st170 engine on throttle bodies?
04-10-2008, 10:26 PM
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st170 engine on throttle bodies?
i picked up and st170 engine today for my mk3 escort and was thinking perhaps putting throttle bodies on it would be a far cheaper option and be great for a track car? what kind of power potential would this have, i have 340cc injectors sitting here, emerald management and thinking of bike throttle bodies as im trying to keep costs down this time and i know how they soon add up with turboing in regards to even little bits like custon hoses etc 
04-10-2008, 10:38 PM
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in n/a form, throttle bodies will give u a large gain. It;s not that cheap or easy though. the head is already really good, so you could just add some wild cams for decent vfm
04-10-2008, 10:44 PM
#3
i picked up and st170 engine today for my mk3 escort and was thinking perhaps putting throttle bodies on it would be a far cheaper option and be great for a track car? what kind of power potential would this have, i have 340cc injectors sitting here, emerald management and thinking of bike throttle bodies as im trying to keep costs down this time and i know how they soon add up with turboing in regards to even little bits like custon hoses etc
GSXR bodies look quite easy
http://www.mez.co.uk/ms10.html
Mark
04-10-2008, 10:57 PM
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my mate and myself were talking and thought that this is probally a more cost effective and better as a track car than to turbo it and def more reliable lol. Anyone else know of any other guides? cheers
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04-10-2008, 11:15 PM
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im hoping anything over 200bhp as i shouldnt be drastically far off with just a decat if i got 10-15bhp so really would like 220bhp if not more but i know nothing about them, think i need to talk with chip lol
05-10-2008, 06:58 AM
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You certainly wouldn't need hotter cams, they're already veeeery hot!!
On standard exhaust ports with ITB's (you don't really need/want larger than 38-40mm based on a standard engine), you should just pip a genuine 200bhp - with a very good exhaust system and excellent mapping.
Ideally though, you'd want to raise the compression ratio..
On standard exhaust ports with ITB's (you don't really need/want larger than 38-40mm based on a standard engine), you should just pip a genuine 200bhp - with a very good exhaust system and excellent mapping.
Ideally though, you'd want to raise the compression ratio..
05-10-2008, 08:21 AM
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Well having done it i know you dont need to weld the fuel rail just throw it away and get one off a blacktop it fits and gives you a fuel pressure reg in the rail. I have gsxr 750 bodies on my st inlet for the blacktop going into my mk3. Space was my only worry till we mounted the engine looks like i have 220mm of clear room behind the head before i start to hit the blower motor cover and the tb ass is 195mm with out filter so should be ok
05-10-2008, 08:43 AM
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Standard st170 engines usually make around 160bhp if it's a good one on a dyno dynamics rolling road . With throttle bodies , a good exhaust and a good remap the standard engine should hit 175-180bhp at best . They will only make 220bhp down the "pub dyno" . If you want a genuine 220bhp then you will need to chuck the VVT shit , change the cams , raise the compression with decent pistons etc , get headwork etc etc 
. If you want a genuine 220bhp then you will need to chuck the VVT shit , change the cams , raise the compression with decent pistons etc , get headwork etc etc
05-10-2008, 10:37 AM
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tbh im just after a reliable engine to pack a punch and not at huge expense like my old zt engine as i dont want to pay twice as it cost a fortune so i thought a cheaper route and n/a could be the route on this engine if it would give me 220bhp roughly and totally unsure off poss torque figure to expect tbh
05-10-2008, 10:49 AM
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are there any oil or water gallerys close to the ports?
05-10-2008, 11:19 AM
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06-10-2008, 08:23 PM
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i belive the st170 engine is hard to extract power from as its quite tuned as it is, i have gsxr1300 hayabusa bodies on my 1600 zetec with cams, raised compression and headwork in my ka and that knocks out just shy of 180bhp
07-10-2008, 10:30 PM
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i believe that is a yamaha engine.
ive spoke to a few people today about running the st170 lump on throttle bodies and it sounds like its going to be grief which i cant be bothered with for just for n/a all because the vvt, i bought the throttle bodies today aswell but may sit on them and sell the engine lol
ive spoke to a few people today about running the st170 lump on throttle bodies and it sounds like its going to be grief which i cant be bothered with for just for n/a all because the vvt, i bought the throttle bodies today aswell but may sit on them and sell the engine lol
07-10-2008, 10:43 PM
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If you're staying N/A you dont need to do any work to the ST170 head (other than cams) the head flows extremely well and doesnt need touching.
The standard Zetec head will flow 200bhp without being touched, and the 170 head is of a better design (by Cosworth) and has bigger valves.
You could stick with the Blackoak ECU system, as I believe Dreamscience have full access to it now, so you could remap that to cope with the changes.
So far one of the big problems people have come up against is a manifold to mount the 'bodies, as the port spacings are different from Zetec heads.
The standard Zetec head will flow 200bhp without being touched, and the 170 head is of a better design (by Cosworth) and has bigger valves.
You could stick with the Blackoak ECU system, as I believe Dreamscience have full access to it now, so you could remap that to cope with the changes.
So far one of the big problems people have come up against is a manifold to mount the 'bodies, as the port spacings are different from Zetec heads.
07-10-2008, 10:51 PM
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If you're staying N/A you dont need to do any work to the ST170 head (other than cams) the head flows extremely well and doesnt need touching.
The standard Zetec head will flow 200bhp without being touched, and the 170 head is of a better design (by Cosworth) and has bigger valves.
You could stick with the Blackoak ECU system, as I believe Dreamscience have full access to it now, so you could remap that to cope with the changes.
So far one of the big problems people have come up against is a manifold to mount the 'bodies, as the port spacings are different from Zetec heads.
The standard Zetec head will flow 200bhp without being touched, and the 170 head is of a better design (by Cosworth) and has bigger valves.
You could stick with the Blackoak ECU system, as I believe Dreamscience have full access to it now, so you could remap that to cope with the changes.
So far one of the big problems people have come up against is a manifold to mount the 'bodies, as the port spacings are different from Zetec heads.
07-10-2008, 11:01 PM
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The RST will be far cheaper.
Its a shame, as a 170 engine with the right tweeks would be an amazing bit of kit for a track car. I plan to build one up, oneday.
Mega lairy cams
Skim head to raise compression
Throttle bodies
Remapped Blackoak.
I think just this level of spec would produce an absolute screamer, with a very good level of power. Would be great for trackwork.
Oneday....
Its a shame, as a 170 engine with the right tweeks would be an amazing bit of kit for a track car. I plan to build one up, oneday.
Mega lairy cams
Skim head to raise compression
Throttle bodies
Remapped Blackoak.
I think just this level of spec would produce an absolute screamer, with a very good level of power. Would be great for trackwork.
Oneday....
07-10-2008, 11:10 PM
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Blackoak is the standard ECU for the ST170 engine, so you can pick one up pretty cheap I would have thought off eBay etc. The only prob is you need to buy Dreamscience software to be able to remap it (tuner package). I dont know the cost of that, sorry.