£100m Mosque
#41
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Originally Posted by RichardPON
Originally Posted by Cawood
i think rich is one of those people with his head stuck up his own arse and doesn't see and realise the problems going in this country and has to be politically correct.
its fuck the true british as long as all the foreigners are well catered for
its fuck the true british as long as all the foreigners are well catered for
Benefit of an education mate - you should try it some time.
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Originally Posted by T S M
perhaps it will be used as a UK call centre ![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
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![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
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![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
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End of the day, up to them, as long as it aint our money i couldnt care.
For some reason, a part of me is seeing it like it's almost a competition? From the extract Miss Fiesta Turbo posted up, sounds like they are trying to make it bigger than everything else England is known for? Yeah, it's a place of religion etc etc, like many other Mosques, why make it that big though
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Originally Posted by MattRS1600i
Originally Posted by RichardPON
Originally Posted by KSA-Cossie
Plenty mosques back in their own country . ![Wall](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/wall.gif)
![Wall](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/wall.gif)
I'll bet more of them say mumbai or pakistan or india than 21 Grays Avenue Hampstead Heath.
Its home in the uk when it suits but in their heads its just an easier place to exist to send money home to their families. This is especially true of the vast amounts of eastern europeans we have coming here now.
what you lot on about???? its the white kids that go round spitting on elders, mothers and vandalising.
This forums full of racists,
#44
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Originally Posted by Cawood
the woman had the police round earlier, made her remove some pig ornaments out of her window as it was offending local muslims!
![Wall](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/wall.gif)
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#45
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Originally Posted by 4x4
Originally Posted by MattRS1600i
Originally Posted by RichardPON
Originally Posted by KSA-Cossie
Plenty mosques back in their own country . ![Wall](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/wall.gif)
![Wall](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/wall.gif)
I'll bet more of them say mumbai or pakistan or india than 21 Grays Avenue Hampstead Heath.
Its home in the uk when it suits but in their heads its just an easier place to exist to send money home to their families. This is especially true of the vast amounts of eastern europeans we have coming here now.
what you lot on about???? its the white kids that go round spitting on elders, mothers and vandalising.
This forums full of racists,
#46
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Originally Posted by 4x4
what you lot on about???? its the white kids that go round spitting on elders, mothers and vandalising.
This forums full of racists,
havent you just made a racist comment yourself? tut tut
#47
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im guessing your not white then are you 4x4
its ok for "other" races to say thing about whites, but as soon as whites say anything
its the whole RACIST RACIST RACIST
its ok for "other" races to say thing about whites, but as soon as whites say anything
its the whole RACIST RACIST RACIST
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Originally Posted by 4x4
Originally Posted by MattRS1600i
Originally Posted by RichardPON
Originally Posted by KSA-Cossie
Plenty mosques back in their own country . ![Wall](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/wall.gif)
![Wall](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/wall.gif)
I'll bet more of them say mumbai or pakistan or india than 21 Grays Avenue Hampstead Heath.
Its home in the uk when it suits but in their heads its just an easier place to exist to send money home to their families. This is especially true of the vast amounts of eastern europeans we have coming here now.
what you lot on about???? its the white kids that go round spitting on elders, mothers and vandalising.
This forums full of racists,
By the sounds of it, what gets peoples backs up about immigrants is they are all living off our money, which some are. Not all are. Some were born here, and work for their money. But i think it's also because it always seems like the unemployed immigrants get 1st class treatment compared to hard working british people. But i am not saying people of ethnic origin are all like that before i start getting called racist
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Originally Posted by GARETH T
Originally Posted by 4x4
what you lot on about???? its the white kids that go round spitting on elders, mothers and vandalising.
This forums full of racists,
havent you just made a racist comment yourself? tut tut
#50
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Originally Posted by KSA-Cossie
Plenty mosques back in their own country . ![Wall](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/wall.gif)
![Wall](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/wall.gif)
![Clap](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/9c-clap.gif)
![Clap](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/9c-clap.gif)
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I'm past caring what they do, build or protest about. I'm just going to do what the majority of them do, keep to my own, speak my own language and have as little to do with them as possible. Be polite when it arises but generally keep it to a minimum.
