Mapping a Big turbo, BIG power cosworth for driveability..
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Can ti be done? had a discussion today with a guy who rekons big power turbo cars are ALL undrivable. I cant see this being the case tho..
Surely with modern systems like omex and with anti-lag systems a decetn 500-600bhp cossie can still be driveable?
Carl
Surely with modern systems like omex and with anti-lag systems a decetn 500-600bhp cossie can still be driveable?
Carl
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What size turbo is on the 6.75 litre Bentley thing?
Local garage building a YB had that stuck on it, reckoned boost would be in nice and low.
Why my mates wasn't on standard cossie they'd serviced I don't know...
Local garage building a YB had that stuck on it, reckoned boost would be in nice and low.
Why my mates wasn't on standard cossie they'd serviced I don't know...
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Originally Posted by martin-reyland
Originally Posted by xr2i-carl
ok chip what about 700+bhp cosworths, can they be driveable?
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Hi Martin, when does your boost come in?
do you have a graph to post up?!
Carl
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Originally Posted by martin-reyland
Originally Posted by xr2i-carl
ok chip what about 700+bhp cosworths, can they be driveable?
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I would say your car isnt what most people woudl consider road driveable, mainly for reasons of the clutch and gearbox, but obviously you could put it on a T56 or something to get round that.
whats it like for economy?
(NOT trying to be clever, I suspect the answer will actually be a lot HIGHER than most people think)
#10
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What do you mean by undrivable?
A BIG bhp engine will never produce boost as early as one fitted with a T3, but in terms of perfect road manners, YES a big bhp engine can drive perfectly. (i.e. like a std engine does)
The biggest issue with big bhp engines is that they are usually later coming on boost and hence have to be revved harder to extract their power, but that can hardly be called undrivable.
Remember a lairy turbo engine is actually quite a mild engine once the turbo is removed from the equation and unlike a wildly tuned N/A will always be civilised as a road car. (i.e. C/R, cams and cam timing will not be outrageous as you would find on a wild N/A engine)
A BIG bhp engine will never produce boost as early as one fitted with a T3, but in terms of perfect road manners, YES a big bhp engine can drive perfectly. (i.e. like a std engine does)
The biggest issue with big bhp engines is that they are usually later coming on boost and hence have to be revved harder to extract their power, but that can hardly be called undrivable.
Remember a lairy turbo engine is actually quite a mild engine once the turbo is removed from the equation and unlike a wildly tuned N/A will always be civilised as a road car. (i.e. C/R, cams and cam timing will not be outrageous as you would find on a wild N/A engine)
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Originally Posted by Kevin Sharp
Originally Posted by xr2i-carl
Cally the bentley 6.75 litre push rod engine has two turbos. Big fuckers...
![Pthbbbb](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/smile045.gif)
soooo many questions....bored?...school holidays is it?
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I was talking about the arnage T later ones.. Early ones had a single t4!!
later ones had 2 x t3!
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Originally Posted by xr2i-carl
ok chip what about 700+bhp cosworths, can they be driveable?
Cally the bentley 6.75 litre push rod engine has two turbos. Big fuckers...
Cally the bentley 6.75 litre push rod engine has two turbos. Big fuckers...
#17
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I have 550 BHP with what could be called lairy cams, silly big injectors and an old truck turbo yet it comes on boost nearly as well as a T3 and has an awesome power band.
Proves it can be done with a little work.
Proves it can be done with a little work.
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On the old spec it made 90 bhp at 3k.
New spec it makes 170 bhp at 3k, kinda shows the difference![Big Grin](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif)
these figs are at the wheels and ti might be more bit I will have to check
New spec it makes 170 bhp at 3k, kinda shows the difference
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these figs are at the wheels and ti might be more bit I will have to check
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Originally Posted by xr2i-carl
Originally Posted by Kevin Sharp
Originally Posted by xr2i-carl
Cally the bentley 6.75 litre push rod engine has two turbos. Big fuckers...
![Pthbbbb](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/smile045.gif)
soooo many questions....bored?...school holidays is it?
![Raz](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/tongue.gif)
![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
I was talking about the arnage T later ones.. Early ones had a single t4!!
later ones had 2 x t3!
![Pthbbbb](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/smile045.gif)
#26
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Of course they can. Your mates is ill informed.
Interestingly, and anyone who has had a live map by me will confirm this as i usually make a point of it during the demonstration, One of the tests i do when mapping is almost finalised on an averagely high powered YB such as one modified with 83lb Siemens, Ported head, sensible inlet cam, T4 or GT30 turbo (Or of course anything lower powered) is to tune the calibration enough to ensure that 5th gear can be selected at 30mph and then driven round town or accelerated from there to its rev limiter with no hesitations or sudden changes in power delivery.
If it cant, i wont give it you back until it can, even if that means delaying the return of your car.
Edited to add, this is all with its 20yr old Ecu of course. Results vary on aftermarket as some arent half as good as the OE one but thats no fault of the mapper.
