Chip

iTrader: (3)

PS

Id like to be able to do that if I can make it compact enough to fit within the wheel as it would allow me MASSIVELY more articulation on the joint, but unsure how to do so when the mounting point is a single hole, any suggestions?

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Yes mate, thats one of the things im considering (although bit worried about clearance on the engine side, that picture is the gearbox end where there is more room), but was worried maybe the arms would end up too short if done like that, but I think you are right that its a better option than where its mounted now as it will prevent the rosejoint centre being pushed inwards during commpression (an effect I underestimated when doing the original design TBH, its all a learning curve still for me!)
If I could do something like that it would also mean that I could vary the height of the arm, and hence change if it goes for more toe in or more toe out, but to do so I need more articulation on the joint really, which means I need to turn it round 90 degrees on the outer end ideally.

RickyLee53

The only way with a single hole to move the rosejoint through 90 degrees would be to make some form of cup that goes over the hub carrier then bolts with the hole, kind of like a glove finger, be a bit fiddly but wouldn't be that hard to do in some 6mm steel plate or something. Obviously with a bolt tacked in the end.

That with a plate off the body like in my amazing diagram above i think would be the best option from what i can see.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Im not convinced I would have enough clearance for the wheel by the time I had done that sadly, especially by the time i had a not on it as well etc

And without doing that the problem I have is that the limited articulation of the rose joint means that if the arm is pointed downwards from this new outer mount in order to make it lengthen under compression and hence toe inwards then when the wheels come off the ground the suspension spring is pushing down trying to make the rose joint go past its max articulation which isnt healthy.
(currently because its mounting bolt moves with the bottom arm, it limits the articulation that is needed on the inner edge)

I suspect the only "correct" answer is going to be custom hub carriers with different arms, but obvioulsy thats going to be mega difficult

madmack99

seen it before but everytime i see it i fall in love all over again did you do it yourself

Chip

iTrader: (3)

It was originally converted to be a N/A 2.0 16v by a company in wales (no longer trading) and my ex girlfriend bought it as a runabout as she was a bit of a nutter (the night we picked it up she donutted till the rear tyres burst and went home on an RAC truck )

The whole rear suspension setup was terrible though, and the engine instalation wasnt really much better, so I ripped it all apart and started again, the only thing I havent redone now basically is the actual frame welded in that it mounts to on the shell, so Ive definately got no one but myself to blame if it doesnt work right

Chip

iTrader: (3)

PS, RickyLee, you dont know of a supplier who will supply a rose joint with a 30 degree bend between the joint and the threaded section do you? This will solve my problems totally on the outside edge, and then I could mount the inner joint the othe way up (ie on a horizontal bolt not a vertical one)

In fact, thinking about it, if i do that on the inner edge, i end up no worse off than I am now on the outside, so perhaps I can do that and still use the new inner point mounted to the frame not the arm, and just limit the angle I raise the arm to so its the same as currently

Kverna

iTrader: (1)

My god. That car would've been laughed out of the MOT-station here in Norway. How do you make them believe that this is roadlegal is beyond me

madmack99

fairplay

seems to be working right by the looks of it

Cossie Helen

iTrader: (1)

I hope it is

RickyLee53

I did think of some kind of Z bar type arrangement. But was trying to work out how it would work.

I'l check with who i use, i had some 45* rose joints so i'd imagine they'd do 30* as well.

Garage19

45 deg rose joints! I thought most were about 15 deg max?

Chip

iTrader: (3)

To stop them being under excess strain at the point of angle you mean?

RickyLee53

Those were the only 1s i've seen, so i'd imagine they'll do 30 if they did 45.

Company has changed owners, can't find it on yell.com. But I know it's still there just under a new name so I call in when i pass. Probably be tomorrow.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Nice one mate

Current joints are 1/2 unf, so that would be ideal if they had that size as I could use the existing arms then.

RH thread will be fine, as i'll just put the LH threads on the inner end and use the existing ones for that

Chip

iTrader: (3)

PS

15 degrees might be even better actually, so if you could ask about those too that would be spot on, and i'll send you the case for a few of each so I have plenty to play about with

andy130

iTrader: (2)

class car mate what bhp is that putting out?