Being English your are bottom of the pile these days.
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Originally Posted by GARETH T
Originally Posted by 4x4
what you lot on about???? its the white kids that go round spitting on elders, mothers and vandalising.
This forums full of racists,
havent you just made a racist comment yourself? tut tut
i can Just remeber what friends did what when i was a kid.
#52
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Originally Posted by 4x4
Originally Posted by GARETH T
Originally Posted by 4x4
what you lot on about???? its the white kids that go round spitting on elders, mothers and vandalising.
This forums full of racists,
havent you just made a racist comment yourself? tut tut
i can Just remeber what friends did what when i was a kid.
its a whole social problem,,, colour doesnt come into it
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#53
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Originally Posted by RichardPON
Originally Posted by KSA-Cossie
Plenty mosques back in their own country . ![Wall](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/wall.gif)
![Wall](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/wall.gif)
Yeah right, Pon. Have you ever been into or near your local mosque?
![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
#54
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Originally Posted by 4x4
Originally Posted by MattRS1600i
Originally Posted by RichardPON
Originally Posted by KSA-Cossie
Plenty mosques back in their own country . ![Wall](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/wall.gif)
![Wall](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/wall.gif)
I'll bet more of them say mumbai or pakistan or india than 21 Grays Avenue Hampstead Heath.
Its home in the uk when it suits but in their heads its just an easier place to exist to send money home to their families. This is especially true of the vast amounts of eastern europeans we have coming here now.
what you lot on about???? its the white kids that go round spitting on elders, mothers and vandalising.
This forums full of racists,
edit: In fact i've just walked through a room of people who are here for citizenship tests. Would you like to sample som actual data for you?
![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
I will dismiss your pathetic comment with which you are attempting to bring racism into my comment.
Do you cry racism everytime you hear something you dont like?
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Originally Posted by Cawood
im guessing your not white then are you 4x4
its ok for "other" races to say thing about whites, but as soon as whites say anything
its the whole RACIST RACIST RACIST
its ok for "other" races to say thing about whites, but as soon as whites say anything
its the whole RACIST RACIST RACIST
when people refer to me as brown it dont bother me until they make it clear they are being racist.
dont get it twisted, i get fucking mad when those stupid fucking islamic extremists preech anti western/english bullshit in this country
![Mad](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/mad.gif)
in no way am i racist or hate the country i live in, i do disagree with half the government desicions but im trying to make my life so try not to think about it too much.
#56
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The reason it IS majority white kids that cause trouble as suggested is purely as a result of proportion.
.......... and I don't disagree with a lot of the comments about how ridiculous things CAN be.
A bunch of us were asked to leave Lords Cricket Ground a couple of years ago, during the England Pakistan one dayer, for having an English flag, and that having one was offensive.
Don't forget, in your example, I bet it was a white middle class person who instructed your friend to remove said ornaments - so how can you blame muslims, when it's someone else being offended on their behalf?
.......... and I don't disagree with a lot of the comments about how ridiculous things CAN be.
A bunch of us were asked to leave Lords Cricket Ground a couple of years ago, during the England Pakistan one dayer, for having an English flag, and that having one was offensive.
Don't forget, in your example, I bet it was a white middle class person who instructed your friend to remove said ornaments - so how can you blame muslims, when it's someone else being offended on their behalf?
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We are lucky to live in a 'free country' where race, religion and freedom of speech is allowed.
I think it is wrong to ask for public/government money to pay for objects of any religion be it a church or mosque.
Britian is not and was not an Islamic country, Muslims have moved to Britain over the decades and been allowed to practice their religion within this Country.
