Are big brakes really necessary..............
01-05-2007, 05:23 PM
#41
Originally Posted by S1rst
Originally Posted by Marc LJX
Obviously when you reach the point where the brakes are too good for the car, its just overkill and your throwing money away.
you can never have too big of a set of brakes.
01-05-2007, 05:41 PM
#45
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the best money i ever spent on my cossie was for the brakes.
even for normal road use needed them a couple of times when people have stopped in front. definately better on track
I ordered the brakes before I even bought the car
even for normal road use needed them a couple of times when people have stopped in front. definately better on track
I ordered the brakes before I even bought the car
01-05-2007, 05:50 PM
#46
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i have standard s2 brakes on my cabby, and i can lock the wheels ok if i wanted to. i can understand people who do track days wanting big brakes to reduse the fade, but if you just drive abit to and from work etc then its not really nessesary, just make sure they are looked after.
01-05-2007, 07:25 PM
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You only need to look at any decent sports car, Lambo, Ferrari etc most have 400BHP + but you don't see them with Drum brakes do you.
Why go for more power than Ford suppiled if your not going to use it. Waste of money if you ask me.
Surley you spec your brakes to how your going to drive & the performamnce of the car. Simple really.
Why go for more power than Ford suppiled if your not going to use it. Waste of money if you ask me.
Surley you spec your brakes to how your going to drive & the performamnce of the car. Simple really.
01-05-2007, 07:40 PM
#48
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Originally Posted by ECOS95
Surley you spec your brakes to how your going to drive & the performamnce of the car. Simple really.
Yes it makes it safer if your going to drive more enthusiatically and on track but i could put the standard brakes back on mine and not really tell much difference on the road, not that i would put standards back on though.
01-05-2007, 07:47 PM
#49
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as with any of these things for me its all about improving the car as with other chassis mods, like you s1rst i rarely call on my brakes because i dont use my car on track and don't hoon around 24/7 for the hell of it.
However i can honestly say my brake upgrade is truely awsome and even with a pitiful power output its good to know i can stop on a sixpence when needed
However i can honestly say my brake upgrade is truely awsome and even with a pitiful power output its good to know i can stop on a sixpence when needed
01-05-2007, 08:07 PM
#52
what the fuck is all this talk of 'i can lock my brakes at any speed' 
how is skidding a good way to slow down
you may be able to lock your shitty small brakes but how about using them hard for a while, then they start to fade like shit
i was having a spirited drive in my escos the other day (5.2k rev limit & 14psi boost) after a couple of heavy turns the brakes were fading & feeling prety shitty, there standard size with grooved disks & uprated pads, when it revs to 7.2k & has 30 psi of boost they won't last 5 minutes before they overheat, fade or warp!!! The big sat of AP's i have will be up to the job though
how is skidding a good way to slow down
you may be able to lock your shitty small brakes but how about using them hard for a while, then they start to fade like shit
i was having a spirited drive in my escos the other day (5.2k rev limit & 14psi boost) after a couple of heavy turns the brakes were fading & feeling prety shitty, there standard size with grooved disks & uprated pads, when it revs to 7.2k & has 30 psi of boost they won't last 5 minutes before they overheat, fade or warp!!! The big sat of AP's i have will be up to the job though
01-05-2007, 08:22 PM
#55
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Originally Posted by AlexF
If you can lock your brakes at any speed and they don't fade you do not NEED bigger brakes!
Alex
Alex
01-05-2007, 08:24 PM
#57
Originally Posted by S1rst
Originally Posted by AlexF
If you can lock your brakes at any speed and they don't fade you do not NEED bigger brakes!
Alex
Alex
. The tyre is your contact patch for the brakes all to work through, so the better these are, the more you can lean on good brakes.
01-05-2007, 08:29 PM
#58
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Originally Posted by Mike Rainbird
Originally Posted by S1rst
Originally Posted by AlexF
If you can lock your brakes at any speed and they don't fade you do not NEED bigger brakes!
Alex
Alex
. The tyre is your contact patch for the brakes all to work through, so the better these are, the more you can lean on good brakes.Tyres are probably the most important part of you whole car so buy the best you can afford
01-05-2007, 08:36 PM
#61
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Originally Posted by Mike Rainbird
Originally Posted by S1rst
Originally Posted by AlexF
If you can lock your brakes at any speed and they don't fade you do not NEED bigger brakes!
Alex
Alex
. The tyre is your contact patch for the brakes all to work through, so the better these are, the more you can lean on good brakes.
brakes are nothing without control - copyright AFRacing LTD 2007
01-05-2007, 08:39 PM
#62
Originally Posted by AlexF
If you can lock your brakes at any speed and they don't fade you do not NEED bigger brakes!
Alex
Alex
What about FEEL? Being able to lock up is one thing, but being able to find that point, then ease off that little bit is something else.
