RichardPON

Now this doesn't apply to me as I'm a good boy these days, but someone has just suggested to me that if you have points that are "spent" (i.e. outside the 3 year validity date), that you don't have to declare them to the insurance company when they ask for "any motoring convictions in the past 5 years".

He quotes this act:

http://www.lawontheweb.co.uk/rehabact.htm

but I'm not so sure it's quite correct.

Anyone shed any light on this?

Lambchop

iTrader: (1)

hmmmm...

usually you need to send a copy of your license to the ins company so they may well see the points there if you dont declare them. Thay can of course be removed after 4 years but if that time isnt up then they will see!

DanCossie

iTrader: (1)

i would like to know more on this as my 3 i got 3 years ago on 10th Feb 2005. So do i have to declare them?

Fudgey

iTrader: (4)

they stay on your license for 4 years, so next year can be removed.

DanCossie

iTrader: (1)

i thought it was 3 years?? so do they still affect my insurance when i renew next month?

Fudgey

iTrader: (4)

valid for 3 years, on license for 4 years

ins comps ask for last 5 years, but after reading what rich posted, dont tell them

Lambchop

iTrader: (1)

they count towards your 12 for 3 years. THey have to remain on your license for 4 and then you can pay to remove them.

Only the ins company can decide whether your premium is affected or not!!!!

Chip

iTrader: (3)

My understanding, which im fairly sure is correct (maybe drop a PM to Tony @ Greenlight though to ask him to post a definitive answer)

Most insurance companies ask you the question along the lines of

"Have you received any endorsements in the last 5 years?"

Or similar, in which case you have to answer that question honestly.

They could ask you your inside leg measurement too if they wanted to, and you would have the choice of answering it or not insuring with them.

They are entirely within their rights to ask questions that go back longer than the DVLA think is relevant.


If you lie, they can say you arent insured.

kjc300

iTrader: (1)

These days, I don't think 3 points matters fook all to the insurance companies really!! Probably only DD and careless driving etc.

I don't actually think of getting a fixed penalty as being "convicted" anyway!!?

I wonder how many people got sent to australia for driving offences??

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

What Chip said, and I'm pretty sure they would be perfectly in their rights to void the policy if you lied and had an accident...

tsutton

If they ask, just give it to them. Simple like that!

If they found out you didn't give them the full details, they will VOID your insurance, full stop.

So no point questioning this just to save a bit of money on insurance costs!

charlie luciano

iTrader: (3)

Tread very carfully on this subject people you all know what insurance companies are like, anything to get out of a payout, 3 points sp30 shoudn't make that much difference to the premium anyway


Luciano

DanCossie

iTrader: (1)

i have never and would never not declare anythin i aint that stupid....i just wanted to know how long you have to keep sayin i got 3 points on my license for

Littlenewt2067

Points from speeding are not criminal convictions..you have to tell the insurance companies the truth about the 5 year period. If you needed a claim it would void your insurance. They normally ask the date of the conviction (so they can tell if spent) and what the code was...ie SP30, so they know what you got them for. All insurers whether its car, home holiday etc, share info to make sure they dont get stung....people used to insure a car with several insurance companies and then say it had been nicked and then make several different claims....not so easy now!
If you told an insurance company you had just received some points for speeding and then 2 years down the line changed companies, the new company could probably see that you were telling porkies.....be careful!..

Christian and Beccy

iTrader: (14)

With insurance companies looking for ANY way out of paying up, if they want to know accidents/claims/convictions within 5 years, that's what I will tell them.

It's in YOUR best interest to leave as few grey area's as possible.

RichardPON

I agree with you Chip, and I would always delare.

I just want to know if the act I posted the link to applies, as it would suggest that you don't have to declare.

As I said, this doesn't apply to me, but I'm simply after the correct answer.

C4llyT

Well, if the points are valid or not is not the issue.
They're asking a question which needs to be answered honestly, and choose this period to be 5 years.
They could make it ten years if they like, they want to know what they want to know.

fish99

I think that you shouldnt have to declare them if they are a spent conviction. The thing I think you could techinically get done for if you fail to declare them is obtaining a pecunicary advantage,

C4llyT

Pecuniary you mean?

Simple fact is you do have to declare them, they want to know, and you have to answer honestly, thus this is what they quote on.
As you state, would result in a pecuniary advantage.

3rd party would be covered of course, and it's not always black and white with insurance.
If you've undeclared engine mods and it gets nicked, these mods don't attribute to the car being nicked, so will be paid out - is how I understand it.
Obviously not a good idea to give them ways of trying to get out of paying of course.

RichardPON

I wasn't asking what the correct way to behave was, or the morally accurate response.

I wanted to know what the legal requirements were.

C4llyT

What's the law got to do with this?
It is the insurance company's policy to require knowledge of convictions in the last 5 years, that's all there is to it.

I was not trying to instruct you in how to behave, simply expanding on my answer as to their requirements.

Try and help, and you reply like a cunt, there's really no need for wording your reply like that.

For what it's worth, is a stupid question to start with, any fucker with half a brain should be able to rationalise that how long the conviction is on your licence, and valid for, is irrelevent.

tabetha

You don't have to LEGALLY declare a spent conviction, but the insurer does not have to insure you either, simple, you can refuse if you want, but if they STILL insure you it is thier decision.
An insurer is at liberty to ask any question he wants, even how fit our bird is, but you do not have to answer, obviously any decision they make is based on the information given so will likely decline.
All insurers are linked to DVLA, they have a ssperate phone number just for this, but this only applies to uk insurers.
It is FREE to get points taken off, just a bit NAUGHTY, if points are over four years old just send license off for CHANGE OF ADDRESS, to your mates, when it is processed they have to take off any over four years old, as soon as your license arrives and you mate gives it to you, re register back at your original address, it works every time!!
tabetha

RichardPON

How did I reply like a cunt?

