Help! Landlady kept 'Johns' deposit. PF HELP please!
07-12-2009, 08:44 PM
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Help! Landlady kept 'Johns' deposit. PF HELP please!
Looking for some opinons (for a friend, lets call him John) on what the PF crew would do in this situation. Quite a varied bunch on here I have noticed so should see some interesting replies.
Here goes. I will try and keep it brief.
John had to move into a place at short notice to a new city for work reasons. He got in touch with his folks to tell them the news and it turned out that they had met a very nice lady when staying at a B+B who happened to rent out rooms. Johns parents said they were very nice and she was used to doing short term rents etc (oil types, monday to friday types etc).
John called this woman from a few hundred miles away up and had a disucssion, everything seemed in order and he was set to move in unless there were any severe objections from either party. He turned up a week or so later with all his stuff. Gave the hag a cheque for £800 quid, £400 deposit and £400 up front for rent.
This paragraphy is quite irrelevant but since this is a mini story it will add some substance. John stays there for about 5months. Being new to the area, it was not immediately obvious that it is a shithole and full of chavs and people who don't work. The building has lots and lots of cats and the flat is cluttered with things (even though generally tidy). The live in landlord lady is 30-40years his senior and things she is Britney Spears (always getting wasted in the house, partying etc etc). She has an annoying cat which proceeded to ruin some of Johns clothes, a suitcase and a golfbag. John tried his best to keep the cat out of the room, but the lady uses the room during the day for her clothes (massive wardrobe, to turn the heatings on/off and to close the window etc). Things got progressively worse for this poor chap and during the 3/4month he found a couple of other places to move out and in to somewhere nicer and more long term.
John, being a decent guy, was initially quite nervous about telling her he was moving out (might screw her up financially / advertising costs) he tells her and she dosen't seem very happy at all. 2 weeks before moving out she come quite agressive demanding the exact time of him leaving etc and he tells her. On the weekend he was about to move out, she left him a note which went something like "Hi John, I wish you all the best in your new place. I wont be around all weekend, but please just put the keys through the door when you leave tomrrow (sat)"
Immediate John calls her and asks when he is getting his deposit back. She told him it is spent and there is no way she can raise that amount of money. She moans on for about 20mins saying its the run up to christmas etc. He obviously tells her it isn't her money to spend and how does she feel being a theif etc etc. Anyway, it concluded that he isn't getting the deposit back.
John being extremely pissed off, packs all his things into that car within 2hrs of the conversation finishing on a friday evening and moves into the new place a day early and heads to the new local for an hour and got smashed! Obviously he forgot to put the keys through the letterbox.
He has since asked for my advice and I have suggested he has some legal and some not so legal options:
As you may of guessed, this was me.
Here goes. I will try and keep it brief.
John had to move into a place at short notice to a new city for work reasons. He got in touch with his folks to tell them the news and it turned out that they had met a very nice lady when staying at a B+B who happened to rent out rooms. Johns parents said they were very nice and she was used to doing short term rents etc (oil types, monday to friday types etc).
John called this woman from a few hundred miles away up and had a disucssion, everything seemed in order and he was set to move in unless there were any severe objections from either party. He turned up a week or so later with all his stuff. Gave the hag a cheque for £800 quid, £400 deposit and £400 up front for rent.
This paragraphy is quite irrelevant but since this is a mini story it will add some substance. John stays there for about 5months. Being new to the area, it was not immediately obvious that it is a shithole and full of chavs and people who don't work. The building has lots and lots of cats and the flat is cluttered with things (even though generally tidy). The live in landlord lady is 30-40years his senior and things she is Britney Spears (always getting wasted in the house, partying etc etc). She has an annoying cat which proceeded to ruin some of Johns clothes, a suitcase and a golfbag. John tried his best to keep the cat out of the room, but the lady uses the room during the day for her clothes (massive wardrobe, to turn the heatings on/off and to close the window etc). Things got progressively worse for this poor chap and during the 3/4month he found a couple of other places to move out and in to somewhere nicer and more long term.
John, being a decent guy, was initially quite nervous about telling her he was moving out (might screw her up financially / advertising costs) he tells her and she dosen't seem very happy at all. 2 weeks before moving out she come quite agressive demanding the exact time of him leaving etc and he tells her. On the weekend he was about to move out, she left him a note which went something like "Hi John, I wish you all the best in your new place. I wont be around all weekend, but please just put the keys through the door when you leave tomrrow (sat)"
Immediate John calls her and asks when he is getting his deposit back. She told him it is spent and there is no way she can raise that amount of money. She moans on for about 20mins saying its the run up to christmas etc. He obviously tells her it isn't her money to spend and how does she feel being a theif etc etc. Anyway, it concluded that he isn't getting the deposit back.
John being extremely pissed off, packs all his things into that car within 2hrs of the conversation finishing on a friday evening and moves into the new place a day early and heads to the new local for an hour and got smashed! Obviously he forgot to put the keys through the letterbox.
