Muska

Is it worth considering one of these over a pc?

I own my own photography business and currently use a pc for all my editing/design.

all programs are available on both formats so thats not an issue, but ease of use etc, i really like the look of a 24"imac and a macbook pro for on location.

Pro's & cons anyone?

Thanks in advance,
Matt.

Jim Galbally

pros:
looks cool
you can use the "i'm a designer so need a mac" line down the pub to all the people who dont know how computers work

cons:
massively OVERpriced
can only do 50% of the things a real computer can

Muska

thanks jim, could you expand on the things it can't do please?

They seem almost industry standard in photographic terms.

thanks in advance,
Matt.

BM08

Im aware of all the pros but i wouldnt buy one simply because of the cost.

You could buy a super fast pc for the price of a mac

Mr S1

iTrader: (2)

I run an Imac and it's far superior to a PC. Everything is so much easier to use, far more logical and far more stable than Windows as an OS will ever be.

Downsides are it does take a little while to get used to, and the price. But well worth the extra additional outlay IMO.

BM08

You say(and every other mac user) that its more stable than windows? but ive owned windows pc for years and never had any bother, or certainly nothing i couldnt easily sort.

cozmeister

iTrader: (1)

Sorry but that's horse crap Prove it.

Mr S1

iTrader: (2)

I (and loads of other people I know) have had numerous problems with PC's jamming, Windows needing rebooting etc, viruses.....don't get any problems with Mac's and they are so much less vulnerable to viruses and trojans than a PC mate. I run antivirus software on mine 'just to be sure' but I know a fella who has had a MacBook pro for years and has never run any antivirus software on it. He's an IT engineer and spends all day every day on the web.

Mr S1

iTrader: (2)

Such as ?

Stoo

After using my brothers Macbook Pro while on holiday I'm looking into getting one in the next few weeks. It was a joy to use.

I appreciate you can get better spec'd PC's for a fraction of the price, but I don't care.

Muska

thanks everyone for the replies, useability is certainly high on the adgenda for me, i know if will do what i want with the right programs.

matts1

I run a design agency and we only use a pc for the accounts lady. The rest is all Mac.

IMO, they are as said, more logical, easier to use, more reliable, less subjective to viruses etc.

I have a pc laptop at home and it is frustratingly complicated to use compared to the mac, I am sure if your a big PC boffin then you would find it easy to use, but the mac is just so simple and engineered for the creative market.

I personally run G5 towers with separate screens rather than an all in one built in job, reason being that if the screen goes, you can just change the screen and be back to work in minutes.

Turbocabbie

mac's are pc's these days, they are not different they no longer run RISK architecture they are intel x86 bases boxes
The are great to use have a decent OS, however they are only for people who use computers as tools to get jobs done.
Going by the industry standard PC the specifications of Apple products are very poor for the price imho

Windows and Mac's can only do 50% of the things a real computer can simply because the source code is not available as such you can not change things to suit your needs, as such you can only do what Microsoft and Apple allow.
For freedom to do what you want and need use Linux

pa_sjo

Turbocabbie- how many Linux applications have you re-written to suit you then?

cozmeister

iTrader: (1)

Macs don't have BIOSes, they have an EFI, so they're still not PCs, despite using the same CPU architecture...

You can't compare the two on money against clock speed - the Mac OS has always been written to be so much more efficient than its contemporaries.

The Mac OS is only difficult to learn if you try to use it like Windows. But, once you've become accustomed to using one, the other is always going to be a culture shock.

Did anyone notice that Windows and DOS are probably the only operating systems that allow you to try and access a floppy or CD drive that has nothing in it.

And it's RISC, btw

Pardeep

Hey dude, i use to work for Apple Mac as a Technician. I can honestly say that when i was working there i had no intentions of owning a Mac or anything. I just knew how they worked as it was apart of my job.

When i started my 2nd degree (Music Tech) last year, i knew i was gonna need a Mac so bought one for the fact of needing one and to be honest i will never use a PC again. Mainly for the fact that they are solid machines, don't have the worry of getting a Virus (not that you can't get them on a Mac), Once its booted up its ready to go.

I still get my discount and know a few people still working at Apple so i can put you in touch with someone if you need.

cheers mate.

Cossie Helen

iTrader: (1)

I bought a Mac laptop, it's cool, easy to use, no virus worry. I really like the Iphoto, much more easy to use that any PC photo software I have used.

Tho I do still like PC's, especially as I do a lot of work on Word and Excel and I dont find the Microsoft applications very user friendly on the Mac, maybe it is because I know where all the short cuts are on a PC for Word and Excel.