Chip

iTrader: (3)

I havent had it on the rollers, but when I mapped my mates astra for low boost to do a shakedown at the same boost pressure (10psi) on a smaller turbo, smaller spec head, and more restrictive inlet, it made 273bhp, so I would guess mine is 280-300 ish currently.

Should be significantly more though once im onto high boost, another friend has a tigra with a slightly lower spec engine on paper, and that made 505bhp, so I guess thats the sort of ballpark I will end up with once Ive mapped it at full boost.

Providing its over 400bhp though, i'll be happy enough.

xr-stu

first off well done on the emmisons and for putting them wheels back on, i always thought the 5 spoke ones looked rubbish compared!

did you ever do what we came up with as far as lowering the original track control arms?

tbh i think the only way this is ever going to 'right' is calibra rear hubs or something along those lines. itll be a mission im sure and may require the subframe replacing or seriously modifying, but if it can get the suspension finally sorted properly itd be worth it. i think its only ever going to be a compromise with the astra hubs, as theyre just not meant to be fitted on the back....

xr-stu

first off well done on the emmisons and for putting them wheels back on, i always thought the 5 spoke ones looked rubbish compared!

did you ever do what we came up with as far as lowering the original track control arms?

tbh i think the only way this is ever going to 'right' is calibra rear hubs or something along those lines. itll be a mission im sure and may require the subframe replacing or seriously modifying, but if it can get the suspension finally sorted properly itd be worth it. i think its only ever going to be a compromise with the astra hubs, as theyre just not meant to be fitted on the back....

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Look above mate, its on totally different hub carriers and new rose jointed track control arms now.

Calibra rears wouldnt be toe adjustable, and the front setup is perfectly acceptable providing I can find the optimimum mount point for the arms, the fact its from the front doesnt actually matter.

rst in breaking

iTrader: (2)

glad to see it on the road again chip, i may be trying ponsing a passenger ride too

xr-stu

chip i meant about just dropping the inner mounting points of the original arms downa few inches like we thought about ages ago? did you try it?

and i mean, the front hubs are never going to be ideal, if you can irradicate the geometry gremlins then fair enough, but id have thought fitting a pair of rear hubs such as the calibra ones id have thought would mean you wouldnt have these problems with inducing toe under compression as theyre mounted differently.

xr-stu

chip i meant about just dropping the inner mounting points of the original arms downa few inches like we thought about ages ago? did you try it?

and i mean, the front hubs are never going to be ideal, if you can irradicate the geometry gremlins then fair enough, but id have thought fitting a pair of rear hubs such as the calibra ones id have thought would mean you wouldnt have these problems with inducing toe under compression as theyre mounted differently.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Tried it, it didnt work well enough.

Rear ones wont be adjustable, its important to me that they are.

would sooner keep going with trying different options now till I have reached the ultimate point in terms of being able to adjust static toe (can do already) and alter dynamic toe in the range I want to (id like to be able to choose any amount of additional toe in over 20mm of travel between +1 and -1 degree) then I can get the optimum for both strip and track.

Just a case of finding the right mounting points and arm angles to allow that.

andy130

iTrader: (2)

fuck me that must be fast when will it be complete chip?

Chip

iTrader: (3)

No idea mate, just do bits and pieces on it when I have the time.

hopefully before this summer though.

foreigneRS

that's a grammar FAIL it's erring

would like to see this in the flesh one day

Chip

iTrader: (3)

oops, yes erring

clarke5700

i dident notise

Chip

iTrader: (3)

you woodnt

rst in breaking

iTrader: (2)

pmsl @ clarke and chip

clarke5700

and its spelt wouldn't (from jade)

clarke5700

i much prefer holding a spanner compaired to a pen

Chip

iTrader: (3)

I know how its fucking spelt, its clarke who no doubt doesnt

clarke5700

saying that cant wate to see the nova one day

Chip

iTrader: (3)

wate

clarke5700

agan jade

clarke5700

i spell it how it sounds............... most the time