Maria.

Hit the nail on the head, the amount of scenes my dad gets called out to, where people are pissed as farts and think they can fight the world is unbelievable.

The problem here is, we didnt see how it was handled before he was tazered. For all we know the coppers will probably have been stood there for 15 minutes trying to talk to him and diffuse the situation. They dont use unreasonable force, they do what they are paid to do!

Also agree, Tazers are normally a last resort, and the fact this guy barely responded to it, goes to show he was probably a little more intoxicated than just with alcohol.

Psycho Warren

iTrader: (5)

I think a big thing this thread has highlighted is that some people here seem to defend peoples apparent right to act like a knob head when drunk and kick off/give lip to the police.

Wether you like the police or not, wether you are sober or not, you are still required by law to comply with the instructions of a police officer carrying out his duties, especially so if hes arresting you.

like it or lump it

why do people think "resisting arrest" exists as a seperate offence???

Im sure the "police haters" will say it exists to get back at all those innocent people standing up for themselves against the police

skeg

So you're in the police, what a PC? Let me ask you a question then, how come in Traffic cops and all the other endless UK cop shows when there are situations like this be it sometimes more resist, sometimes less that the 4 coppers do the rugby tackle with knee in a back thing and thats about it? Sometimes one of them even has time to go to the van to get the leg straps and they CARRY them to the van.

Yet on these videos which I'm assuming is CCTV and member of the publics camera phone where they have less awareness you see faces get rubbed and smacked against the road? I don't recall one time seeing a copper on these shows rubbing a face into hard, rough tarmac.

Just wondering if it doesn't get shown or they are on better behaviour knowing it would cause reaction, I'm 'guessing' the latter.

saphlover

+1 Totally Agree.

andycos

I can see where the cops went wrong !

They should have plugged the taser into the mains,sprayed him in pepper spray and turned him into a kebab.

Sorted

skeg

Exactly we didn't see it so its unfair to suggest one way or the other. He could have thrown a brick at them for all we know but on the other hand the police could be in the wrong. Best to judge/debate just what we saw.



Me personally I already agreed with you that if they laid there or wasn't even out in the first place it wouldn't have happened. No one is saying people are right to get drunk and mouth off at police just that once cuffed or under control too much force or wrong force is unnecessary.

Psycho Warren

iTrader: (5)

the flaw with that is he wasnt "under control" despite being cuffed. you can still kick people, twist body and shoulder people, head butt them etc all while handcuffed. Makes it hard to carry out a search of the offenders pockets!!!

It's Czech Mate

The guy in the second video wasnt in control, he was still struggling for all he was worth, and untill he lies still they arent supposed to let them to their feet cuffed or not.

Argue with a copper and it's game over. They have to make split decisions, we however can argue about those decisions AFTERWARDS through the Police Complaints Commission if we feel the need.

I'd be ashamed to wake up from a drunken night and be shown that video of me

Personal Pride again tho isnt it.

skeg

Sure you can but you'd find it very hard whilst its being 'cheese gratered' on tarmac. The fact that the copper had time and thought to do this shows that particular situation was under control enough. He did it because he had advantage and his head was there, not to gain advantage.He wasn't ready to sit down at the dinner table with them no but he was under more than enough control IMO. On the floor in cuffs is almost job done surely?


Me too, he was out of order but that's not the issue. You'd expect to be thrown around a bit and have arms etc bent back but not over the top stuff like that. If I saw police rubbing someone's head in the ground just for being drunk and mouthing off once on the floor then I'd be disgusted to be honest. Use the force that's need not dirty tactics.

sambo170588

A.C.A.B

JayCC

deserved everything he got.
if he'd done fuck all wrong he wouldn't be in that position.
there is no reason the coppers should wait for him to comply.
get him off the street sooner so they could get on with their job.

anyone who thinks that is excessive is blinkered.

Psycho Warren

iTrader: (5)

the guy had multiple opportunities to stop fighting. he chose to continue fighting. his own actions brought about his own demise!!

He should count himself lucky hes not in other european countrys or somewhere nastier where he would have got a baton or rifle butt to the back of the head to knock him out!!!

jamieRST

the biggest gang of thugs in the world are the police.the guy may have been taking the piss a bit but 4 on 1s a bit strong,and the guy with the tazer is clearly loving what hes doing to the guy,doesnt look like the guys struggling too much on the floor so dont think he really deserved to be smacked like that.
how is it justifiable that if he came up getting gobby to them that they can do that to him,me an my mates have had police come up to us and be gobby twats for no reason,doesnt mean we were gonna turn around an kick the shit out of em.theyd probably had a shit night/week and thought this guys takin the piss,and lost control,easily done but doesnt mean its right....

