Benni

I was out tonight with a friend of mine, and his mate took me out in his car and he turned the ESP off and we was giving it some. The only person I know who leaves it on is, Gary_ST. My brother turns it off, and so does everyone else I can think off. Infact, one one occasion when out with a friend he told me he could of had the car he was racing, only he forgot to turn it off.

I've seen this loads of times, surely it's nice to have such drivers aid incase you run out of talent. Unless you are a racing driver, I don't see the point in having it switched off?

Benni.

Stavros

depends on the car and how good a driver you are.

in the auris we have for example i was about 5 seconds faster over a 1min lap with the traction control off, and another 2sec faster still with the stability control also turned off.

and that thing doesnt spin the wheels by booting it in a straight line even with it all turned off, and it has a very mild and unintrusive driver aid setup compared to most cars.

depends how you drive, and how hard you are capable of driving without killing yourself.

Benni

That Auris seems a nice car; I've seen accidents where people have under-steered into the kerb etc, which leaves me wondering if that would of happened had he left the ESP turned on?

Benni.

rssteve

most just stop the wheels from spinning so obviously cutting the power off.

dojj

iTrader: (3)

leave it on and be safe and secure rather than give it that extra 2 seconds on a race track

we had a fleet of vito's that had a button to turn off the esp
but as soon as you went above 40 mph it would turn back on again
and if you went a bit too sideways into a corner it would kick in again, even thought you've turned it off
but if you diconnected the brake pedal switch it was permanently disengaged but that also fucked everything else, like the traction control and abs as well so we didn't do that

cossie604

iTrader: (2)

Im not 100% sure on this but I think the Vauxhalls at work do something similar to what dojj mentions...unless you hold the button down for a few seconds then its turned off permently. Will check tomorrow, but im almost sure im right.

pa_sjo

Why do they turn it off?

Because they think it hinders their driving, when infact all it does is show up their crap driving for what it is (eg, understeering monsters around roundabouts and the like). 99% of people who think they're a good driver, aren't.

Billabong

Cossie604 - quite a few cars do that - let the user 'turn off' the traction control, and then put it back on automatically (Merc's for one) unless a certain procedure is followed to turn it off fully.

cossie4i+

iTrader: (15)

Well the old mondeo does seem to be a bit quicker with it off

Steve.

cossie604

iTrader: (2)

im stuck working with vauxhalls at present so thats all I know Something for Dojj to try out Monday then either way

danneth

i cant turn it off on my CTR

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

In the M5 its too intelligent and hinders the drive somewhat if you want to make progress and have a little enjoyment on the journey.

As an example, if you give it a handfull of lock and nail it out of a junction, with the intention of a bit of controlled rear end slide, the M5 wont allow it, it only gives you about 100bhp as it KNOWS from steering angle and throttle position what is about to happen, so it stops it before you start. I read somewhere it has g sensors too so it can predict cornering speeds etc, but dont know if thats true or now.

Impressive kit really, but thank god you can turn it off!

Rhys

As Stu said the BMW kit is amazing i got to say, i honestly dont know how you can bin the by losing control with it on. I plant the car doing a 90 degree turn and it turns gives me enough power etc to perform the manouver safly. Amazing bit of kit.


But you need to switch it of if going on track or fancy being a hooligan for a bit. The BMW has two stages of off to. One takes stability control of and the next stage everything is off. Which is cool as in most cars you can take it fully off.

Jim Green

M5 Owners.......Two things to remember

DSC Off
Sport On

Benni

What changes do the sport make?

Benni.

Lee Ivatt

iTrader: (1)

I can see the argument, for example all my cars have air con, but id rather drive with the window open!

Though in the ESP instance, i think all the drivers you have been with sholud invest in one of these! would/could have if if wernt for the esp

Paul Eggleton

My DSC stays on all the time on the road and occassionally I'll push the M button which loosens it a little. I've never had a RWD car before the CSL so I'm certainly not too proud to say I'm not overtly confident I'll catch it if it goes.....

At bedford earlier in the year I ran the whole day with DSC on and the M button pressed. It certainly stops you exiting corners as fast as I think you could, but as a safety net I'm glad it's there. On my last lap I turned it all off and low and behold I spun. Admittedly I think half of it was because I had been merrily flooring it out of corners all day and the DSC was picking it up and then when I turned it all off I just gave it no thought and wellied it resulting in the spin. If i had caught it I would have been blacked flagged for drifting

Benni - sport mode increases throttle response and in the CSL opens the inlet flap earlier

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

On The M5 it decreases the steering ratio too, making it nice and heavy with very little movement needed. Its a nice touch as its very light for manouverability without it on. Its a shame you cant have it WITHOUT the extra throttle responce IMO.

RWD_cossie_wil

iTrader: (9)

It worries me how many people think they can drive, when infact they are relying on the car to keep them out of the hedge....

dojj

iTrader: (3)

in the 360, apparently, with the all the drier aids switched off, it's only a second or so faster round the track with a test driver than it is with everything turned on and some bumble giving it beans, so the driver aids DO work on that

but seeing as it's a whole heap of car and no many peole will be able to afford it, it makes sense to keep the driver aids on so you don't twat it into the scenery

dunketh

Isn't deactivating your cars driver aids a bit like buying a surround sound system then bining all but two of the speakers?

Surely if you wanted something more 'raw' or just plain messy you'd go off and buy a 2.8 capri or something for the weekends.

I bet the safety folk at BMW,etc, are slapping their heads thinking "Why did we ever bother....years of research rendered useless by a simple 'off' button"

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Some of you quite obviously do not understand the difference between enjoying a spirited drive where you can connect with your car and enjoy being in control (or out of it...) and just wanting to get a move on in hazzardous weather and not having to think too much about the cars dynamics.