He has since asked for my advice and I have suggested he has some legal and some not so legal options:
- Get the keys cut and hand them back, let it all boil over. Explain to her that you understand and realise some people can get into financial difficulty etc. When it is all boiled over, go back 4-6months later and take goods to the value of the deposit.
- Make a claim through the small claims court. This may have slim chance of success due to no contract being in place. However, all payments were by cheque so there is proof of the money going out. In addition, he still has letters that went to that address. Verbal contract perhaps?
- Become violent.
- Ignore it and get on with his life. Learn from the 'mistake'.
- Others?
As you may of guessed, this was me.
07-12-2009, 08:54 PM
#4
his money was his bond so that if the place was trashed the owner would have some funds to sort it.
Personally I would have given her something to sort and left. That or left the place open, dropped the keys on the side and told any group of cold looking chavs that there was an open empty flat for them to doss in for a few days.
Personally I would have given her something to sort and left. That or left the place open, dropped the keys on the side and told any group of cold looking chavs that there was an open empty flat for them to doss in for a few days.
07-12-2009, 09:13 PM
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his money was his bond so that if the place was trashed the owner would have some funds to sort it.
Personally I would have given her something to sort and left. That or left the place open, dropped the keys on the side and told any group of cold looking chavs that there was an open empty flat for them to doss in for a few days.
Personally I would have given her something to sort and left. That or left the place open, dropped the keys on the side and told any group of cold looking chavs that there was an open empty flat for them to doss in for a few days.
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07-12-2009, 09:21 PM
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07-12-2009, 09:33 PM
#11
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if you had given the required notice , the deposit should have been returned.
i would have removed goods to the value of £400, a trip to the local pawn shop, get the cash, and post the receipt and the keys back through the door
i would have removed goods to the value of £400, a trip to the local pawn shop, get the cash, and post the receipt and the keys back through the door
07-12-2009, 09:47 PM
#13
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07-12-2009, 09:48 PM
#14
Personally mate I can't see going to court worth while - no doubt she will claim you have not left the property in the same state as when you took possession of the keys and kept the bond in order to correct.
Only needs to say you knacked the carpets or something.
Normally you would have the person meet you at the property to inspect the place, if they are happy they give you the bond back and you give the keys over.
She sounds like she is no stranger to it and it's tucking you up.
My suggestions earlier are for if you decide you wont get your cash, so make ssure she has to spend it on the place rarther than handbags.
Only needs to say you knacked the carpets or something.
Normally you would have the person meet you at the property to inspect the place, if they are happy they give you the bond back and you give the keys over.
She sounds like she is no stranger to it and it's tucking you up.
My suggestions earlier are for if you decide you wont get your cash, so make ssure she has to spend it on the place rarther than handbags.
07-12-2009, 09:52 PM
#16
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In the words of the world's best philosopher:
"A verbal contract isn't worth the paper it's written on"
Copyright G. Marx
I'd say you are on plums, but anyone renting accommodation has to be registered with the Council. I don't know if it applies to someone renting a room/s in their own home, but it's worth checking, and I'm sure they will have some more constructive advice than offering the longest 12-bore in history! (Still, at least now we know what happens to all the bits that get sawn off!!)
If her other tenants are from the University, colleges etc, you could let the student accommodation officers know the type of person she is - they won't want to put potentially vulnerable students in a place like this with a landlady like that. Perhaps mentioning this to her and drying up a source of her future revenue may help her find your cash. Then tell them anyway, because the students have enough to worry about without a pain like her!
If all else fails, maybe your folks can have a word? It's really shitty to feel that you have to run to your parents, but they recommended her and she may take their calls.
"A verbal contract isn't worth the paper it's written on"
Copyright G. Marx
I'd say you are on plums, but anyone renting accommodation has to be registered with the Council. I don't know if it applies to someone renting a room/s in their own home, but it's worth checking, and I'm sure they will have some more constructive advice than offering the longest 12-bore in history! (Still, at least now we know what happens to all the bits that get sawn off!!)
If her other tenants are from the University, colleges etc, you could let the student accommodation officers know the type of person she is - they won't want to put potentially vulnerable students in a place like this with a landlady like that. Perhaps mentioning this to her and drying up a source of her future revenue may help her find your cash. Then tell them anyway, because the students have enough to worry about without a pain like her!
If all else fails, maybe your folks can have a word? It's really shitty to feel that you have to run to your parents, but they recommended her and she may take their calls.
Last edited by Iain Mac; 07-12-2009 at 09:56 PM.
07-12-2009, 09:53 PM
#17
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Aye I meant John...
Matt, I have heard that these days they have upto a month to pay you back under offical leases these days. I dunno. Either way, I figure I am screwed'od!( i mean john ) The small claims court would cost next to bugger all and if she choose to ignore the letter she would loose automatically. If she turned up she would probably say i trashed the place and so was not entitled to any money....
Matt, I have heard that these days they have upto a month to pay you back under offical leases these days. I dunno. Either way, I figure I am screwed'od!( i mean john ) The small claims court would cost next to bugger all and if she choose to ignore the letter she would loose automatically. If she turned up she would probably say i trashed the place and so was not entitled to any money....
