Turbocabbie

does anyone know who sells motorsport air injectors im looking for a twin setup and all I can find is single injector setups

Billabong

Harvey @ SCS, Ahmed Bayjoo, Mike R

Si B

iTrader: (59)

Not having a dig, or anything really, just curious....


Why do you want a twin set up over a single set?

Si

pollocks

yeah i was going to say isn't single the newer more reliable setup ?

JonnyBravo

Do they even still make the twin setup ? I thought it was a wrc item.

There is plenty of single air injectors available these days though

ECU Monitor Enthusiast

iTrader: (1)

Twin air injectors are used by people who are only concerned with how it
looks or the bling factor or those who have ahmed brown noses

All IMO of course.

Billabong

Just as well your opinion doesn't count for much on here Simon, imo of course

And you're wrong anyway, in my case

JonnyBravo

Funny that as isn't Martoon using the twin setup

ECU Monitor Enthusiast

iTrader: (1)

Billabong,

How much did Ahmed Gibbs charge for yours


Nothing wrong with a new single injector design.
Proper boost controller even better (and cheaper )

JonnyBravo

Some would dissagree with that

Turbocabbie

out of curiousity can anybody who has stated that the single is better explain why this is the case or why I would want the single over the twin ?

ECU Monitor Enthusiast

iTrader: (1)

JonnyBravo,

LOL, MY opinion is based on practical experience with all types of
electronic boost control and obviously personal preference as I said,
it was my opinion.

As you seem to think otherwise to me, lets have your explanation so I
can disagree

ECU Monitor Enthusiast

iTrader: (1)

UnseenMenace,

A single is available to buy widley, cheaper, less parts to fail, uses less
electrical power as injectors are thirsty things !

Billabong

Simon, my drive in-drive out price was extremely good, and I'm happy to let Harvey fit what he sees as fit for the job

IIRC, the single injector only came about due to people either not knowing what gas injector to use or because of supply issues with said injector.

I answered the chap's question so why do you have to pollute the thread with your embittered drivel? If he'd asked for the single air injector, I'd have pointed him in Stu or DazC's direction

ECU Monitor Enthusiast

iTrader: (1)

Billabong,

WTF, where did that come from LOL

My comment was a bit of my personal opinion and a bit of banter.
And if you re read - Single injectors were mentioned way before by a
few people before I brought it up...

Or are you saying, that only your opinion counts

Lighten up

JonnyBravo

Probably best I dont explain as I'll make a complete fool out of myself

Its a Subaru tuner that has been playing with them as I was talking to one of his customers about my Yb and whilst waiting for him to start slagging air injectors off like normal he said how good the results were he was getting using them on his own car.

Ofcourse you should know and possibly you like many understand why boost controllers are better than air injectors but everyone has a different way of doing things and as we know not everyone agrees with everything you do

Billabong

I wasn't offering an opinion in my first post, just the information the guy asked for

Maybe you should tell the guy he may need to have his boost curve re-calibrated if he uses the single type, IF he's already had a map that utilises the twin type?

ECU Monitor Enthusiast

iTrader: (1)

JonnyBravo,

I never said they didnt do the job well.

There are newer, cheaper and better things out there that are more available.

Some people are stuck in the past though

Billabong

Tried & tested works for me

Stavros

Not so sure about stuck in the past really.

I noticed the DCY Evo track car that was on the cover on one of the Jap mags the other day is running T6 and twin air inj.

ECU Monitor Enthusiast

iTrader: (1)

Bill,

Ok, as you threw in boost curves, I will raise you to TFC

JonnyBravo

Billabong

What are we playing, Top Trumps?

I don't claim to know everything feel free to enlighten me if you like (especially if it help The menace to make an informed decision).

JonnyBravo

I'll leave you two to get a room and sort out your boost curve issues

ECU Monitor Enthusiast

iTrader: (1)

Billabong,

I am fully aware you are clued up and have never considered you ignorant.

May be miss informed (that was a joke)

Less parts are always better for reliability and cost.

I am sure if you have them on your car and are happy with there
performance then I am pleased for you. I never said they didnt do the job.

Just think how much of the cost of them went towards Mr Gibbs Porsche (or his tax bill)
(another lame joke I know)

Turbocabbie

remind me never to let you fit brakes to my car


Thanks for the advice and contacts everyone much appreciated

Billabong

I feel cheated now , I was expecting an essay about TFC & boost control

If my extreme value for money bill helped pay for one of Harvey's two AMG Merc's then I'm happy to have contributed in a small way - I don't expect people to work for nothing

Wasn't aware he'd bought another Porker , I'll have to make up an excuse to go and see him now as he did his job so well, I only have to visit them for servicing

Apologies to UnseenMenace for hijacking your thread

Turbocabbie

I would be well up for a essay on that, bit of knowledge would be good

Rippers

WRC's use four air injectors don't they? 2xtwins

Billabong

Grp A cars used to double up on vital stuff (on a redundancy basis) in case something fails. e.g. 2 MAP sensors etc. so expect WRC do the same where allowed?

GARETH T

they control the pressure on both sides of the actuator

phase and anti-phase injectors

Billabong

cheers G

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Only difference between the old twins and my singles is the cost.

Well, if you ignore the fact mine are lighter, smaller, easier to mount and less likely to fail. Apart from that, the only difference is teh price.

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

oops, i forgot that they also consume less juice from a a power circuit which, on most cosworths, is allready threatening to take the engine out due to pathetically low voltages to pumps, injectors and ecus...

bigchez

what are air injectors for? i realise for injecting air, but for what purpose?

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Taken from a topic i wrote in the technical essays room:


What Are Air Injectors?
Air injectors, are, as they sound, a set of injectors that inject air instead of fuel. They are commonly used to control the boost pressure output by a turbocharger.

What do they look like?
There are various types available, but the most common ones are as follows.

There are however many types available nowadays, including ones that only run a single injector.

How do they work?
The air injectors have an input to the top of them from the turbocharger and an output on the bottom to the wastegate. The injectors are wired to the ecu so they can be controlled.

The ecu air injector map is mapped against boost, rpm and air temperature. The injectors initially stay closed, keeping the wastegate closed too, encouraging the turbo to spin to speed as fast as possible. When the desired turbocharger pressure is aquired during mapping, the injectors are pulsed so that they open at that point, allowing air to flow to the wastegate. This of course opens the gate, bypassing some exhaust gas from the turbine wheel, slowing the compressor and leveling or dropping the boost pressure depending entirely of course on how much air we allow through. The beauty of this system is we can use a relatively weak actuator to achieve very large boost levels and we can accurately program boost curves into the system.

Any downsides?
Yes, if the injectors fail, due to the “Bleed On” configuration, the turbo will run whatever boost it can until something either stops it or something fails due to the fact we have blocked the pipe to the actuator.

bigchez

Nice one! Seen them before on what seem like very highly specc'd cars, but didn't really know what they did! Thanks Stu.

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Your very welcome pal.

scruffythefirst

Is there any reason why you couldn't use air injectors in the same way as an amal valve with injectors bleeding out air (controlled by the ecu) from the feed to the actuator, rather than feeding air to the actuator? This would mean the system failed safe, but potentially allow more control than an amal valve (as the range of flow would be greater)?

GARETH T

no reason why you cant,,,, and ive tried it

but the reason for using air to air boost control is that the actuator doesnt see any pressure untill you want it, this stops the wastegate creeping open