Pardeep

Hey Helen

Microsoft products for 2008 have many bugs. The early stage you couldn't open a document you have done on say 2004 Office Mac in 2008 Office. I think they have rectified the problem now but the best Office for Mac was 2004.

Cossie Helen

iTrader: (1)

I have the new up to date Microsoft Office on the laptop, but I still cant get on with it very well

Pardeep

lol i'm still getting use to it.

Turbocabbie

A few applications have been modified to suit the manner which I require in my day to day job along with a substantially modified fluxbox desktop environment.
I work alongside Windows users who are not able to modify their environments to such as degree to make work life substantially easier for them.

Im reluctant to say I have had the need to rewrite anything at this time, however the fact remains that due to the source code being available for Linux it is easier to modify, port and make it do what you want, you are not limited by what the developers permit you to do and evidence of this can be shown on the number of architectures and products the same Linux kernel has been compiled for as such you can do more with it.

It was also a humorous attempt to respond to the comment made regarding they can only do 50% of the things a real computer can and point out that windows is as restrictive as the next os.

I actually really like mac's just think they are a little over priced on the hardware side

Turbocabbie

If that's how you define a PC I guess you would be correct. I define a PC as being an x86 compatible computer system which the Apple most certainly is.

Opps it's the spell checker in Microsoft Office playing up

one for me

cozmeister

iTrader: (1)

Mhhmm, true, but, a PC in the strictest sense is an IBM PC compatible, with an IBM PC (or compatible) BIOS and x86 (or compatible) processor...Until PCs for the general public inherit EFI (Itaniums don't count :P), Macs are still one step ahead.


Good old Microsoft eh?

pa_sjo

Right. So you've had APPLICATIONS modified. What's that got to do with the operating system? You get open source software for both Linux and Windows.

With regards to the "substantially modified" (by that I believe you mean 'configured'), yes you can do that on Windows too. There are lots of alternative shells for Windows, like LiteStep (albeit crap).

It's not Window's fault that these users don't know how to use/customise their O/S fully!

Right, so you harped on about how great Linux is because the source code is available and you can customise it.. yet you haven't done it, so there's no advantage to closed source (whatever the o/s). And honestly, just because a bunch of bored hippies have spent 2 years of their life making some lightweight lunix kernel work on a microwave really doesn't make it superior to a 'closed' o/s.

Thrush

iTrader: (1)

LOL

I've never owned a Mac computer - either desktop or notebook, but after having used them several times, I much prefer OS X over Windows..... But then I've hated Windows since I really started using computers properly, which was back in the Win 95 days - well before I even knew what a Mac was - and about 10yrs before I ever used a Mac! In fact the only prior expirience of Mac's was in recording studio's back in the late 90's...

But I just so much prefer OS X to anything Windows has done. As much as I am pretty good with Windows, and don't suffer much, if at all, from virus's or spyware, Windows constantly locks up, freezes, stutters, doesn't do what you want it to, does stuff you don't want it to, etc etc. I mean on the whole it''s pretty good, but it's not as good, or stable, as I'd like it to be. And I know why Mac's are used in graphics, design, and music situations - the OS is just that much more stable!

GARETH T

i seen a back to back test, rendering and picture manipulation on both a pc and mac, and the pc out performed by miles!

my whole company runs on pc's (about 600 computers) and yet the photographer uses the only mac LOL

Turbocabbie

I along with work colleagues have changed current applications to suit our requirements, at no point did I claim that I solely wrote every application I use or hack it.
If an application serves its purpose and performs in the manner I require why would I or anyone else need to change them?

Im forced to use a number of different bastion servers in my role for different tasks. I have applications part installed on my system and partly remotely hosted, getting the functionality required from my system I assure you required a little more than a theme change or gui tweak

I think you will find I actually made no reference towards customising it, my comment was that with Microsoft and Apple you can only do what they permit you to do, for example if I want to run WindowXP as a DNS server I would have no need for a gui as this would continue to consume resources because of this I would like to know how can I install a functional XP without the desktop.

I also love old hardware, it interests me I have recently acquired a good old Sparc box I would like to run Windows Vista on it can you tell me how, if not I guess XP would be acceptable

One of my friends has a dead mac laptop which has been dropped, as I have a legal licence of OSX I would legally like to run this OS on a compatible x86 Dell Laptop does the OSX licence permit this?

Im fully aware that you can hack the arse out of windows, OSX and any operating system if you so choose. Im also aware that you can run operating systems under emulated environments on different architecture, likewise Im aware that OSX can physcially be run on x86 non Apple hard wear however the licence forbids doing such as such you do not have the freedom to use the system as you desire.

