costina

iTrader: (1)

Whats better for power torque acc etc

I,ve a small ish one (no jokes please )

Whats everyones views i don't think mine flows enough it is a 150mm dia ram air

Micky The Finn

whats better for torque???


a standard airbox with panel filter,significantly better,

cone filters are for boy racers.

Stu.H

You can just see mine here on my s2




BIGGER is BETTER

Rick

Was looking at the New Catrham, 2.0L duratec NA 210hp, that uses a cone.

zippyobrien

iTrader: (2)

jap ones are usually quite small, and we all no there further ahead than us loool,

and they have thos funny funnel and swirly bits on the end of the cone

to 'swirl the air;
is that bollocks or true ?

M.A.D.RST

Standard cosworth airbox Paul

Unless of course you just want the noise like my old escos

SapphyMike

Is that a technical term?

Stavros

bigger is better, its purely a restriction thing,

and on the ROAD (not rollers), esp on turbo cars, cones dont make much higer charge temps than boxes.

and no restriction is more important than charge temps (take note big power oweners with them tiny WRC air boxes!).

utter and complete horse shite.

they are not further ahead of us at all, not by a long shot.

maybe a few years ago, but not anymore.

and their small filters are SHIT.

they all use metal inlet pipes as the filters are SO restrictive at decent power a rubber one will be sucked shut.

hence why they remove their filters for dragging and racing.

i know its a fact as ive seen a 600bhp Saff racer on the RR with the biggest blitz cone they do, and the rubber hose sucked shut and stalled as it came on big boost.
re-fitted the biggest K+N one and it was perfectly fine again.

banhambuilt

i use apexi filters

http://mkiv.com/techarticles/filters_test/2/

costina

iTrader: (1)

Yeah nick could poss go back to std airbox

zippyobrien

iTrader: (2)

ive always used apexi filters,

dont like the blitz or hks ones as ive seen a turbo car suck the foam out of the filter.

what about piper cross foam filters then ???

should you use gauze or foam???

BigErn

Mine runs a huge foam Ramair filter.

Rick

K&N have been doing it for decades, they flow and they last - why use anything else?

pete mcrash

iTrader: (1)

just gone back to an air box..................the car is smoother....but cant FEEL any difference...........i do miss the "noise" though

SapphyMike

i've never liked K&N

vikingboy

very interesting - but why?

Micky The Finn

ford spent a little bit more than K+N developing the airbox though!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SapphyMike

I've often found them to be over priced and not that good..

i guess its also down to personal preference..

stevieturbo

And a lot of the design, is dictated by the space it has to fit in, not to do with airflow ability.


K&N's work...doesnt matter if some people dont like them, they still work.

and with a forced induction car, you really dont need a huge filter.

K&N rate their filters at something like 1.8x the n/a rating for FI.

So a 500 n/a bhp filter will cope with 900bhp without much difficulty.

Id be more concerned with a reliable filter, that actually filters. Most of the big names will be reasonably good in terms of performance.

or std airbox modified for a little easier airflow.

foreigneRS

and noise levels, as the cosworth was a road car. imo, best is a k&n panel element in an airbox

costina

iTrader: (1)

Nick i think this is the way to go std airbox with K&N
Just need a new pipe now

Rod-Tarry

Being older I have a bigger one

M.A.D.RST

Same as me then Paul

foreigneRS

the type of thing that rod has is even better than the airbox with k&n panel as he has the best of both worlds - a cone inside a box that does not suck in hot air

Barry_GTi

Yeah ok then Tell that to Rod Tarry, Martin Hadland etc etc, sure they all have cones filters in their bays............

SPOT ON!! I tried to have this discussion with Alan at AVA years ago, when he tried to tell me cone filters were the worst invention ever..... simply wouldn't listen

I have always said that on the ROAD with some good cold air ducting an cone filter is MUCH better. In fact I ran a temp probe in one of my cars(NA not boosted) and yes sitting in a traffic jam it was hot, but about 30 seconds after moving again the temps dropped. Always ran about 5-7degrees above an ambient temp probe sitting out at front bumper and I am sure the increased flow was worth that.

foreigneRS

yes, but they have a heat shield

Barry_GTi

I agree but a good direct air feed wouldn't be much different.