AlexF

I dont think we often agree but your 100% spot on there!!!!

fiend

iTrader: (1)

So many idiots on this forum.

DaveZS

A copper is going to do as much as he or she can to prevent injury to themselves, other officers, and innocent members of the public. If that means 4 coppers jumping onto some drunk gobby twat who is resisting arrest, then so be it.

For the people defending the bloke

Maria.

Meaning?

89xr2

Well, that badge does say "i'm Special"

Psycho Warren

iTrader: (5)

says the man whos avatar shows him wearing an S6 respirator, hoodie and while holding an AK47

danneth

while i agree with using the correct force i really dont think punching the guy in the head while hes been held down is the right way to go about it, obviously a copper who likes to feel big tough and hard like most of them

skeg

So you keep saying and you're correct but doesn't mean those actions used on them are right! In USA he might have got shot or hit with a gun and it still would have been his own demise, is that right too then? These police are given tazers and spray so they don't have to rub heads on the ground. In the first video the copper actually tells them to get off him so he can tazer again.



We aren't in USA, Nigeria, Rome or anywhere else its UK mate. Other countries are different rules and lifestyles.

jamieRST

its a picture,doesnt mean i go round doin post offices over m8,an uve got a sniper rifle in ur sig

dojj

iTrader: (3)

both bits of "video evidence" show the police being well out of proportion when arresting the person they've been duffing up

there is nothing before to show what the other person may have done, so you can't say "he might have been lobbing a brink at them" or whatever, but even if this were the case, the police should have shown more restraint

it's not a job where you shoudl be allowed to go around clobbering people, be they louts or not

i've been arrested once or twice in my time, and they still show up on the crb, even the ones from when i was a juvinile that shouldn't show up, or so i was lead to believe

it is a very fine line between doing your job and having to put up with it and doing your job and everyone looking for ways to fuck you up if you make a mistake

S1rst

I dont see the problem here. He was acting a nob and resisting so there quite within there rights to do what they need to do. A few punches in the shoulder to try and get him to put his hands down and relax is hardly anything to shout about. No one knows what he's done for a start! Would it be ok to do this if he'd just mugged an old lady or slapped a woman? Come on people/moaners, get a grip!

Its partly because of people moaning about things like this why the country is in the state it is. So carry on shouting about a little ruff up to get him to comply, and see the country get even worse.

Ginge !

wont show up on CRB heck due to no caution or conviction but police always have info for crimes even if no further action just incase you get caught for the same,,,,, and the last time just was no real evidence

i still get mentioned about the scooby being taken off me for no insurance,,, even though no further action was done apart from me having to pay the cash to get the car back as i was insured, was told that info also stays with the car too aswell as if theres suspected links with crime based on people grassing the reg to the feds over the phone

CRAIG HAYTER

police are scum bastards end off!!!no need for thatwhy not just both them cuff him then away?they think they are above the lawTOTAL WANK SCUM BASTARDS!!!never trust them aswell a guy from glasgow handed over 10k he found and they kept it even though no one claimed it so that would have been his but they gready bastards kept it even though his life my be in danger i have no time for the scum maybe if they were not so much of cunts i would have diffrent views but iam alway going to hate the scum and iam a family man dont do football etc etc only cars so its not like i do hate them with my mates they just are the pure scum of the earth the biggest crooks are cops!!!if the lad was that dangerous why did 2 of the assist?he has not branded any weapons i would be kicking them aswell if i was getting tazered aswell just no need for it if they would speak to people on the same level instead of having there noses that far up each others arses people like myself and other that dont like them MAY have a nicer attitude to themand thats what they get paid for to speak to the publicthe only people defending them is goodie 2 shoes bum lickers or cops or something to do with police!!! IMOA

skeg

No it wouldn't! The police are there to arrest people its not Judge Dredd where they are all in one right there on the street!! Force should be used based on how much they resist or the threat they pose. What crime they have committed is irrelevant or it should be.

(don't get me wrong some crimes we read about, serious crimes are shocking and we all say thing like "need hanging" etc but the police aren't there to dish out punishments).

You telling me if someone bombs a school but walks out to armed police with his hands in the air surrendering that he should be kicked to death? In theory yes it would be fair but its not right is it or their job to decide.

dojj

iTrader: (3)

my recent interactions with the emergency services have led me to come to the following conclusions:

paramedic's are ace

firefighters are brave

coppers always look for the easy way out but it does depend on the copper and the crime, my last several instances over the past few years have only had 3 positive reports to make, one when my brother got mugged a few years ago, when i went to report the assult on my wife in tecso and when someone tried to force his way into the house after not showing any ID and although neither resluting in arrests or any further contact, at the time it was very reassuring to know that there was this service available for those who have been on the wrong end of criminal intent

the rest, i'm sorry to say, i have been left with the feeling that the coppers wern't intrested and just wanted to go and finish their shift and wanted as little hassle as possible, even when the evidence was right there in front of them to do stuff with

Psycho Warren

iTrader: (5)

The only people whos life is going to be in danger over handing in Ł10k is going to be a criminal scum bag anyway. So tough shit on them.

