what cams are you using?

 

i dont think ava mess with fig`s

cause they do all the mapping on my car,and i get higher bhp results every where else ive had it

 

Colin did you end up buying Euans gearbox? I know you were thinking about it!

****edit*** just seen you have!

Have you had a power run to see if the box and its gearing have altered your power?

 

Why do I bother

 

not had it back on rollers yet andy

going in for further mapping soon i hope,its got the gearbox,intercooler and exhaust,just need to get inlet sorted to accept my new throttle

and my bigger brakes fitted

 

barry, out of interest what tuner was that? i think i know....pm me if you prefer mate or post here i,m not bothered

 

topic sint about top speeds, its about pwoer figures.

speed would cause another arguement about gearboxes etc... lol

 

Got to see it form others perspectives too though mate,

• AVA spec your engine.
• AVA tweak Marks map.
• AVA develop and test your turbo
• AVA's rollers are used for power runs.

Its in their interest to make it work and let others know that it works. When you add into the equasion that even the charts your using to back up how good it is arent accurate and don't relate purely to the addition of the turbo alone. Then isn't it a wonder others are skeptical?

Stepping back from the situation and looking in from an outsiders perspective - If it were such a great improvement and if it wasn't just a marketing ploy then wouldn't other tuners and engine builders be lining up to concur with just how good it is?

 

Cool Colin best of luck with it - it will be interesting to see how much difference all your new goodies make.

It would have been really, REALLY interesting to see how each individual mod added to the power but I guess thats just to many visits and to much effort to be practical!

 

GMC Motorsport in Newton Stewart mate, John Dobson. I used them primarily because I was in to Peugeots and Citroens and that's there speciality, over the years I became good friends with John and was constantly amazed at his knowledge. Both him and his brother were engineers first and cars came after so the knowledge they have is astonishing, relating to more than just cars. They do a lot of tuning on race cars too and don't simply do Pugs/Cits though and I have seen ALL sorts in there. And were multiple Saloons Champions in the 90's.

John installed an underfloor heating system that was solar powered by himself, and the install was amazing!!!! He originally asked the "experts" but didn't like their answers hahaha

Don't get me wrong, if MSD were next door to me and I had a Cossie, I would probably go there but GMC was my choice and I never had any complaints with them ever.... and I spent a lot there over the years...

 

What happened to that subaru that ava were doing? i heard that it was being broken.My guess that they took that long fucking about as usual the guy got fed up like most ppl that attend there! Thing is they use customers cars as guinne pigs (sp) testing on them & trying new stuff.Why change the wheel with & tried & tested methods..It would be a quicker turnaround for them & maybe get them more buisness instead of the secret squirrell stuff & cars being left there untill they are vintage in a corner.

 

Carlo I would agree with you there, they use people's time to do development basically. That was another reason I used GMC, they ran demo vehicles and developed their own stuff before releasing to customers. They also run race vehicles and develop on them. Obviously some customers wanted to push the envelope and generally they could only be advised on best route but that's to be expected.

A friend of mine from Scotland had a well known AVA car and it was never out of the place, when it was out it would be straight back. It even blew on their dyno when doing testing(on Nitrous I believe) but it wasn't their fault and he was paying the repair. But he couldn't be told, just kept going back....

 

Not sure the public slating of ava is particulalry fair or needed on here tbh. Euan was happy with them. His car did what he wanted it to do.

 

Thats what they want you to believe... truth is on his top speed run the engine let go. Super AVA strikes again.

TBH Rich i dont know of any of AVA's "projects" that have been successful... Euans was probably best but i could name a lot of other cars in there long term and none finally made it.

 

All the runs I remember he did a good top speed?

Benni.

 

He did but the engine let go.

 

Turkish block syndrome is the word your looking for ollie

 

I think Euan had a similar problem to what MAD has had on what 3?? engines now during top speed runs, but do agree about some of the rest.
My engine is loosly based on Euans engine but the basic spec is tried and tested as its the same as the old touring cars, low comp,big head, big cams and T4.

 

neil thats why i have went 8 greens rs500 inlet , t4 ect tried & tested

 

What people have to remember is no matter what you bolt onto it, a YB is basically a 2.0 4 pot pinto engine with a fancy head, once you start pushing past 500BHP problems will be much more frequent, it just wasn't designed to run that sort of power day in day out, don't forget the touring cars were being re-build EVERY race!!

Consider that a Mclaren F1 makes 103BHP per litre, (6.0 V12!) , an old Pinto pushing 250+ per litre is going to need a LOT of maintainance to keep it reliable.

Instead of slating tuners can we get back onto the turbo topic which was quite interesting

 

I think its certain people on here who have bad experiences with AVA think if they shout loud enough people will beleive them. Like euan has said before, if he thought someone else was gonna get better results with his car then he would have went elsewhere.

I dont think euan was blinkered at all.

No tuner is perfect!! and you will hear bad stories about them all.

Carlo, bolt on all the usual stuff to ur car and it wont make what euans made (suppose you would have to go to avas rollers to prove that, (whats that flying past the window? a pig) ) the reason i think euans was better than most others at a similare spec is the stuff AVA did themselves ie the Exhaust.

And as for his engine supposedly letting go on a top speed run then how did he drive home from glasgow on a bust???? engine after the daddy thrash?