I expect all the people laughing at the concept are people who dont have the option. LOL

cossie604

iTrader: (2)

Cant BMW reconfigure that at all for you? We can change bits and bobs like that on the Vauxhalls....tbh I set every thing to sports chassis ie steering and throttle response where i can, dunno how the learning drivers get on with it in the Corsa D learner fleet we do but had no complaints

dunketh

You got me there.

I prefer to always think about the cars dynamics. I always enjoy driving, theres never a time when I think fuck it, I wanna be lazy and just go 'autopilot'. Its one of the things I hate about modern cars, you no longer feel one with the machine, aids on or off, now go drive an MG midget and you know what size stones they used in the tarmac from the damage to your spine..

Stavros

if you think that you either have no experience of it or cant drive for shit.

as said earlier, timed sprint event, i was about 5 sec faster over a 1min lap without TC on, and another couple of secs quicker again with the ASC off too.

i must admit, ive never been one for the disabling ABS (tho i expect it really can help some people, just never done anything for me), but the other aids, on a track at very least, it can make a noticable difference.

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Try a 400hp RWD car in the pissing down rain on a dark slippery country road then come back and tell me that the DSC is of no use whatsoever because you would rather think about teh cars dynamics.

Alternative: Would you give the car to your wife and kids to drive the same stretch in the same weather at the same pace? I would. Nicole's a great driver, but its reasurring to know that the car will cancel out almost any driver throttle+steering error that would resut in her leaving teh road in reverse, deliberate or not.

cabrio zo

Ditto what Stu and other say, its just not as 'fun'. I think too many people rely on fancy gizmos to stop the car going out of control, whereas if they didn't have them they would have to rely more on knowing where to stop pushing it, and how to control if they did go to far, again its experience you gain (which you wouldn't if always had ESP IMO) The focus ST was more fun with a bit of wheelspin with the ESP off.
I forgot to turn it off the other weeks in our mates 328i and wondered why nothing happened when I gave it a bit of throttle around a tight bend, I was disappointed

As for rwd etc in the wet (I know no great comparision M5 to Capri!) but when it was wet and horrid I'd drive the Capri according to conditions, a 400bhp M5 in the wet would scare me (I wouldn't take kids in one if I had any)

Z

Remko GT

Because it's fucking scary. Drove a collegue's BMW 330D, chucked it into a corner and it wouldn't do what I wanted it to do. It ran wide, scared me shitless. Then I saw all sorts of lights slickering. Pushed a button and the car much more did what I wanted it to do.
It's even more scary on an Audi A4.

cabrio zo

You need to take a tow test nowadays to tow, if you want to buy a RWD car why not have to take a test to show you can control a slide

Z

dunketh

Why would you have such a spec as a daily driver anyway?
Surely you'd have that as a track/fun car only and having something sensible for the wife/kids etc..
Especially these days with the cost of fuel and whatnot.

Better off having a brutal car with no aids for fun and a shit-simple sturdy runner for a daily vehicle. M5 for track, Mondingo for school run.. that sort of thing.

Anyhow, I will concede that driver aids are generally a good thing and it is a good idea that you can switch them off for fun. However, I still find that concept a little ridiculous giving what I've said above.
Still, if you're hardcore (daft?) enough to drive a 400bhp monster to the shops and back I guess you might as well make the drive as safe as possible.

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Why would I drive a BMW M5 as a daily driver?
Are you really asking that? Its about as good a daily driver as money can buy IMO. It has EVERYTHING a true petrol head wants from a car. Decent looks and image, luxury. masses of torque so you dont have to stir the box if your feeling lazy, extremely high build quality, every toy in the world, and 400bhp/375ftlb torque.


You should really try it mate. Modern safety systems are immense and not at all as obtrusive as you may think, and i assure you, anyone trying to nip out of a roundabout very quickly in the rain in an M5 or similar powered car would probably spin it and end up a nasty accident. FWD cars will just find that they stopped accelerating right in front of on coming traffic as the tyres lit up. Pointless,a nd dangerous, and in these days of modern high torque turbo diesels that exagerate this problem and are ready to catch out the unsuspecting driver not aware of what high torque does to traction, I am all for their existence and defaulting to ON at all times.

You should all remember, marketing men tout BHP as the killer and use it as a selling aid to macho men who want power (Like me). But, as far as traction problems go, Torque is the killer, not BHP and always has been, so Mrs Smith is clueless that her new BMW 330D or VW Golf 150 TD has the ability to leave her stranded with wheels spinning in front of an oncoming bus should she get a bit fruity with the pedal in a rush on a wet busy roundabout. The systems are a necessity to continue along the power path as cars currently are doing.

dojj

iTrader: (3)

did you turn it off for the toyoto challenge cup thing you were doing

Benni

I don't have ESP/DSC or tranction control but I am going to make sure my next car, whatever it may be has such aids. There a great Idea and in my opinion should be standard on all cars of today.

Benni.

Stavros

what did you think i was talking about mate?

only think i found fun with the ESP is to drive the car so hard the ESP cant stop it, and just panics and makes beeping noises at you

after managing that at least twice for 3 laps in a row, i decided i was better off without it, and i was, by a couple of seconds a lap, as it let me oversteer it when it needed it, as 100% grip front and rear is not the fastest way round a track...

Rhys

Stu give up some people just wont be told. lol

I have had a few cars with DSC and the BMW is by far the best. It controls everything if something bad happens. Helps if you hit ice etc, just brilliant bit of kit. We dont all have the surname Schumacer

dojj

iTrader: (3)

did you win then

Stavros

2nd by half a second.

next round this saturday tho, hopefully win...

i can imagine that being a barrel of laughs