Fezza

Someone said earlier about the guy at the G20 who got shoved for 'excersising his right to walk slowly' and so was being 'an awkward cunt'...and then went on to say that if the guy had used common sense it wouldn't have happened.

If the copper had used common sense he would have known that his actions were grossly over-reactive and that the consequences of shoving somebody hard in the back, who has their hands in their pockets, was going to be messy. Whether the guy was being 'an awkward cunt' or not, it does not give a civil servant (yes, the police are supposed to SERVE us...) the 'right' to remove his collar numbers (for fear of identification?) whilst on duty, nor to use what appeared to be excessive force to move a person on.

Yes, the police have the 'right' to use force when arresting you if they deem it nessesary.

HOWEVER, just as the guy walking...just because they have the right, doesn't mean they SHOULD excersise it. Surely there needs to be an element of discretion when dealing with incidents. The police had every 'right' to push the guy at G20, doesn't mean they should have done it... The police had every right to use the tazers etc and this force on the guy resisting (possibly) arrest...doesn't mean they should have.

People have mentioned how it was years ago when police would cuff ya round the head and send ya on ya way. Well, that shows an element of discretion. Police actions today (maybe not in general, but certainly in episodes caught on camera) seem to show officers using the maximum amount of force with little provocation because it is 'easier' than trying to talk someone down, or using other means (psychological, unarmed physical etc) to achieve the goal.

Whilst I understand that the police face greater risks nowerdays with the prevelence of drugs, binge-drinking, etc, I also believe that a less agressive approach can achieve the same goal in many situations without the anamosity generated when being 'gung-ho'.
As a mental health nurse, I have had to deal with situations that are comparable to many Saturday-night incidents on the ward of secure hospitals. I and my collegues have dealt with the situations without tazers, batons etc and only rarely had to resort to the use of fast-acting tranquilisers. Training and observation are key in the management of such events, and should be for the police. We are taught management of agression techniques that are effective on people who are exremely troubled and frightened to the point of violence. Why can't the police use the same techniques?
I feel it is because they are too ready to rely on their equipment (cs, tazer, baton etc) for whatever reason (easier, less hassle, less work...).

The use of force to detain a person should be a LAST RESORT and not a first choice when dealing with a situation.

skeg

WOW, what a post, blows them away IMO

CRAIG HAYTER

your wrong!!!it was in the papers a few month ago the boy found it under his work van and THOUGHT HE WOULD BE A GOOD GUY WOULDNT HAVE BEEN ME BUT HE STILL THOUGHT HE WAS DOING A GOOD DEED why the hell would he walk into the police station and say"oh look i have found this money under my work van just take it" just proves they are SCUM do you know for a fact that the police are the biggest crimals out there

Psycho Warren

iTrader: (5)

but how was his life in danger??????

CRAIG HAYTER

well it could have been drug money etc etcbut being a good guy he handed it in

Psycho Warren

iTrader: (5)

but was his life in actual danger or is it hypothetical danger because you dont actually know?? for a start a drug dealer wouldnt go after someone like that. drug dealers arent fucking stupid and will know he wont know whose money it was.

in fact a dealer would be more likely to go after him if hed kept the money so he could beat him up to recover the money.

CRAIG HAYTER

Warren they kept it but BY LAW if there is no one to claim it it then can be claimed by the finder but in this case the scum kept it end off

Psycho Warren

iTrader: (5)

I still dont see how that put the good citizen who handed the money in, in actual risk???

and did they keep it to themselves or was the money put into the polices budget funds???

CRAIG HAYTER

well lets put it this way Warren he didnt get it and if a drug dealer put it there for collection via a drug deal?and they have proberly seen the guy thats what makes him at risk he would have been better off keeping the money instead off handing it in

mk1escoz4x4

Now whos being "johnny concrete" old bill are all the same NO ARSEHOLE and bullied at school!

It's Czech Mate

If the G20 guy was an isolated incident then yes the shove was excessive


however you are viewing it in isolation and it wasnt, there was about to be a riot involving several hundred people, the police need co-operation from those not involved and need to get minor irritants out of the way, for their own good.

They were quite right to shove the bloke out of the way, it was totally a situation of his own making, with an unfortunate ending. Why should ten officers of an understaffed force about to deal with a large and violent riot have to waste their time and resource to talk a man down just because he's being awkward and breaking the law by not co-operating with a policemans instruction?