I'm not educated enough in History to say where exactly Britains decended from (saxons etc?) or of what religion they practiced. Unfortunately the fact remains that other religions have been brought into this Country from overseas (yes that could go as far back as the Saxons etc!) I'm happy that I follow no religion at all, I am not sure if Atheist is the correct description. Everyone can follow whatever religion they like, unfortunately not everyone leaves each other to it - holy wars etc
This article should be read with an open mind, as if you digest it as a whole and believe that all Muslims live this way strictly you probably wouldn't be so tolerant of people who follow Islam - I believe this is a one sided view of Muslims and you can't tar them all with the same brush. It's like saying all English are louts etc
What if Islam ruled Britain? http://jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/126.htm
Still the question stands if you moved to an Arab Country would you be allowed to build a Christian Church? That does not mean that I think its wrong that Mulims, Jews etc are allowed to build places of worship in this Country.
Its like Christmas lights - how can you move to a Country where you are aware of its native religion and ask them to change things as you find them offensive - its like me going to an Islamic Country and saying I find the way they celebrate Al-Isra Wal Miraj offensive!
Z
I think it is wrong to ask for public/government money to pay for objects of any religion be it a church or mosque.
Britian is not and was not an Islamic country, Muslims have moved to Britain over the decades and been allowed to practice their religion within this Country.
I'm not educated enough in History to say where exactly Britains decended from (saxons etc?) or of what religion they practiced. Unfortunately the fact remains that other religions have been brought into this Country from overseas (yes that could go as far back as the Saxons etc!) I'm happy that I follow no religion at all, I am not sure if Atheist is the correct description. Everyone can follow whatever religion they like, unfortunately not everyone leaves each other to it - holy wars etc
This article should be read with an open mind, as if you digest it as a whole and believe that all Muslims live this way strictly you probably wouldn't be so tolerant of people who follow Islam - I believe this is a one sided view of Muslims and you can't tar them all with the same brush. It's like saying all English are louts etc
What if Islam ruled Britain? http://jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/126.htm
Still the question stands if you moved to an Arab Country would you be allowed to build a Christian Church? That does not mean that I think its wrong that Mulims, Jews etc are allowed to build places of worship in this Country.
Its like Christmas lights - how can you move to a Country where you are aware of its native religion and ask them to change things as you find them offensive - its like me going to an Islamic Country and saying I find the way they celebrate Al-Isra Wal Miraj offensive!
Z
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Originally Posted by MattRS1600i
Do you cry racism everytime you hear something you dont like?
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MattRS1600i
thanks for the twat comment
its just that every time some idiot like the thread starter wants to sit on the net to scroll through some shitty petitions web site so they can find a potentialy provocative subject and put a WHAT DO YOU THINK title on here it makes me think some people have nothing better to do and loe sstirring shit.
i've always tryed to stay away from topics like this cause they very easily become offensive. i am not muslim but still an ETHNIC MINORITY
thanks for the twat comment
![Top](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/smile011.gif)
its just that every time some idiot like the thread starter wants to sit on the net to scroll through some shitty petitions web site so they can find a potentialy provocative subject and put a WHAT DO YOU THINK title on here it makes me think some people have nothing better to do and loe sstirring shit.
i've always tryed to stay away from topics like this cause they very easily become offensive. i am not muslim but still an ETHNIC MINORITY
#60
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Originally Posted by GARETH T
Originally Posted by Cawood
the woman had the police round earlier, made her remove some pig ornaments out of her window as it was offending local muslims!
![Wall](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/wall.gif)
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#61
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Originally Posted by 4x4
MattRS1600i
thanks for the twat comment
its just that every time some idiot like the thread starter wants to sit on the net to scroll through some shitty petitions web site so they can find a potentialy provocative subject and put a WHAT DO YOU THINK title on here it makes me think some people have nothing better to do and loe sstirring shit.
i've always tryed to stay away from topics like this cause they very easily become offensive. i am not muslim but still an ETHNIC MINORITY
thanks for the twat comment
![Top](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/smile011.gif)
its just that every time some idiot like the thread starter wants to sit on the net to scroll through some shitty petitions web site so they can find a potentialy provocative subject and put a WHAT DO YOU THINK title on here it makes me think some people have nothing better to do and loe sstirring shit.
i've always tryed to stay away from topics like this cause they very easily become offensive. i am not muslim but still an ETHNIC MINORITY
![Rolling Eyes](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_rolleyes.gif)
#62
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Originally Posted by skeg
Originally Posted by RichardPON
Originally Posted by KSA-Cossie
Plenty mosques back in their own country . ![Wall](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/wall.gif)
![Wall](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/wall.gif)
Yeah right, Pon. Have you ever been into or near your local mosque?