I never understood the need for big brakes originally, then my brother explained that locking up and fade resistance was not the be all and end all of braking.
Now, having fitted larger brakes front and rear on my Cos, there is no WAY I'd ever consider not upgrading the brakes on any car I'll ever own.
Power is nothing without control and all that shit....
Si
01-05-2007, 08:54 PM
#64
her's my take so you can pick holes in it if you wish 
i've got a set of stoppers on the seirra which, while not as good as the "better" options, still compreise of a set of 330mm discs and 4 pot calipers
before that i had a set of 300mm's with the same calipers
and before that i had a set of 4wd cossie stoppers, 278mm discs and single pots
and before that the normal xr4x4 stoppers, 260mm discs and smaller calipers
the standard set up was good enough for day to day driving but crap when it came to using all 177 brake in the 1.5 tons of car with it's 195/60 14 tyres it was a bit poo
putting on the cossie set up made no noticeable difference, even with better pads and fancy discs and now running 205/50 16's
so the next step up was the 300mm's and 4 pots
there was a noticeably better braking feel with this set up, but still running the same wheels and tyres (preilli P6000)
then i got hold of a set of 17's with 205/40's (falkens) and i upgraded to 330mm with the same 4 pots
the difference was amazing, i could now stop on a proverbial six pence, as a "oh shit i'm going to die
" moment from 80 mph meant stopping in less than half the distance i was expecting (i was braced for impact)
they didn't fade, you could just dab the pedal and ther was huge amounts of stopping ability and i was happy as larry
for those of you who say you can lock up your brakes at any speeds, why?
you need to be able to stop, not skid into stationary objects so why do you want to lock up?
the bigger the brakes the more you can stop ebcause the car is pushing the front of itself, and therefore the tyres, into the ground so you can generate more grip and hence make use of the better stopping ability
and because you are using more of the disc to stop you don't have to press the pedal as hard, i'm sure someone will come along with a short sensible explanation so i won't go on for ages trying to fail to explain what i mean
and why is it that every brake test with bigger stoppers stops you in a much shorter distance if everything else is equal?
you can keep your weedy stoppers, i'll happyly use the biggest stoppers i can fit behind my wheels thank you very much
and, with 18's i'm sure i can slot in a set of 355's onto the mondeo
i've got a set of stoppers on the seirra which, while not as good as the "better" options, still compreise of a set of 330mm discs and 4 pot calipers
before that i had a set of 300mm's with the same calipers
and before that i had a set of 4wd cossie stoppers, 278mm discs and single pots
and before that the normal xr4x4 stoppers, 260mm discs and smaller calipers
the standard set up was good enough for day to day driving but crap when it came to using all 177 brake in the 1.5 tons of car with it's 195/60 14 tyres it was a bit poo
putting on the cossie set up made no noticeable difference, even with better pads and fancy discs and now running 205/50 16's
so the next step up was the 300mm's and 4 pots
there was a noticeably better braking feel with this set up, but still running the same wheels and tyres (preilli P6000)
then i got hold of a set of 17's with 205/40's (falkens) and i upgraded to 330mm with the same 4 pots
the difference was amazing, i could now stop on a proverbial six pence, as a "oh shit i'm going to die
" moment from 80 mph meant stopping in less than half the distance i was expecting (i was braced for impact)they didn't fade, you could just dab the pedal and ther was huge amounts of stopping ability and i was happy as larry
for those of you who say you can lock up your brakes at any speeds, why?
you need to be able to stop, not skid into stationary objects so why do you want to lock up?
the bigger the brakes the more you can stop ebcause the car is pushing the front of itself, and therefore the tyres, into the ground so you can generate more grip and hence make use of the better stopping ability
and because you are using more of the disc to stop you don't have to press the pedal as hard, i'm sure someone will come along with a short sensible explanation so i won't go on for ages trying to fail to explain what i mean
and why is it that every brake test with bigger stoppers stops you in a much shorter distance if everything else is equal?
you can keep your weedy stoppers, i'll happyly use the biggest stoppers i can fit behind my wheels thank you very much
and, with 18's i'm sure i can slot in a set of 355's onto the mondeo
01-05-2007, 09:02 PM
#65
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SiB....
you can't commment about brake feel - you subscribe to the on/off apllication of any car control
Ginge - I brake enough to make the ABS cut in at most corners on the ring
you can't commment about brake feel - you subscribe to the on/off apllication of any car control
Ginge - I brake enough to make the ABS cut in at most corners on the ring
01-05-2007, 09:09 PM
#66
20K+ Super Poster.
i think that the theory behind not needing a brake upgrade is sound.
however, the moment you drive a car hard enough to get brake fade, the throty goes out the windoe
i'll admit ive NEVER experienced brake fade driving on the road, in any car ive driven (inc an XR4x4 with almost 300bhp and standard 260mm brakes)
however, 1 lap of a track and i know, i NEED big brakes
it's the fade resistance that's required imho.