When vista was first released you could not buy a legal copy of Vista Home and run it in a virtual machine legally as the licence forbid this. Of course due to public outrage this situation has recently changed and the licence reviewed however the compay making the product was restricting the use of it.

As a geek, a bored hippy I would like to be able to upgrade my hard wear on a regular basis without having to call microsoft and convince them that I am not a thief and I have a right to use the OS I have paid for, if this is not restrictive I do not know what is

At no point did I state that I think Linux is superior to a closed source OS as both in my mind have virtues, I obviously have my preferences but i am actually a big fan of OSX and run it of sorts myself (gnu/darwin)

My statement which I still stand by was.
Now unless we are condoning breaking the law, I fail to see how I am not restricted by the product licence from doing some of the things mentioned here which the systems have been proven to be capable of

To clarify further, OSX has been proven to work on non Apple hard wear and it does this very well indeed however legally I am forbid from placing the OS onto Dell hard wear, who prevents me the freedom from doing this?
As such you can only legally do what Apple permit, you are not limited by the functionality of the operating system itself

http://www.apple.com/legal/sla/

Thrush

iTrader: (1)

I've seen OS X on "Windows" PC's and it doens't do it well.... about 3mins to boot fully to a workable state - Apple machines do it it in a tenth of that!

Mr S1

iTrader: (2)

Thirty seconds after turning the Mac on I'm on the web, no bother at all.

DanW@FastFord

iTrader: (1)

Whenever I go on a PC I'm amazed by how unintuitive and unnecessarily complex it is. The Mac OS just seems so much more sensible, easy to use, and more aesthetically pleasing. I'm not arsed about all the geeky computer stuff, so the 'my computer can open applications faster than your computer' arguments don't interest me. I just want it to be fast, easy and uncomplicated.

I use a G5 Tower at work and a PowerBook G4 and iMac G5 at home and totally agree the price issue is a big one, but I'd never buy a PC even if they were 50p.

Mr S1

iTrader: (2)

Thats what I find Dan - as I said earlier Mac's are so much more logical. I'm no IT geek (at all) I can turn it on and do the basic stuff but I'm amazed why more people don't use them.

I suspect price is the main factor but once anyone has used a Mac they'd be hard pushed to go back to PC or anything Windows based.

Muska

Thanks, this thread has been great Reading for me.
I'm going to have a good play with one at a shop to
Tomorrow.
I have a question though, I use microsoft publisher for designing invoices etc, is there a similar program that's macs have?

Mr S1

iTrader: (2)

IF you can do it on a PC mate, it can be done on a Mac - and it'll be a darn sight easier as well. I don't know is the honest answer to your direct question but everything else I've done is easier, so no doubt that will be as well.

Muska

Thanks, I'll no doubt hound the assisstant tomorrow!

Its Dave

iTrader: (4)

Work for Apple


Just love iPhoto and iMovie

Then if you really want top applications then there is Logic Pro and Final Cut

tonyk

If you already have a pc and all your editing software it would make more sense to stay with the PC as you wont have to buy it all again. I have no problems with Virus, Crashing with Windows Vista or any of the PC myths doing the rounds but then I know what I am doing with a PC.

A Mac Pro starts at about Ł2500 with the 24" Mon, that would buy one hell of a PC for that price, In Fact you could have a top end PC with 2 x 24" Mon's and still get a wad of change. Apple look cool and thats the main advantage of them.

tonyk

Im not sure how that is any different than a PC? I let mine hiberbate, shake the mouse it wakes up and then I click IE and im on the net and I would presume this is the same most users.

The problem with comparing PC to Mac is, and to use a MikeR phrase - Its like comparing Apples to Oranges.

DanW@FastFord

iTrader: (1)

Or Yamahas to Ducatis! Sometimes overall performance and price don't make it a 'better' buy.

Pardeep

Logic Pro is Amazing. But there is so much that program can do, you really need to take notes lol My degree is based all around Logic Pro lol

Jade Goody

A lot of waffle on this thread.

Apple products are superb!

Apple lubed me up with their ipods.. then the 3g iPhone. The result.......



I have now just bought a 2.26 mac mini to sit next to my LCD as a home theatre using PLEX

AND also just bought an iMac 3.06 with the AT radeon card and 1GB HDD

happy days

They also look UBER bling.

Now I just need to learn how to use apples OS.

logic pro.. is that the music creation software? I want that!

@ It's Dave.. you work at apple.. can you get me a copy any cheaper than if I bought it from the HE store?