Engine Advantages Rollers - Whats peoples opinion of them?
03-05-2007, 03:58 PM
#41
Originally Posted by Bosch Dealer
...to the original question...
...they are like any other rollers..inaccurate as they are meant as a diagnostic tool only with an option to get a very rough power figure...the dyno is the only true way of finding BHP.
...they are like any other rollers..inaccurate as they are meant as a diagnostic tool only with an option to get a very rough power figure...the dyno is the only true way of finding BHP.
Thats not particuarly correct.
Yes they ARE meant as a diagnostic tool but they should potentially be as accurate at measuring wheel BHP as a dyno is at measuring flywheel BHP, and at least they are more "real world" in that the engine is in a car
03-05-2007, 04:04 PM
#43
Originally Posted by Bosch Dealer
...i think youd need a hub dyno to get a good at wheel figure.
It makes no real different if its a hub dyno or a set of rollers providing there is no wheel spin.
03-05-2007, 04:12 PM
#45
Originally Posted by Bosch Dealer
....then if thats your reply...surely your best to do arse reading like me...as they are all in the same field...the field of guessing
Ie they are all guess, but some are educated, and some are, well you
My speed gives me a reading.
My GPS gives me a reading.
Sticking my arse out the sunroof and seeing how many hairs blow off would give me another reading.
We all know which one of those your cars figures are based on
03-05-2007, 04:21 PM
#50
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From what i remember, EA simply just stick in a fixed percentage loss to calculate a fly figure.
Having said that, a lot of rollers give those kind of loses. All the RR days i went to at Nobles in chesterfield, cars making 170 ish wheels made 210+ flywheel.
Having said that, a lot of rollers give those kind of loses. All the RR days i went to at Nobles in chesterfield, cars making 170 ish wheels made 210+ flywheel.
03-05-2007, 04:22 PM
#51
Originally Posted by cossie4i
You 2 at it again 
Steve.
Steve.
Not for any longer you will be pleased to hear mate, finishing work for the week now so unlikely to be online much if at all till tuesday as I dont tend to come on here much unless im being paid to do so
Have a good BH weekend everyone
03-05-2007, 05:06 PM
#54
just finding my feet
ive noticed the cars TUNNED by paul hills make better bhp at the rolling road shootouts
remember popeyes car getting 270 for his nms stage one and he was not a happy bunny,,,, paul even said to him that 270 is a good figure for a normal spec cossie as stage one
so no hes figures are generally not that good and vary alot aswell
remember popeyes car getting 270 for his nms stage one and he was not a happy bunny,,,, paul even said to him that 270 is a good figure for a normal spec cossie as stage one
so no hes figures are generally not that good and vary alot aswell
03-05-2007, 05:08 PM
#55
just finding my feet
what was the r/r print out for ian howells engine that paul built,,,, that was a good result for a car where his pectel said never even ran at that time if i recall
03-05-2007, 05:11 PM
#56
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Originally Posted by Chip-3Door
Originally Posted by Billabong
To get an accurate flywheel reading, engine dyno' it.
Oh and potentially if it was run leaner too, if you look at all the SCS dyno plots of course!
(12.5 in the car? umm NO!)
Of course not everyone puts the AFR on their dyno printouts, which makes it harder to compare.... but are you suggesting a mapper should deliberately map a car rich on the engine dyno? There's still a strong possibility it's going to be different once in the car (AFR)
Unfortunately no one's come up with a reliable device to measure flywheel horsepower in an in-car situation
03-05-2007, 05:11 PM
#57
just finding my feet
phil your arse dyno of jims car proves yours is about as acurate as paul hills
you said it felt quicker than a stage 3 saph at the time,,, must have been a slow stage 3 saph as hes dont feel like it to me
you said it felt quicker than a stage 3 saph at the time,,, must have been a slow stage 3 saph as hes dont feel like it to me
03-05-2007, 05:54 PM
#58
I was a bit disappointed with the power my Sapphire Cosworth made on their rollers peaking at 1.5 bar
I've had enough of small engines
http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive/7121pp.html
Mark
I've had enough of small engines
http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive/7121pp.html
Mark
03-05-2007, 06:10 PM
#59
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Originally Posted by Ginge !
phil your arse dyno of jims car proves yours is about as acurate as Paul hills
you said it felt quicker than a stage 3 saph at the time,,, must have been a slow stage 3 saph as hes dont feel like it to me
you said it felt quicker than a stage 3 saph at the time,,, must have been a slow stage 3 saph as hes dont feel like it to me
..so not sure why the dig???