if you want to stop quicker, get better tyres.
if you want to stop over and over again, get better brakes
however, the moment you drive a car hard enough to get brake fade, the throty goes out the windoe
i'll admit ive NEVER experienced brake fade driving on the road, in any car ive driven (inc an XR4x4 with almost 300bhp and standard 260mm brakes)
however, 1 lap of a track and i know, i NEED big brakes
it's the fade resistance that's required imho.
if you want to stop quicker, get better tyres.
if you want to stop over and over again, get better brakes
01-05-2007, 09:10 PM
#67
just finding my feet
you mean late enough !!!!
your driving was very very relaxed,,, never noticed you brake that much so must have been gentle or done in sections where i was holding on screaming like a girl
your driving was very very relaxed,,, never noticed you brake that much so must have been gentle or done in sections where i was holding on screaming like a girl
01-05-2007, 09:16 PM
#68
just finding my feet
jim is it fade or boil your getting though ????
you aint that hard on the brakes imo but ive never seen you on track,,, but you do drive a little like a girl these days though,,, i can remember being in a car with you and thinking when are you gonna realise the rev counter is a indicator not a target
these days its more like a a challenge for you to keep the rev counter on the floor
btw my car has brake boil not fade and ive STAMPED on the brakes as i DO drive like a cunt when im bored and had to use the gears and raise the handbrake a little for a few roundabouts and aim the car as best i could
big brakes HAVE been purchased just need discs and brackets though
you aint that hard on the brakes imo but ive never seen you on track,,, but you do drive a little like a girl these days though,,, i can remember being in a car with you and thinking when are you gonna realise the rev counter is a indicator not a target
these days its more like a a challenge for you to keep the rev counter on the floor
btw my car has brake boil not fade and ive STAMPED on the brakes as i DO drive like a cunt when im bored and had to use the gears and raise the handbrake a little for a few roundabouts and aim the car as best i could
big brakes HAVE been purchased just need discs and brackets though
01-05-2007, 09:23 PM
#70
just finding my feet
Originally Posted by Moose 130
you should always be able to get out of trouble quicker than you can get into it.
01-05-2007, 09:49 PM
#75
Originally Posted by Gary_R
When brakes fade they become less effective, but do they wear down as much compared to brakes that aren't faded?
01-05-2007, 09:59 PM
#78
Bigger wheels would help you fade less Dan, but you know that.
Air cooling is necesary, running fag paper widths between caliper and wheel can have the opposite effect when hot, as they cant cool quick enough.
In some cases bigger is not always better
Air cooling is necesary, running fag paper widths between caliper and wheel can have the opposite effect when hot, as they cant cool quick enough.
In some cases bigger is not always better
01-05-2007, 10:01 PM
#79
PassionFord Post Whore!!
I'll put some ducting to the discs, if that doesn't help I'm just gonna sell up and search for some new brakes..
Might save for some compbrake stuff if you can sort me out
01-05-2007, 10:12 PM
#80
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tyres, as said by a few others it's the tyre that actually stops the car not the brakes, all the brake pads are doing is slowing the disc, then the only thing actually slowing the car is the tyre.
Pressures are just as important, there was a thread here the other day with someone saying front pressure should be about 40psi on they're chosen tyre as reccomended by the tyre manufacturer. Now i am no tyre expert but in my opinion 40psi is far too high and the brakes will lock alot sooner than at a lower pressure.
As said, when they lock you loose braking performance and just end up skidding.
Brake fluid, most people fit new callipers at the front and maybe fast road pads at the rear but never actually bother to bleed the rear brakes, contaminated brake fluid will boil at lower temps and give similar symptons to brake fade.
Those of you still on rear drums, nothing wrong with drums, except owners never service them and if they do take the drum off alot of people don't know what they're looking for or doing so either pop the drum back on or convert to discs.
imho before a brake upgrade; tyres, pressures, rear brake check-over, fluid. in that order!
Pressures are just as important, there was a thread here the other day with someone saying front pressure should be about 40psi on they're chosen tyre as reccomended by the tyre manufacturer. Now i am no tyre expert but in my opinion 40psi is far too high and the brakes will lock alot sooner than at a lower pressure.
As said, when they lock you loose braking performance and just end up skidding.
Brake fluid, most people fit new callipers at the front and maybe fast road pads at the rear but never actually bother to bleed the rear brakes, contaminated brake fluid will boil at lower temps and give similar symptons to brake fade.
Those of you still on rear drums, nothing wrong with drums, except owners never service them and if they do take the drum off alot of people don't know what they're looking for or doing so either pop the drum back on or convert to discs.
imho before a brake upgrade; tyres, pressures, rear brake check-over, fluid. in that order!