Mad Rod back at the dyno today
04-08-2008, 05:48 PM
#122
Well every head lifts to a certain extent, its just a case of how far.
I wasnt in the dyno cell with a half thou feeler gauge trying to slide it under so cant say if that happened or not, but Id imagine its lifted enough to release some clamping pressure.
Yes its long studded on mounty studs I believe.
It wasnt past peak BHP when it spat it, in fact it was only at 7K rpm
It was only very brief dyno pulls, so no time to get a meaningful EGT reading, mark will do those in the car instead.
I wasnt in the dyno cell with a half thou feeler gauge trying to slide it under so cant say if that happened or not, but Id imagine its lifted enough to release some clamping pressure.
Yes its long studded on mounty studs I believe.
It wasnt past peak BHP when it spat it, in fact it was only at 7K rpm
It was only very brief dyno pulls, so no time to get a meaningful EGT reading, mark will do those in the car instead.
Is the head lifting? what headbolts is it on, I guess ts a 10 bolt WRC job but on mountune stud/nut kit?
Why is it spitting its gasket past peak hp/rpm or is it?
Hope you get to the bottom of it so that you can run it at full beans and timing. Nice to see the block is happy at these levels after the turkish one spat the dummy.
At 14 degrees advance on a big cossie engine there is no risk of burning exhaust valves out in short mileage? What sort of EGTs were you seeing?
Good luck on any revisions and thanks for putting it up.
Why is it spitting its gasket past peak hp/rpm or is it?
Hope you get to the bottom of it so that you can run it at full beans and timing. Nice to see the block is happy at these levels after the turkish one spat the dummy.
At 14 degrees advance on a big cossie engine there is no risk of burning exhaust valves out in short mileage? What sort of EGTs were you seeing?
Good luck on any revisions and thanks for putting it up.
04-08-2008, 05:56 PM
#126
As far as im aware, other than the longstuds, nothing has been done to the block itself on Rod's to try and promote head gasket seal.
04-08-2008, 05:56 PM
#127
Cant be argued thats a huge torque figure for such a small engine...cant some one like Reinze or any other big gasket manufacturer make a one off gasket to suit? I know it would be expensive as a one off from such a large company but end of the day it needs something reliable...something that the current off the shelf jobbies dont seem to be specced up to doing.
04-08-2008, 05:58 PM
#129
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What major work do you mean? Or are you just on about the longstud conversion more or less everyone tends to do on relatively high power YB's? That doesnt really seem very major to me, but I guess we all have different impressions of what a basic or major mod is.
As far as im aware, other than the longstuds, nothing has been done to the block itself on Rod's to try and promote head gasket seal.
As far as im aware, other than the longstuds, nothing has been done to the block itself on Rod's to try and promote head gasket seal.
04-08-2008, 05:58 PM
#130
Cant be argued thats a huge torque figure for such a small engine...cant some one like Reinze or any other big gasket manufacturer make a one off gasket to suit? I know it would be expensive as a one off from such a large company but end of the day it needs something reliable...something that the current off the shelf jobbies dont seem to be specced up to doing.
04-08-2008, 06:07 PM
#136
PassionFord Post Whore!!
Yes It looks like a head gasket problem, This time it has spat out the gasket in the front right in the middle of the block,
This time we used much less ignition advance on race fuel and the problem happend later in the rpm band than before,
I will be looking at it tomorrow to see the problem but it looks like the change in head gasket type could have been a backwards step, No going to blame or name the gasket until more checks have been made.
Mark
This time we used much less ignition advance on race fuel and the problem happend later in the rpm band than before,
I will be looking at it tomorrow to see the problem but it looks like the change in head gasket type could have been a backwards step, No going to blame or name the gasket until more checks have been made.
Mark
04-08-2008, 06:09 PM
#137
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and not to costly either.Mark
04-08-2008, 06:12 PM
#138
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A copper gasket would not have the strength unless it was
backed up by something, wire ringing of cyl head and block
One inside the other and a crommolly fire ring stepped into copper on the gasket,
The wrc is never going to cope with these pressures
backed up by something, wire ringing of cyl head and block
One inside the other and a crommolly fire ring stepped into copper on the gasket,
The wrc is never going to cope with these pressures
04-08-2008, 06:12 PM
#140
PassionFord Post Whore!!