Interestingly, and anyone who has had a live map by me will confirm this as i usually make a point of it during the demonstration, One of the tests i do when mapping is almost finalised on an averagely high powered YB such as one modified with 83lb Siemens, Ported head, sensible inlet cam, T4 or GT30 turbo (Or of course anything lower powered) is to tune the calibration enough to ensure that 5th gear can be selected at 30mph and then driven round town or accelerated from there to its rev limiter with no hesitations or sudden changes in power delivery.
If it cant, i wont give it you back until it can, even if that means delaying the return of your car.
Edited to add, this is all with its 20yr old Ecu of course. Results vary on aftermarket as some arent half as good as the OE one but thats no fault of the mapper.
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Originally Posted by Kevin Sharp
Originally Posted by xr2i-carl
Originally Posted by Kevin Sharp
Originally Posted by xr2i-carl
Cally the bentley 6.75 litre push rod engine has two turbos. Big fuckers...
![Pthbbbb](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/smile045.gif)
soooo many questions....bored?...school holidays is it?
![Raz](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/tongue.gif)
![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
I was talking about the arnage T later ones.. Early ones had a single t4!!
later ones had 2 x t3!
![Pthbbbb](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/smile045.gif)
(skool boi mode on) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bentley_Arnage check out this link, it explains everything
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(skool boy mode off)
Carl
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#30
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Originally Posted by col cos1
Originally Posted by rapidcossie
Originally Posted by col cos1
does alan have to tamper with it aswell or is it a straight fit as is ![Top](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/smile011.gif)
![Top](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/smile011.gif)
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[quote="Stu @ M Developments"] is to tune the calibration enough to ensure that 5th gear can be selected at 30mph and then driven round town
.............ohh the noise it makes in a shitty 4x4 box...............sorry i'd have to drop a few cogs.............
.............ohh the noise it makes in a shitty 4x4 box...............sorry i'd have to drop a few cogs.............
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Originally Posted by Kevin Sharp
Originally Posted by xr2i-carl
Cally the bentley 6.75 litre push rod engine has two turbos. Big fuckers...
![Pthbbbb](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/smile045.gif)
soooo many questions....bored?...school holidays is it?
![Raz](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/tongue.gif)
![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
#34
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A BIG bhp engine will never produce boost as early as one fitted with a T3, but in terms of perfect road manners, YES a big bhp engine can drive perfectly. (i.e. like a std engine does)
![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
![Top](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/smile011.gif)
even with rods last engine ( the 206mph one ) im sure he used to drive it to and from work
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#35
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Originally Posted by Stu @ M Developments
is to tune the calibration enough to ensure that 5th gear can be selected at 30mph and then driven round town
.............ohh the noise it makes in a shitty 4x4 box...............sorry i'd have to drop a few cogs.............
![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
.............ohh the noise it makes in a shitty 4x4 box...............sorry i'd have to drop a few cogs.............
![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
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Originally Posted by mechanic28
ask 4x4ste or cossierich about how the 530 bhp cossie is to drive that stu mapped
![Big Grin](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_mrgreen.gif)
And for town driving really it was ultra drivable as you only used 1st gear up to 70mph
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![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
That was T4 bd16 and bd14, 27 / 25 mm ports iirc and 7/2-1 comp.
However i feel clutches is more where you would want to look at as a std cable clutch is the biggest downfall not the engine power.
Steve
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Edited to say : on L8 too
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#37
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Originally Posted by C4llyT
I'm sure with todays technology, and enough money, you could make a 1000bhp as drivable as a Focus.
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Originally Posted by Stu @ M Developments
Originally Posted by Stu @ M Developments
is to tune the calibration enough to ensure that 5th gear can be selected at 30mph and then driven round town
.............ohh the noise it makes in a shitty 4x4 box...............sorry i'd have to drop a few cogs.............
![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
.............ohh the noise it makes in a shitty 4x4 box...............sorry i'd have to drop a few cogs.............
![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
![Wall](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/wall.gif)
![Wall](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/wall.gif)
![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
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Originally Posted by Kevin Sharp
Originally Posted by xr2i-carl
Cally the bentley 6.75 litre push rod engine has two turbos. Big fuckers...
![Pthbbbb](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/smile045.gif)
soooo many questions....bored?...school holidays is it?
![Raz](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/tongue.gif)
![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
![Pthbbbb](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/smile045.gif)
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Originally Posted by Crowder
Originally Posted by Kevin Sharp
Originally Posted by xr2i-carl
Cally the bentley 6.75 litre push rod engine has two turbos. Big fuckers...
![Pthbbbb](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/smile045.gif)
soooo many questions....bored?...school holidays is it?
![Raz](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/tongue.gif)
![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
![Pthbbbb](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/smile045.gif)
![Pthbbbb](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/smile045.gif)
I am just interested as i always have been about these engines.