03-05-2007, 06:14 PM
#60
just finding my feet
not a dig phil bit piss take banter
maybe my arse dyno over reads as jims car feels slower than it actually is,,,, but i put that down to shonky ford build quality making 70mph feel like 100mph
i can do 130 in my bm and feels like im doing 90 in my cossie,,,,,, or 40 in a escort
so you grumpy old git
maybe my arse dyno over reads as jims car feels slower than it actually is,,,, but i put that down to shonky ford build quality making 70mph feel like 100mph
i can do 130 in my bm and feels like im doing 90 in my cossie,,,,,, or 40 in a escort
so
you grumpy old git
03-05-2007, 06:52 PM
#62
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the dyno is only as good as the software thats converting the wheel figures to flywheel figures according to the recorded run down loss.
Sounds like the software is more "inaccurate" than the mechanical rollers will be
Sounds like the software is more "inaccurate" than the mechanical rollers will be
03-05-2007, 07:56 PM
#64
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Originally Posted by Bosch Dealer
the dyno is the only true way of finding BHP.
03-05-2007, 08:07 PM
#65
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Originally Posted by Ginge !
what was the r/r print out for ian howells engine that Paul built,,,, that was a good result for a car where his pectel said never even ran at that time if i recall
, I can't belive the idiots mounted the wastegate on the EGR pipes 
03-05-2007, 08:13 PM
#66
DEYTUKURJERBS
Originally Posted by RWD_cossie_wil
Originally Posted by Ginge !
what was the r/r print out for ian howells engine that Paul built,,,, that was a good result for a car where his pectel said never even ran at that time if i recall
, I can't belive the idiots mounted the wastegate on the EGR pipes Start-MicrosoftExcell-CreateGraph
How the fuck can you even pretend a car is mapped when it has unlimited boost anyhow and therefore could never be mapped
03-05-2007, 08:15 PM
#67
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Originally Posted by Stavros
Originally Posted by RWD_cossie_wil
Originally Posted by Ginge !
what was the r/r print out for ian howells engine that Paul built,,,, that was a good result for a car where his pectel said never even ran at that time if i recall
, I can't belive the idiots mounted the wastegate on the EGR pipes Start-MicrosoftExcell-CreateGraph
How the fuck can you even pretend a car is mapped when it has unlimited boost anyhow and therefore could never be mapped
....
03-05-2007, 09:10 PM
#68
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Originally Posted by Ginge !
ive noticed the cars TUNNED by Paul hills make better bhp at the rolling road shootouts
remember popeyes car getting 270 for his nms stage one and he was not a happy bunny,,,, Paul even said to him that 270 is a good figure for a normal spec cossie as stage one
so no hes figures are generally not that good and vary alot aswell
remember popeyes car getting 270 for his nms stage one and he was not a happy bunny,,,, Paul even said to him that 270 is a good figure for a normal spec cossie as stage one
so no hes figures are generally not that good and vary alot aswell
cant remember the figures 100%,
but it went along the lines of my car going on the rollers, paul takes it off and said it went sweet as a nut ( i dont bother usually watching my car on the rollers as it bores me, lol ) i then asked him what it made in which he asked me the spec so told him a stage 1, he said 270ish would be a good figure and asked what i had hoped for. i said 300, he said never
he then downloaded the figures and it made 303bhp if i remember correctly. he then went on to tell he it must be running really unsafe.
came on the net and everyone told me the figures were bullshit, so went down to see gary and christian the next weekend and they ran it up 3 times and it recorded 314,315 and i think 317
03-05-2007, 09:40 PM
#71
Professional Waffler
but are you suggesting a mapper should deliberately map a car rich on the engine dyno? There's still a strong possibility it's going to be different once in the car (AFR)
03-05-2007, 09:42 PM
#72
Testing the future
Originally Posted by Billabong
Unfortunately no one's come up with a reliable device to measure flywheel horsepower in an in-car situation
you could also do it with propshaft, gearbox input shaft or whatever, but then you've got losses between there and the engine - just like on a rolling road
people who say that rolling roads are inaccurate obviously don't understand them - they can be very accurate provided the operator knows how to use it properly and does so - not using it to incorrectly to fudge the figures.
most of the time they are cannot replicate real world driving conditions though as they simply do not have enough airflow to simulate that road speed of max rpm in 4th gear - that is where a lot of the differences in measurements between engine dynos and rolling roads come from
04-05-2007, 07:04 PM
#74
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VERY Interesting read.