When I was about 18 I actually sealed a Pipercross cone filter in an alloy box and ran 2 HUGE air hoses to it from the front grill, now that worked REALLY well, but for the effort...... well I never built another hahaha..... I just ran the air feeds towards the filter.

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Yes, I agree that on the ROAD, you won't have problems with a cone filter and high temps with OCCASIONAL squirts of the throttle. But transfer that to track conditions where you're on the throttle CONSTANTLY, and you're talking a WHOLE different kettle of tuna . The engine bay then EASILY goes over 70°C, and so the filter is sucking in that hot air.

Rod understands these things FULLY, and the ONLY reason he has HAD to go to that filter is that the standard airbox becomes restrictive after 500bhp, so he had no choice but to go to a filter that could flow enough air. Funnily enough, he has completely screened off the filter in a custom box, making it just a larger version of the OE set-up. Now obviously being the bufty he is, he did it for no other reason than because it looked good .

Regarding the comments about standard airboxes, this might be true of NORMAL cars, but the Cosworth was originally designed for homologation so maximum flow WAS a big consideration. Obviously on today's shopping trollies, it is highly unlikely that this is even considered at all . Therefore the OE Cosworth airbox is a VERY good design and should not be replaced below 500bhp (IMO) .

foreigneRS

but what do you mean by that? one of those crappy convoluted pieces of ducting that points vaguely at the cone?

how do you make sure that the cold air feed goes all around the cone? put the cone in a box and you're back to where we started.

i think we're basically arguing the same point, but the definition is slightly different

i fully agree with Mike on this one. he has experience and knowledge of different arrangements, and i have many years experience working in a climatic wind tunnel with measuring under bonnet temperatures

Rick

Mike, i ca assure you that that where the filter is located (on a lowly S2, not Cos) the air does not approach that temperature. I've monitored temperatures on a stationary car at different points in the engine bay, and even then the temp at the front by the headlights/grill does not rise that much. Temperatures in other parts of the bay do rise significantly ,and cool less when moving too. As soon as you move, the filter is being blasted with outside air - the temperature in the engine is of little relevance.

With regard to why std cars use an airbox - this is down to practicality and noise issues, not performance..

rapidcossie

A modified air box is best for 99% of cars on here.

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Please re-read what I put. The temps in TRAFFIC / STATIONARY etc are totally irrellevant, even on the road with short squirts the engine bay will recover very quickly . It is ON TRACK where the ENGINE BAY temps rise to this, I KNOW, as I measure the temps IN THE ENGINE BAY and have a gauge permanently rigged up to record this .

On the road, these are insignificant, but on the track when the EGTs are 800-900° due to constantly being on the throttle, the radiated heat is absolutely immense, and I can assure you, a cone filter is just sucking all this in, due to it's close proximity to the exhaust manifold (several inches).

costina

iTrader: (1)

I would expect a post like that Rod

I've decided to go with the std box and K&N panel for my 330 ish bhp saff

As for the cortina i can only use a small cone due to space how cwill this affect power torque as i'm aiming for around 400 bhp not massive power but more than enough for now

Mike whats your view

cheers
Paul

Franco

iTrader: (2)

Martin's must be another good location through surely? He doesnt seem to have heat soak issues on track?

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Paul,
Good call on the standard airbox .

My advice for the 'Tina would be to box it in someway so that it is not sucking in air from the engine bay .

Disabled Account

You mean "in bumper" Franco?

Damn, him and Porkie coppied me





Some lead..............others follow

Franco

iTrader: (2)

If you really want to clutch at straws Doug, i used to run my Ramair filter down there on my Fiesta turbo (T3 so no room!) approx 6yrs ago!

Just dont ask for pictures!

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

That's a SHIT place to run an air filter . Just think of all the road grime that will pick up there - it must need cleaning every month .

Franco

iTrader: (2)

I never cleaned mine once!

Oh and it was driven in ALL conditions! The engine was the only thing NOT to break on that car Paul will back me up!

I had to clean it when i gave it to Bentley (SOYS) missus, took me about 3 days

Disabled Account

I do clean and oil my Green Cotton filter once a month.........

Regardless of where they are fitted, many peeps dont clean & oil their K & N's often enough. Worth noting that they dont work very well unless oiled up correctly .