at 10:59 PM.
17-02-2010, 11:03 PM
#65
I've found that life I needed.. It's HERE!!
you dont even know its happering until you give it its 1st trowel and you get little blisters it the plaster i have had this happen on one or two jobs in the last 7 years but nothing to serious just cut the blisters out and applied some more plaster
17-02-2010, 11:22 PM
#66
I've found that life I needed.. It's HERE!!
theres so many mixed views but ive plastered over tiles which in the white book (british gypsum plastering code of conducts) says you can but just by applying a cleaner and a neat coat of pva to provide the key (no suction to kill off) and some guys wont touch it
theres alot of hear say in this trade but i passed the course and thats a full time nvq 2 years covering all plastering,rendering ,screeding, mouldings, tileing(originally a plasterers trade) and have always stuck by the book and keep up to date on new products and methods
i now also projection plaster (spray on with a machine) with one company i work with
and also use special finishes such as k rend sto ect yet im still awaiting my sto certification but theres still so much out there so many foreign products the as soon as i get asked about a new product i reserch it i actually have a contact who runs all the courses on the products he sells
theres alot of hear say in this trade but i passed the course and thats a full time nvq 2 years covering all plastering,rendering ,screeding, mouldings, tileing(originally a plasterers trade) and have always stuck by the book and keep up to date on new products and methods
i now also projection plaster (spray on with a machine) with one company i work with
and also use special finishes such as k rend sto ect yet im still awaiting my sto certification but theres still so much out there so many foreign products the as soon as i get asked about a new product i reserch it i actually have a contact who runs all the courses on the products he sells
17-02-2010, 11:32 PM
#67
I've found that life I needed.. It's HERE!!
http://www.diy-extra.co.uk/distemper.html i thought id just post this up as you seem genuinly interested this goes to show that distemper is know to be a paing they tlk about it making wall paper come back off now just imagine that but under artex on a 10sqr mtr ceiling with a wet 50kgs plaster pulling down on it
oh Dave you can also get an artex remover but i dont know how good it is i havnt tried it yet you could always try that then use an oil based sealer on the ceilings and skim
ive use oil based sealers in the past with great resaults
oh Dave you can also get an artex remover but i dont know how good it is i havnt tried it yet you could always try that then use an oil based sealer on the ceilings and skim
ive use oil based sealers in the past with great resaults
18-02-2010, 08:25 AM
#69
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Ben, thanks mate. Appreciate the help / advice. Fancy a trip to kent for a couple of days work!!? will put you up for the night! sounds like you know your stuff!
Here are a few pictures of the main bedroom so you have some idea of what im working with here. I forgot to get the measurements of the room.. ill do that tonight.
Remember, its an 1880's cottage and I have stripped the room back as much as I dare
Here is the ceiling. This is the kind of artex I want skimmed over. Its like this in the main bedroom. The hallway and the 2nd bedroom are the same. I also have a 3rd bedroom on a 3rd floor.. that also could do with the same treatment.
Here are a few pictures of the main bedroom so you have some idea of what im working with here. I forgot to get the measurements of the room.. ill do that tonight.
Remember, its an 1880's cottage and I have stripped the room back as much as I dare
Here is the ceiling. This is the kind of artex I want skimmed over. Its like this in the main bedroom. The hallway and the 2nd bedroom are the same. I also have a 3rd bedroom on a 3rd floor.. that also could do with the same treatment.
18-02-2010, 08:43 AM
#70
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Also, Ben.. or even Mr Lee Reynolds.. (glad you are on this thread!)
In the same room as the ceiling I am talking about... The wall that divides the bedroom to the rest of the upstairs, I removed a lot of shit wallpaper from it. This also took away bits of plaster on the wall. The wall has always felt a bit spongy when pushed on. So I removed all the brittle / loose plaster on a few sections and revealed this as the structure of the wall.
Im assuming these bits of wood are the laths.
What is the general procedure in a case like this?
1) Pull all the plaster of the wall, leaving just the laths remaining and replaster?
2) Just remove sections of loose plaster and patch up?
