Jim Green

Ok...... I haven't driven either of these cars, but I'm in a position to choose one or the other. As alot of you know I've been through most of the performance cars from "Extreme to Exotic" (430bhp Cosworth, E39 M5, TVR Tuscan). Cosworth was a great car that I had for 15 years and was great fun to drive and a genuine enthusiasts car which I loved and still miss, but was a total Money Pit. M5 was the nicest and most reliable car I've ever driven, which I had total confidence in and just couldn't fault. TVR Tuscan was a dream....... and the fastest thing I've ever driven in both acceleration and top speed "extreme to say the least", a fantastic car but potentially horendously expensive if something ever went wrong, and not a car I'd feel totally confident to take into Europe on an enthusiastic long distance drive (But I enjoyed every moment and had a constant grin on my face evertime I got into it.

Now I'm in a position to choose from the above two cars, at around the £14 - 16k mark.

Neither would be modified more than a chip upgrade/mapping session (Been there, done that), they'd be expected to do the odd track day, they'd also be expected to be a daily driver and therefore offer some refinement and reliability. Depreciation is a concern. Not too bothered about miles per gallon, I just fill it up when it gets close to empty.

The EVO offers about the best handing you can get in a performance saloon car, the potential of 380bhp with not much more than a mapping session and an uprated fuel pump is very tempting, and the car looks right at a track day or motorsports events, but can be associated with the boy racer. (And I'm not exactly in my twenties.... I wish I was).

The E46 M3 appears offers performance & reasonable handing with refinement and a hint of class. With the potential to be a reliable high performance saloon that never looks out of place at the race track or in Park Lane, and like the M5 will sit at high speeds for hours with no problems at all.

Having owned the E39 M5, I know to alot of people it might seem like a downward step, but I'm single, don't need a large four door car, and always appreciated the last of the six cylinder M3's and although not quite a fast as the M5 in acceleration, from A - B on an everyday road, is capable of making up time in the handling.

For the money I'm willing to spend, I'm looking at up to a late 2005 EVO, even an "MR"..... or a late 2003/2004 M3 (Both with sensible mileages).

EVO "MR's" are quite rare, and the sellers seem to know what they've got, so prices seem fairly level throughout the market. But I could get what I want for around the £14 - 15k mark. Or I could spend a little less and go for a mint FQ or spend even less and go for a EVO 7 RS, which for around the £10k mark I could possibly find a very low mileage and totally mint example.

M3's come up quite often at auction (British Car Auctions) and you have to potential to get a good car at a bargain price (Relatively Speaking, compared to buying privately or from the trade). Never been afraid of the auctions, and if you know what your looking at then it's down to you.

Anyone with any previous experience of either ????? (From an owners point of view).

RC4

i,d choose the m3 for that money you will get a nice spec,late car in silver grey (best colour i.m.h.o) just cant seem to get along with evo,s for some reason
good luck in whatever you choose jim but with all your knowledge about the m5 you had isnt the obvious choice e46?

Jim Green

Yep...... Always appreciated the build quality of BM's and know the E39 M5's like the back of my hand, so logically my brain should tell me to go with the E46 M3, but those damned japs seem to build a reliable performance car too.

Agree with your colour choice...................Silver is faster too.

Harris.

Id go for the EVO.They look good, goes like stink. a mate of mine has a M5 and he has just bought a M3 to sell on and said the M3 seems total shite to the m5 .

james kiely

iTrader: (5)

hi jim ,it woud have to be the mr for me as i feel after owning a m5 you have owned the ultimate in the bmw range and you may find the m3 a lesser version of the m5 over time.The evo on the other hand will offer that drivers car feeling you know you love like your old saff and tvr had whilst retaining the everyday appeal of reliability and drivability.
cheers james

saff_cossie

I recently sold my 8 MR FQ400 replica (made more power than a standard FQ400) but had all the genuine ralliart goodies to bring it up to the power. Genuine FQ badging as well. This was my second Evo, first one was a 2001 VII. Both cars were faultless and coming from cossie ownership, I wanted something I could drive hard and put away until the next weekend not something I was forever listening for something to break.

Not sure in the UK but Evo's are very cheap to service and parts are dirt cheap for all the consumables here. I would recommend buying a lightly modified one if possible that has been well maintained.

This was mine:

rstoughy

iTrader: (5)

Id say the M3 as thats what i've recently bought BUT i also had an Evo.

The Evo was brilliant and i used and abused it every day for a year including about 400miles on various track days.