07-12-2009, 09:58 PM
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In the words of the world's best philosopher:
"A verbal contract isn't worth the paper it's written on"
Copyright G. Marx
I'd say you are on plums, but anyone renting accommodation has to be registered with the Council. I don't know if it applies to someone renting a room/s in their own home, but it's worth checking, and I'm sure they will have some more constructive advice than offering the longest 12-bore in history! (Still, at least now we know what happens to all the bits that get sawn off!!)
If her other tenants are from the University, colleges etc, you could let the student accommodation officers know the type of person she is - they won't want to put potentially vulnerable students in a place like this with a landlady like that. Perhaps mentioning this to her and drying up a source of her future revenue may help her find your cash. Then tell them anyway, because the students have enough to worry about without a pain like her!
If all else fails, maybe your folks can have a word? It's rally shitty to feel that you have to run to your parents, but they recommended her and she may take their calls.
"A verbal contract isn't worth the paper it's written on"
Copyright G. Marx
I'd say you are on plums, but anyone renting accommodation has to be registered with the Council. I don't know if it applies to someone renting a room/s in their own home, but it's worth checking, and I'm sure they will have some more constructive advice than offering the longest 12-bore in history! (Still, at least now we know what happens to all the bits that get sawn off!!)
If her other tenants are from the University, colleges etc, you could let the student accommodation officers know the type of person she is - they won't want to put potentially vulnerable students in a place like this with a landlady like that. Perhaps mentioning this to her and drying up a source of her future revenue may help her find your cash. Then tell them anyway, because the students have enough to worry about without a pain like her!
If all else fails, maybe your folks can have a word? It's rally shitty to feel that you have to run to your parents, but they recommended her and she may take their calls.
She had the cheek to tell me to check her bank statements if I didn't believe she had money. Also the day after I moved out she text me saying she didn't have enough money to pay her mortage etc! Like I care, I just want the money I paid her as a 'DEPOSIT'.
I know some landlords that are reasonable these days and if a tennant moves out within the agreement months they allow it and charge the tennants 'reasonabe costs' of finding another tennant.
08-12-2009, 09:50 AM
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I believe that legally any deposit given on a rental property has to be held by an independent 3rd party to stop this kind of thing happening.
i reckon your mate John has somewhere between little and no chance of seeing that money again!
i reckon your mate John has somewhere between little and no chance of seeing that money again!
08-12-2009, 10:07 AM
#23
Tell "John" to take it out on her fanjita..........
Unfortunately the sensible thing to do is walk away, this woman knows who you are and knows your folks so you can't exactly hide if you decide to go taking stuff from her house. Obviously she has to prove it was you, but then again you have to prove she was owe you, and with no contract, i don'tt think thats gonna happen.
Unfortunately the sensible thing to do is walk away, this woman knows who you are and knows your folks so you can't exactly hide if you decide to go taking stuff from her house. Obviously she has to prove it was you, but then again you have to prove she was owe you, and with no contract, i don'tt think thats gonna happen.
08-12-2009, 10:10 AM
#24
don't post the keys back
go there with a bit of paper that explains what has happened
get her to sign for it with a witness or 3 to say that you have given her the keys back and she has not given you your deposit back as "she doesn't have suffcient funds at this time"
so now you've got her admiting to not having the money to return to your mate PLUS she's also admitted to having yuor mate return the keys, with witnesses and stuff
it may not be legally binding, but if things go missing it can't be you, which is what's going to happen when you "post them back through the letter box"
this way you are being responsible and honest and forward thinking rather than being silly and gulable
if the courts do get invovled, she'll have a black mark against her name and, if it's not a legit place to rent out, she might have more than she's bargained for when the council/ploice/etc come knocking on her door asking to see permits, taxable earnings recipts, fire certificates, etc
go there with a bit of paper that explains what has happened
get her to sign for it with a witness or 3 to say that you have given her the keys back and she has not given you your deposit back as "she doesn't have suffcient funds at this time"
so now you've got her admiting to not having the money to return to your mate PLUS she's also admitted to having yuor mate return the keys, with witnesses and stuff
it may not be legally binding, but if things go missing it can't be you, which is what's going to happen when you "post them back through the letter box"
this way you are being responsible and honest and forward thinking rather than being silly and gulable
if the courts do get invovled, she'll have a black mark against her name and, if it's not a legit place to rent out, she might have more than she's bargained for when the council/ploice/etc come knocking on her door asking to see permits, taxable earnings recipts, fire certificates, etc
08-12-2009, 10:23 AM
#26
Keeping a copy of the keys and going back at a later date would be classed as burglary.
You really want to avoid that IMHO unless a criminal record isnt a problem in whatever line of work you do.
Small claims is only legit way you will get anyway realistically.
You really want to avoid that IMHO unless a criminal record isnt a problem in whatever line of work you do.
Small claims is only legit way you will get anyway realistically.
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