3) easier to remove all the laths / plaster and put up plasterboard?? will this detract the character value from the house?
4) would the ceiling be made using the same process? laths?
Pics here
In the same room as the ceiling I am talking about... The wall that divides the bedroom to the rest of the upstairs, I removed a lot of shit wallpaper from it. This also took away bits of plaster on the wall. The wall has always felt a bit spongy when pushed on. So I removed all the brittle / loose plaster on a few sections and revealed this as the structure of the wall.
Im assuming these bits of wood are the laths.
What is the general procedure in a case like this?
1) Pull all the plaster of the wall, leaving just the laths remaining and replaster?
2) Just remove sections of loose plaster and patch up?
3) easier to remove all the laths / plaster and put up plasterboard?? will this detract the character value from the house?
4) would the ceiling be made using the same process? laths?
Pics here
18-02-2010, 11:32 AM
#71
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This is the room in question. Want to get it all done asap as we are having all new furniture made and is due to be delivered soon (www.eatsleeplive.co.uk)
18-02-2010, 05:29 PM
#74
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Dave,
What the boarding and skimming?
sorry mean't to take the camera loads of times just never got round to it, they just seemed to cut long plaster board lengths and screw the to them in, then a good skim.
they had to rip it down in the front room though, all the work to 3 months, we were living at the mother-in-laws never again.
What the boarding and skimming?
sorry mean't to take the camera loads of times just never got round to it, they just seemed to cut long plaster board lengths and screw the to them in, then a good skim.
they had to rip it down in the front room though, all the work to 3 months, we were living at the mother-in-laws never again.
18-02-2010, 09:21 PM
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Dave
tbh im not interested in skimming over the ceiling and wouldnt really wanna put my name to it as you can see how brittle the plaster it on the walls the ceilings are the done using the same method just scraping that artex raises a load of issues with the asbestos which on confident it with contain and and the damage to the sand/lime tbh over boarding is the only way (bar removing) i would plaster any of it and im sure a few guys will say the same
as for the walls i would knock the plaster off and pull all the larves off and board that to just by looking at the pics i can see the lime /sand and lime base finish heres a quick test you can do lick your finger and rub the white finish and then look at you finger it will be white where the finish has broken down when you pva it the cirifite/distemper will absorb the water in the pva and will form a skin which will just peel
i would still strongly advise you to board the ceilng looking at the pics i can see that ceiling is far from straight so more than likley its blown in a few places with the buildings movement
if you think about how much ball ache it will save you in the end reskimming it would be a risk and if it paid of then great but they if it doesnt then you'll be pulling the lot off (whats left) and paying out all over again it could be a week or it could be 5 years but if you tack its perminant its your basicly using the board to clamp the sand and lime back up behind it
im always happy to advise especially another passionford member if you want to have ago on your own let me know and i'll get you on the right track
tbh im not interested in skimming over the ceiling and wouldnt really wanna put my name to it as you can see how brittle the plaster it on the walls the ceilings are the done using the same method just scraping that artex raises a load of issues with the asbestos which on confident it with contain and and the damage to the sand/lime tbh over boarding is the only way (bar removing) i would plaster any of it and im sure a few guys will say the same
as for the walls i would knock the plaster off and pull all the larves off and board that to just by looking at the pics i can see the lime /sand and lime base finish heres a quick test you can do lick your finger and rub the white finish and then look at you finger it will be white where the finish has broken down when you pva it the cirifite/distemper will absorb the water in the pva and will form a skin which will just peel
i would still strongly advise you to board the ceilng looking at the pics i can see that ceiling is far from straight so more than likley its blown in a few places with the buildings movement
if you think about how much ball ache it will save you in the end reskimming it would be a risk and if it paid of then great but they if it doesnt then you'll be pulling the lot off (whats left) and paying out all over again it could be a week or it could be 5 years but if you tack its perminant its your basicly using the board to clamp the sand and lime back up behind it
im always happy to advise especially another passionford member if you want to have ago on your own let me know and i'll get you on the right track