Only thing the Evo needed was a couple of Clutches, Brakes and servicing every 4K miles.

Had it not been written off then i might still have one today.

The M3 on the other hand is just soooo much fun out on track. It also has the comfort factor which is nice.

AndyR would be the man to answer this as he has an MR and he also had a shot of my BM about a month ago.

The BM @ a local track day: http://www.cslregister.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1817

Adam.

GORGEOUS!

danneth

surely if you have had the m5 then the m3 would feel abit of a come down?

R5FORD

iTrader: (1)

m3. Nice easy on the eyes and get in and drive. No headache. But Carbon Black i a must

Sounds awesome aswel

Staffi

iTrader: (1)

Neither Jim, go and try a Hawkeye Spec C, i think you might be suprised....

Remember mine?? stunning out of the box cars.

I,ve had a MR 320 aswell remember, running 460bhp/442ft/lb courtsey of Mr Shead with a forged Engine and Autronic etc. Great car yes, very capable but the Spec C is in another league for handling..

Jim Green

Thanks for the replies so far.............. Keep them coming I still haven't made my mind up.

PETE : I've been searching for your number and hoped you'd come on this thread as I followed your EVO threads on MLR. And have been looking at Hawkeye Scoobs as well, but not with quite the enthusiasum of the EVO's. But they're selling at VERY good prices compared to the EVO MR's.

Jim

Jim Green

I know what your saying....................... But was hoping the M3's agility would make up for the slightly slower acceleration. There's not alot between them, but the M5 certainly is a fantasic car.

Windle

have never been in or driven an M3 so can't comment on that side. however i have just last week bought an evo 8 MR the car is spotless has done 20,000 miles and is running around the 400 BHP mark i paid a good few k less that what you are saying above, expensive toys just are not selling so be cheeky. i realy can't fault mine at all

Staffi

iTrader: (1)

Jim.

PM sent fella.....

turbo_3dr_tommy

you cannot get a MR 360 E8 mate only in the E9's and they have the mivec engines aswell which are fantastic

my mate has a E8 FQ340 MR and with just a decat made 366 bhp and it goes really well so with a exhaust and remap you are up to 400bhp and a excellant road car

Ryan

in exactly the same boat as you jim, cant decide but im pretty much fixed on an m3, but may push myself and get a csl, but unsure if i can justify it as a toy in the current climate, and seeing as im only going to do probably 4000-5000 a year, same as you depreciation is a factor

im hunting for a grey or black m3, smg, and with either black or red leather

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

EVO 8 Jim, everyone has to own one at least once. You already know what its like to own the M series. Try the EVO now, incredible cars, really miss mine actually.

carlo

iTrader: (4)

Ryan i think you will be safe with the csl they are at thee right money just now

Rhys

One thing to consider with the EVO is they need a service very regular, where as the M3 you can go 13k+ miles etc.

If i was in your situation i would also be finding it hard to choose. But i think i would end up going with an M3 juse because it is a much more quality car to be in etc. As where by the EVO rocks in performance when you curising about it does not have that luxury car feel the BMW will have. And for me i think that would push me towards the M3.

silky16v

iTrader: (1)

Evo 8 MR FQ320 in Gunmetal or ultra rare white (if you can find 1)

don't bother with a 8 MR FQ340 if you are planning on re-mapping it as they come with a crappy after market inline chipped module to get the extra 20bhp

if you look on the MLR now there is this lovely example it a MR FQ300 so doesn't have the HKS hard-pipe kit or sports CAT
http://www.lancerregister.com/showthread.php?t=260828

but the basics of all the 8 MR's are the same

all you'd need for that car is a full 3" exhaust (£450-£500) a walbro fuel pump (£70) and a re-map (£350-£400) & a wide-band setup (£250) and your good to go for 380bhp+
I would also invest on some decent brake pads & discs (Carbotec XP8's & PF Discs)

you can also save money by using 1 of the many free modified ECU roms for the ECU to get you to 380bhp+ and they guy you need to speak to on the MLR is: GrayW

These modified ECU roms have many extra built in like:

: Engine knock detection (flashs ecu light)
: Duel Maps
: Intercooler spray to come on at lower temperature and when knock is detected etc
: Valet mode (engine can not be rev'd past a set rpm when activated
there are also some other aswell.

buy 1 and enjoy miss mine everyday they are very capable cars indeed

KEVFRST

EVO 8 MR FQ320 everyday. Build quality on BMW is great, but the evo is way way more fun. Ive had the pleasure of owning a MR FQ320 from new, for the past 4 years and seen many a M3 owner off. Mine was totally standard, no engine issues and tbh the panels didnt rattle as bad as I thought they would.