It's not my fault if you can't read what I wrote.

As I said, it doesn't apply to me, and simply wanted some clarification on the law.

How does the law apply? Well if you decide that you don't want to declare your points as someone I know has done, obviously you have breached the terms of your contract with the insurance company.

Now in the event of an accident, one would assume you were uninsured, and knowingly so, so I wanted to know the implications and whether you would be subject to criminal prosecution as and when a claim might be made. (considering not all insurance companies require a copy of your licence at the time you take a policy).

Obviously my internation was that you can't be prejudiced against if you are being asked to provide information that the law doesn't require you to, much in the same way that employment law now doesn't need to recognise age as a factor of criteria for employment (although I obviously respect the differences).

Personally, I though it was quite a valid question.

C4llyT

Won't fall out over it

As for the law angle, largely falls to whether your policy remains valid.
Not declaring the points does not contribute to a claim, it cannot cause you to crash, or car to be stolen, so shouldn't affect a claim.
Third party is always honoured I believe, so you meet the minimum requirement for using the car on the highway.
This is information I've gathered from real life events, so I can't say with 100% certainty not working in insurance.

Is a much more valid question now you've expanded on it

Bullett

iTrader: (2)

i personally declare the lot.the points and any mods to the cr.nowdays its far to easy for them to say no.

focusv8

The above law gives no advantage to ordinary points, the spent time is 5 years, same as insurance co. are asking for.
It looks to be an advantage for a Serious motoring conviction, like drink / drug driving, which stays on a licence for over 5 years.

.

SassyRS

Im a good girl and have no points but if i did I would declare them I would worry to much otherwise, plus im a crap liar!

Madbradz

On the R6 when I was getting Quotes it was actually Ł11 cheaper with 3x points.... God knows how!!

My van (AstraVan) that I do 50k a year in the insurance went up Ł65.....

Now if I had an accident and told them about the points I would get a nice hire van, Mine repaired/replaced....

If I didn’t tell them about the points... I would save Ł65! and have a van that’s scrap value, I can do nothing with and have to buy another van and any other liability....

It’s a stupid risk!! For Ł65 in my case!

Chris Honeywell

Well almost 10 years ago i got done for speeding on a motorbike lost my licence and was done for Dangerous driving

Nowi needed the exact date of my conviction so i rang the DVLA and asked them what the date was..

They could not tell me, according to them they don't keep DD convictions on there records for more than 7 years
iirc it was on my licence for 5 years

And does anyone know how the insurace company share there info
because if they share it all to catch out people who do not disclose convictions etc, why can't they share no claims discount proof as well to save us all a load of grief with all the no claims proof letters we need etc

Shings

When I was younger if the points were over 3 years and outside the time for totting up I would never declare them, and when I sent my licence off no one ever moaned.

That was with several insurance companies.

Does that help.

C4llyT

How many claims against you did you have?

900ss

I got told the same when I asked about things gone by.
Sod it, if they dont know then i deffo don't

The Rapid 1

Not true
The way the insurance companies view it is, you have made mods to a car which makes it more tempting to a thief to steal

In the same way as if you have a non fault claim on your license, ie you claimed on someone elses insurance because THEY caused accident/damage whatever, the way the insurance company view that is that you drive/keep/park whatever in areas where you/the car is at a risk FACT, my sis tried it on a quote once and then queered it and that what she got told !

The general comments here are all right to MY UNDERSTANDING, ie legally you dont need to tell them, BUT THEY dont have to cover you either, THEY set the rules that you need to follow if you want THEM to supply you a service, you drcide not to follow the rules to their "game", then they can call game over whenever they want .

Steve

Tony @ Greenlight

Hi Guys,

This one looks like a bit of an epic, so i'll do my best to advise you based upon our experience within the industry.

Insurance is based upon uppermost good faith, a principle which relies upon your declaration of all material information requested by the Insurer in question in a truthful manner.

The offer (quotation) made to you by the Insurer will be based wholly upon the details provided when making the application.

Our experience of Insurers in general is that they will request details within either a 3 year or 5 year period for convictions with points or up to 11 years for convictions such as DR offences that have a ban attached.

Your best best is to read the applications thoroughly and if you're not sure then disclose anyway, as material information for convictions that are outside of their rating criteria (ie usually 3/5 years) is unlikely to effect the terms quoted by most Underwriters.

Integrity is important to Insurers and non-disclosure is never received well by most Underwriters.

The danger with non-disclosure is that if you havent declared requested information that would have influenced the particular Underwriter/Insurer's acceptance of you as a risk, they could potentially prove that had they been made aware of the ommitted information they would not have offered you policy cover in the first place and thus would be within their rights to repudiate a claim presented under the policy.

Taking this a step further, in practice if this occurred they would firstly not indemnify for your vehicle and in cases where you had caused damage/injury to other parties they would be able to either refuse to pay for the damage caused or would pay and then seek recovery from you using their 'right of recovery' in these circumstances.

From a Greenlight angle, our advice to you would be to declare all requested detail and let us get on with the job of sourcing cover for you.

We will always overtly advise you as to your own individual case/detail wherever you feel you need assistance or further specific advice.

Kind regards

Tony

focuschivvy

in my eyes insurance companys dont want you not to declare

think about it, if you dont declare, you pay them a hell of a lot of money for your insurance, you crash, its void.....theyve just made a load of money out of you

tsutton

Don't be silly. They have to follow the FSA policy. They wouldn't want to risk it otherwise they will lose business!