Garage19

Yes that is the tricky bit - biggest change of airflow fuel requirements in shortest time frame. When i mapped my mates TB'd bmw turbo this is also where we spent a lot of time. I ended up bunching some load sites up this point which gave me much finer control.

I have allowed a day in 2009 for a trip to brunters.

Fudgey

iTrader: (4)

crap pic stolen off ebay, but you get the idea about the plate

Fudgey

iTrader: (4)

cheeky bastard

give us a month or 4

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Mega squirt has an "alpha N" system in it that works relatively well for multimap, but S8 doesnt, so will probably be worse than the MS one doug did on the S14 engine.

Fudgey

iTrader: (4)

arse

Simon, if your reading this, get the keyboard out and start typing some new code

Garage19

TBs + S8 might not be the ideal no expense spared solution but seeing as:

a) Dan will not be trying (nor probably has the skill, like most of us) to eek out every last bit of possible traction out of those rear tyres as he laps a race track in top flight motorsport

b)Is more likely to be racing barry boys round his local trading estate or ragging it uncontrollably round a stoney airfield.

... I'm sure we can get it to work and drive to a very acceptable level.

One problem with linking Tbs up to one map sensor is that you get a pulsing effect but with carefull use of chambers, controlling the size of orifices and sometimes using a form of damping it is possible to get a reasonable map signal.

Garage19

......anyway, worst comes to worst we can wire the TBs open and fit a single one

Fudgey

iTrader: (4)

doug, the map take off will be right next to the head, or does that not affect anything?

Fudgey

iTrader: (4)

thats plan B as the springs have already been removed to see if that will work, and it will

Garage19

Not really as long as it is behind the tbs (which it needs to be to see vacum in a speed density set up) you will get a ceratin amount of pulsing at lower throttle openings.

Alg1k

iTrader: (2)

yes been there done that
Ohh the joys of it all
Thing is the vacume changes at different loads and revs and you get very sporadic readings,
I wish you luck and hope to see an update before 2009

Fudgey

iTrader: (4)

cool, you shound like you know what your on about, so ill leave that bit to you

Martin-Hadland

iTrader: (2)

Dan, If I were you I would go for a single throttle .... less complicated and no mapping issues, oh and cheaper!!

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Exactly what I said, but the issue that he has is the TBs were given to him to test essentially, so he needs to do that, lol



(plus he thinks it sounds impressive and makes him more like you, everyone wants to be you martin )

Charlie Chalk

iTrader: (1)

Single or not, This is still one of the best looking manifolds going

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Its not just good looking, the "side fed" nature of it with the tapered feed is superb for distribution and great for flow.

Proper bit of kit

Charlie Chalk

iTrader: (1)

Chip-3Door

Do you mean these slits behind the trumpets??

Chip

iTrader: (3)

yes mate, well more the shape of the inlet feed as a hole than just the slits specifically.

GARETH T

i love the mis manifold

Charlie Chalk

iTrader: (1)

When I had Dave Moss's to clean up I took some pics, I would have like to have taken more now though...

AustenW

This is my set up

Make sure your trumpets are short and strong as they tend to colapse under boost

Si B

iTrader: (59)

Thanks Chip, sure we can sort something for Dan. We have a different design to maybe try on Dan's motor - going to have to take a closer look at the engine and see if we can do it space wise.

Nowt wrong with the typical Cossie plenums, just with an engine like this, a bit of custom fabrication should be right up Phill's street!

Will PM you tomorrow Dan, soon as I've talked to Phill some more. Where's the car at the mo?

Si

Fudgey

iTrader: (4)

Cheers all

Austin, where did you get your trumpets from?

Titan are going to exchange the 50mm ones for their 35mm ones, i can get bits welded on to strengthen them

Si, the car is in Bath, so not tooo far from you. if you want to come and have a look anytime, let me know - or i can get some more pic, but with a decent camera lol

cheers mate

stuart collins

iTrader: (7)

Had 40mm trumoets inside 95mm plenum

Fudgey

iTrader: (4)

sweet, did you make that yourself mate?

Fudgey

iTrader: (4)

lil update, just got these sent through from titan, they are their 35mm ones and look like the ones martin put pics up of, and they are quite thick, about 2mm so shouldnt collapse under boost





what you reckon? they ok?

Charlie Chalk

iTrader: (1)

Look ok to me, But im no expert...


What plenum you going for, full on custom I assume?

Fudgey

iTrader: (4)

yes mate, hopefully SiB and Phil 2400 can sort me something

Charlie Chalk

iTrader: (1)

I await pics

Chip

iTrader: (3)

They should be fine dan.

I am surprised to hear that collapsing under boost is an issue though as they have boost inside and outside them at the same time, so shouldnt suffer any particuarly large net force from the boost.

Garage19

Thats what i said to Austen... pressure acts equally on all surfaces within the plenum.


But he assures me he had some break up and rattle around in a plenum due to high boost.

I can't see it my self and think it must of been due to vibration/ fatigue/poor fixing.

I have run 45 style trumpets in two plenums to date with no probs.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Only way at all I can think that boost would effect them is if they were very poorly made carbon or fibreglass ones and they had small pockets of trapped air inside them.

Garage19

True...

the ones we were discussing were the spun ally ones though.

How fast do you think the air speed through the plenum is?

Big Will_

I gathered that Mike when i saw you eyeing up our Yellow evo at Time Attack Silverstone a few weeks ago

Was going to pop over for a chat but didn't get a minute spare

Chip

iTrader: (3)

For what volume of air at what density in what size plenum, and measured where in the plenum as it will vary greatly, and at what rpm on what duration cams and and and and

I wouldnt even bother trying to guess beyond maybe working out an average, as its just not something I think you can make a guess at, well certainly not something im qualified to do with any degree of accuracy, you need to measure it really.

Are you thinking they basically got "torn apart by the wind" effectivly?

Garage19

That was what i was thinking. I'm not convinced that is a problem and just wanted to dispell it.

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

I was just figuring out what I could disconnect to slow it down, so Dan stood a chance in the Sierra .

Life is in the detail - that car is a credit to Clive and the team at RC and IMO, shows ND how it should be done .

Big Will_

OUR lives are in the detail

There were so many nights spent working till the early hours on that car...

Makes it all worthwhile when we get feedback like that though and as you say - Clive was the man with the ideas

P.S - What on earth was Dan doing that morning - i saw a blowtorch and a lot of smoke going on in the garage

scruffythefirst

If there is no pressure differential between the inside of the plenum and the throats of the throttle bodies, how is there any flow?

Chip

iTrader: (3)

You are of course correct as during the intake stroke there is a pressure drop in that runner.

We all know this, there isnt any point arguing it really, but the differential is still pretty marginal, there wont ever be more than a couple of psi difference (if that) between the inside of the trumpet and the rest of the plenum