Oh and if the probs he had were AVAs fault then MAD YUM et al better get on the blower to AVA too because they seem to have some sort of special powers to cause probs to engines they have never even seen!!!

im also sure that the whole time euan was developing his car he was trying to make suer his was the best around for that spec, if someone from another tuner even hinted that they knew how to make his car faster than AVA could he would have been right on the phone.


BAck to the topic

Why did mike rainbird get the same turbo as euan if its no good for 500hp?? not exactly shy at speccing his car is he???

 

We all know the turbo is good for 500 bhp..Think ppl just prefer the gt turbo's now.
My car will never be anywhere ava for obvious reasons.Like ollie says euans car is the only success story thats came out of ava the rest have been long drawn out projects with the owners get fed up.but i am now just repeating myself.
I get on very well with euan & without being 2 faced i think he is a bit blinkered as there are more unhappy ppl than there is happy..

 

I would just like to add that the problem with Euan's engine was the exact same as the MAD engine, in that they used long studs not really up to the job. Both companies switched to the same ones and the problem was resolved.

The issue was the longstuds stretching causing head gasket failure, I fail to see how this is an engine failure, as the engines were still running perfectly, but were pressurising the cooling system.

When you run engines at this power level, things break, so you have to have the BEST parts available. You only learn at what power level things break / are inadequate by pushing these limits.

Also, regarding my own engine making 395bhp at the wheels at AVA compared to Euans, you cannot compare apples with oranges. My car had a hugely tall final drive (3.36), which meant that my 4th gear was equivalent to most Cossies 5ths and it would have hit over 160mph on the rollers @ 8000rpm. Combine that with high ambients and the fact that the intercooler was insuffcient to maintain charge temps at below 55°C (inducing ignition retard), and the fact that the WI was flat out trying to maintain temps, would all have contributed to lower figures.

Just so you can see the difference - at 1.2 bar, it made 320bhp @ the wheels (perfect ACTs), at 2.2 bar, this only climbed by 75bhp with poor ACTs etc. With a more efficient intercooler (Euan had TWO RS500 ones welded together) and standard gearing, I would imagine that it would have seen at least 420bhp - 430bhp @ wheels...

Incidentally, my roller bearing T4 makes full boost by 3500rpm. People forget that cam choice / timing is critical in turbo boost threshold, and so a turbo is often critcised for it's poor threshold, when it is actually running cams / timing mismatched to the turbo.

 

Mike,

those figures are from your saff yes? 395 at the wheels.

If so, that must have felt very fast as mine made 386 at the wheels

 

I fucking hate all that "we've done a secret mod to the turbo" bollocks.

And it will be bollocks too, I dont believe for a second that AVA are doing anything to turbo's that is unique to them and actually works.

 

Be nice to know what the "secret mod" is tbh. I have a feeling it will be very underwhelming and un-exciting but never mind

 

il have to admit i dont know enough about turbos to say either way, but if this 'secret mod' was so great, why not slap a patent on it or copywrite it or some shit then sell it to everyone who wants it rather than saying, we've developed a high boost low lag mod but no one can have it cos its secret, whats the point of that??

 

I guess some people fall for all that bollocks, which makes them money, so good luck to them, but I dont believe for 1 second they have made some massive leap forward in T4 technology that no one else is doing.

 

thing i have seemed to miss chip is it cant make them money because no one knows about it because its secret!!!

 

Im sure if it was that important someone would have discovered it before now.

 

If the F1 boys get there hands on it, they'll be no longer NA F1 cars. Ron Dennis has been in talks with AVA. I say in talks, they flown out there and AVA never spoke.

Benni.

 

The only secret mod AVA made to euans was to get it to run long enough to do a couple of top speed and power runs... everything else never makes it.

I have no problem with Euan he is a nice guy... its all the AVA bollocks i cant just sit and watch.

 

if there is a "secret mod" to make the T4 a better turbo then why have turbo manafacturers not found it as they would want to make the turbo the best they can ??

 

You're comparing apples with oranges again - two competely different rolling road types .

As to the secret mods to the turbo, I have the same mods carried out on mine as Euan has, and it is to aid flow on the turbine side. It is similar to (cheat) mods carried out by the touring car teams in order to achieve more flow, so it must have worked .

If Alan ever says it is okay, then I will show you the mods, but while he wants it kept "secret" or difficult to find out, then that is the way it stays (from my regard).

 

did yours make big hp like euans ?

 

So presumabley its a bit of porting on the housing, or cut back blades then after all that drama

 

Jim,
You know exactly what power mine made before the mods, I didn't have it dynoed again after the mods, but thought that the removal of any restriction was no bad thing and it was mapped in the car at Bruntingthorpe to take this into account.

 

Mike,

TBH your apples and oranges sayings are getting somewhat annoying mate. You made 395 at the wheels. I dont care on what rr you did it on, all i was saying is it must have been fast are you going to agree or disagree with that ????????

 

What power did it make on the previous dyno run then, and what percentage of fuel did you have to add in to get back to the same AFR, that should give you a bloody good ballpark for what power it was

 

Rich,
It was 180mph fast at Brunters (which you already know ), just go and run yours there if you want a direct comparison, as I was just trying to clarify that given the above circumstances, that IMO it wasn't a true reflection of the actual power.