The compression is not a problem, I still have plenty of igntion still in it, Going from 7.9-1 to 8.5-1 only reduced the timing by 4gd.
Mark
04-08-2008, 06:14 PM
#141
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sad news mark 
maybe give JG a call and ask how he keeps his head gaskets intact???No shame in asking them.
I take its the boost that is lifting the head slightly causing the failures.
maybe give JG a call and ask how he keeps his head gaskets intact???No shame in asking them.I take its the boost that is lifting the head slightly causing the failures.
04-08-2008, 06:16 PM
#142
It was running no more boost (well within 1 psi) at any point on the new inlet than it was on the old one, it made a lot more power though, and im sure had a similiar percentage rise in cylinder pressures, and thats what has seemingly killed it.
04-08-2008, 06:25 PM
#147
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I thought you needed the high pressure to make the high torque?
If you drop pressure you drop torque?
Im no expert but thats how I understood it.
Shame the gasket let go at 791bhp. Mark will sort it. WRC h/g to be fitted i reckon 
04-08-2008, 06:27 PM
#150
Torque is a measure of the sum of the cylinder pressure multiplied by the leverage of the crank at each point during the cycle effectively.
To simplify it excessively, think of it as a measure of average cylinder pressure.
You can have a lower peak pressure and still a higher average pressure, if you apply the pressure for longer.
04-08-2008, 06:29 PM
#154
Te he to that. Sure chip will take it in his stride (the cheeky comment not the mapping!)
Shame to hear it went pop again.
Really hope you guys find a suitable solution.
Out of interest - would it not have been running more lb/ft on the previous engine when nitrous was used than it is currently on the dyno with no nitro?
RW
Shame to hear it went pop again.
Really hope you guys find a suitable solution.
Out of interest - would it not have been running more lb/ft on the previous engine when nitrous was used than it is currently on the dyno with no nitro?
RW
04-08-2008, 06:30 PM
#156
04-08-2008, 06:30 PM
#157
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Torque is a measure of the sum of the cylinder pressure multiplied by the leverage of the crank at each point during the cycle effectively.
To simplify it excessively, think of it as a measure of average cylinder pressure.
You can have a lower peak pressure and still a higher average pressure, if you apply the pressure for longer.
To simplify it excessively, think of it as a measure of average cylinder pressure.
You can have a lower peak pressure and still a higher average pressure, if you apply the pressure for longer.
04-08-2008, 06:35 PM
#159
Happily retired
The 2 graphs taken today.
The pump map was on the RS500 inlet & so theres more to come from this im sure. This was a conservative map just as Mark wanted.
The first race fuel (109ron) figures saw 758bhp again with boost & ignition on the conservative side, fairly clear that the RS500 inlet had found its limits.
The inlet was changed & saw a 40bhp gain with 30torque on race.
This was the second session of our R&D being done in public & overall im happy with the response, it seems to work, only a few saddo's being negative. With the gains seen today Mark is happy with the engine spec & so sealing the gasket is now the priority, before you ask, yes there will be a part 3 to this saga in the not to distant future, with 750 pump & 800 race the targets which now seem very attainable.
Cheers Rod
If the head gasket is all thats wrong a WRC will be fitted & the car used on the pump fuel map at Fighting Torque. Pump fuel should be 750+ on the new plenum & with our Nitrous adding circa 250bhp we wont be short of Power.
The pump map was on the RS500 inlet & so theres more to come from this im sure. This was a conservative map just as Mark wanted.
The first race fuel (109ron) figures saw 758bhp again with boost & ignition on the conservative side, fairly clear that the RS500 inlet had found its limits.
The inlet was changed & saw a 40bhp gain with 30torque on race.
This was the second session of our R&D being done in public & overall im happy with the response, it seems to work, only a few saddo's being negative. With the gains seen today Mark is happy with the engine spec & so sealing the gasket is now the priority, before you ask, yes there will be a part 3 to this saga in the not to distant future, with 750 pump & 800 race the targets which now seem very attainable.
Cheers Rod
If the head gasket is all thats wrong a WRC will be fitted & the car used on the pump fuel map at Fighting Torque. Pump fuel should be 750+ on the new plenum & with our Nitrous adding circa 250bhp we wont be short of Power.