How does the fact EA's Dyno is not a DynoDynamics RR count?Alot of people seem to have those nowadays,are they more acurate and a better benchmark between RR facilitys?
Also,what type of correction setup is the best?
What is the best way to know what your car is making,I'd have thought an engine dyno.But I can totally see the pratical side of chassis dynos with the advantages of the full cooling,exhaust and intake systems as per the car on the road etc.
Finally: (Alex )How does the tyre pressure/ATW thing affect the above ^^?
Thanks for reading,been reading about Dynos a bit lately and they just confuse me RE: ATW,estimated flywheel power and correction etc.
How does the fact EA's Dyno is not a DynoDynamics RR count?Alot of people seem to have those nowadays,are they more acurate and a better benchmark between RR facilitys?
Also,what type of correction setup is the best?
What is the best way to know what your car is making,I'd have thought an engine dyno.But I can totally see the pratical side of chassis dynos with the advantages of the full cooling,exhaust and intake systems as per the car on the road etc.
Finally: (Alex
)How does the tyre pressure/ATW thing affect the above ^^?Thanks for reading,been reading about Dynos a bit lately and they just confuse me RE: ATW,estimated flywheel power and correction etc.
04-05-2007, 08:42 PM
#76
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Originally Posted by NathR
EAs rollers massively overead from what I've heard. Kev.H ran his FRS there and with minimal mods, with which every other FRS would typically make 250-260BHP, his made 295BHP!
with bluefin, chargecooler, decat, exhaust, k&Ng2 I made 295BHP 
I then added a PD manifold and blitz boost controller which has made the car hugely faster and made 267bhp @ SCC (which is the most a car with those mods has made on those rollers 
)After visitng Robs SCC ego crusher dyno I now realise why some tuners cars do the business and some dont
MY EA Graph
the odd thing this is a new ST made 224 the same day 
04-05-2007, 08:55 PM
#77
Originally Posted by Kev.H
Originally Posted by NathR
EAs rollers massively overead from what I've heard. Kev.H ran his FRS there and with minimal mods, with which every other FRS would typically make 250-260BHP, his made 295BHP!
with bluefin, chargecooler, decat, exhaust, k&Ng2 I made 295BHP I then added a PD manifold and blitz boost controller which has made the car hugely faster and made 267bhp @ SCC (which is the most a car with those mods has made on those rollers )After visitng Robs SCC ego crusher dyno I now realise why some tuners cars do the business and some dont
MY EA Graph
the odd thing this is a new ST made 224 the same day Mine showed the same at wheels power at Surrey Rolling Road and EAs, but the flywheel figure was 20Bhp more at EAs.
Steve.
04-05-2007, 08:58 PM
#79
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Originally Posted by cossie4i
Originally Posted by Kev.H
Originally Posted by NathR
EAs rollers massively overead from what I've heard. Kev.H ran his FRS there and with minimal mods, with which every other FRS would typically make 250-260BHP, his made 295BHP!
with bluefin, chargecooler, decat, exhaust, k&Ng2 I made 295BHP I then added a PD manifold and blitz boost controller which has made the car hugely faster and made 267bhp @ SCC (which is the most a car with those mods has made on those rollers )After visitng Robs SCC ego crusher dyno I now realise why some tuners cars do the business and some dont
MY EA Graph
the odd thing this is a new ST made 224 the same day Mine showed the same at wheels power at Surrey Rolling Road and EAs, but the flywheel figure was 20Bhp more at EAs.
Steve.
which is odd cos my car is alot faster now
04-05-2007, 09:03 PM
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I had 2 cars mapped at EA prior to shipping out here with the instructions that I wanted them to run as nice as possible.(Both modded but Max power was not my objective) straight into containers and shipped.
I wasn't happy with either but one in particular was unuasable in lower gears.
sent the chip and baby board back for checking and was told it was fine spent months trying to find the fault... Spoke to Karl (NMS) who sent me out a chip to my engine spec and the car has run great ever since.
To Karl
I wasn't happy with either but one in particular was unuasable in lower gears.
sent the chip and baby board back for checking and was told it was fine spent months trying to find the fault... Spoke to Karl (NMS) who sent me out a chip to my engine spec and the car has run great ever since.
To Karl