Jim Green

Mmmm....... EVO is certainly getting alot of votes. I've spent about a month browsing the MLR web site and took in all of the info on what to look for. Tuning is relatively straight forward and it appears I could get close to 400bhp without much expence. (Certainly a lot less than I spent on the cossie to get the same, and at the end of the day I think they are the modern escort cossie).

Decisions Decisions.


STU : Thanks for the PM. (Stealth........LOL, You know me too well).

Thanks for the info guys. Really appreciated.

Regards Jim

fish99

Go for the Evo... Im currently saving the pennies for an MR FQ360 9... went and saw one at Xtreme... bloody lovely cars

PT

Jim I thought the Tuscan was gonna be a keeper. You sounded well happy with it, and had ironed out the potential headaches. What made you get rid?

wapster

jim bm mate 4x4 for girls ;0) imo!!!!!!!!!!!!!

dave cos4x4

iTrader: (5)

debating the same decision myself lol, evo seems to be the one to go for though.

GARETH T

i love everything about the e46 M3, i like everything about the evo's apart from there looks!
so for me, it would have to be an M3

rstoughy

iTrader: (5)

I dont think it's fair to say the Evo is more fun than the M3 unless you have had both.

Having owned and tracked both id say the M3 beats the evo on the fun factor. Of course thats only my opinion but at my last fun day i had the most requests for passenger laps and was the most entertaining car of the day

Jim Green

They both have there advantages....... M3 looks good, performs well, and has the build quaility. EVO does look abit dated relative to alot of cars, performs well in standard form and for not alot of dosh (Relatively Speaking) you can have almost 400bhp and it'll still be reliable. Image - The BM i think has the better image, depending where you are, EVO lends it's self to the yuppie boy racer.

Depreciation ????????? Which one will depreciated less from its present day price ??????

PETE : Will give you a call after the weekend (I'm at work at the mo...........).

TVR : Got offered a very good price from someone on Piston Heads after putting the car on show at the TVR Car Show at Chatworth House two weekends ago. It was an offer I couldn't refuse. (Lets just say I had the car 8 months and it ended up costing me not a penny.......for 8 months of experiencing real supercar performance). Loved every minute and they're alot more reliable than they're given credit for. A few years down the line I'll probably go back to them, but in the mean time I need a saloon car, with more than one passenger seat.

Jim

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Do you want a driver's car, or a car that your Nan could drive 90% as fast as you?

If it is the former, chose the E46 M3 (must have APs, KWs, Gruppe M induction and Supersprint ). If it is the latter, pick the Evo . I have driven both around the Nordschleife, and the M3 did it for me . Really balanced, easy to slide and so much fun. The Evo was easily quicker (370bhp Evo FQ340MR), but was anodyne by comparison.

jasonp

We had an M3 SMG lasy year and it was a great car, good at any speed and always nice to drive. The diffs and SMG box can be expensive to repair if they break, ours only had 32k miles on and the diff went so they arent bullet proof. We were going to get another one but im looking at an 2007/8 RS4

Guile1

Evo 8 Just IMO, M3's as are everywhere.... only down side is the stigma and bad attention the evo will get... But overall Evo wins.. Just

bigchez

I'd go for the Evo as M3 prices are coming down pretty quickly.

Jim Galbally

ive driven n either but form my passenger experiences of both i'd say mike's comments hold true.

they both drive very differently and either one or the other will suit your driving style

leecavturbo

Rajaman on the mlr has his ultra rare and ultra gorgeous white mr for sale for £14k! thats so cheap you'll not loose money on that

MikeR

Jim, you came for a blast in my MR FQ 320, l like the buzz of the turbo but they can be a little basic compared to an M3 l would imagine but as Stu said everybody has to own one at some stage

Mike

morto

you now i just cant get to grips with bmw,s they seem great if your about 90 year old , lol, after going down the evo route .. i love them , get the evo mate you wont regret it

andy

jam400bhp

evo all the way, i spent all day saturday round combe woke up this morning put my 4 kids in went to tesco and come home with a boot full of shopping without changing a thing.
Serious track car one day family car the next.

Stu @ Claims Care Centre

iTrader: (1)

ive this week been looking at evo9 mr and even the Evo9 GT (track version)
aswell looking at the m3. but i think its deffo the evo i want but it has to be a 9