![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
What's your point?
#63
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Originally Posted by RichardPON
The reason it IS majority white kids that cause trouble as suggested is purely as a result of proportion.
.......... and I don't disagree with a lot of the comments about how ridiculous things CAN be.
A bunch of us were asked to leave Lords Cricket Ground a couple of years ago, during the England Pakistan one dayer, for having an English flag, and that having one was offensive.
Don't forget, in your example, I bet it was a white middle class person who instructed your friend to remove said ornaments - so how can you blame muslims, when it's someone else being offended on their behalf?
.......... and I don't disagree with a lot of the comments about how ridiculous things CAN be.
A bunch of us were asked to leave Lords Cricket Ground a couple of years ago, during the England Pakistan one dayer, for having an English flag, and that having one was offensive.
Don't forget, in your example, I bet it was a white middle class person who instructed your friend to remove said ornaments - so how can you blame muslims, when it's someone else being offended on their behalf?
i know the muslims etc dont ask for this and i bet half of them dont even agree with some of the stupid things that get banned cos it will make they're lives worse was they will get the blame for it
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Originally Posted by Miss Fiesta Turbo
Originally Posted by 4x4
MattRS1600i
thanks for the twat comment
its just that every time some idiot like the thread starter wants to sit on the net to scroll through some shitty petitions web site so they can find a potentialy provocative subject and put a WHAT DO YOU THINK title on here it makes me think some people have nothing better to do and loe sstirring shit.
i've always tryed to stay away from topics like this cause they very easily become offensive. i am not muslim but still an ETHNIC MINORITY
thanks for the twat comment
![Top](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/smile011.gif)
its just that every time some idiot like the thread starter wants to sit on the net to scroll through some shitty petitions web site so they can find a potentialy provocative subject and put a WHAT DO YOU THINK title on here it makes me think some people have nothing better to do and loe sstirring shit.
i've always tryed to stay away from topics like this cause they very easily become offensive. i am not muslim but still an ETHNIC MINORITY
![Rolling Eyes](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_rolleyes.gif)
![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
#65
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If they had planning permission, and they paid for it, what's the problem?
If anybody went to the C of E maybe they'd have £100m to build a Church.
Fact is, Christian attendance is dropping, membership to other religions is increasing. They want a mosque, they are paying for it, they are going to keep it tidy? Great, hopefully it's successful.
Storm in a teacup again. ''Omfgz lets get every1 owt who iznt fromm inglund if they rnt gna go 2a churkh''.
Remember, your Doctor and Dentist are probably Asian. Don't fuck with them.
If anybody went to the C of E maybe they'd have £100m to build a Church.
Fact is, Christian attendance is dropping, membership to other religions is increasing. They want a mosque, they are paying for it, they are going to keep it tidy? Great, hopefully it's successful.
Storm in a teacup again. ''Omfgz lets get every1 owt who iznt fromm inglund if they rnt gna go 2a churkh''.
Remember, your Doctor and Dentist are probably Asian. Don't fuck with them.
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#66
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Originally Posted by Miss Fiesta Turbo
f**king hell didnt realise we're not even allowed to express our opinions anymore
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Originally Posted by Miss Fiesta Turbo
Originally Posted by MattRS1600i
Do you cry racism everytime you hear something you dont like?
![Rolling Eyes](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_rolleyes.gif)
listen here love, you dont know the majority of non-british people. why make a wild inacurate comment?
ps: the majority of non british your refering to are probably the ones who are british, doesn't mean if your muslim, jew, black, brown your not british????? if your born here your a british citizen
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oh come off it... you see it all the time... people saying 'you only arrested me because i'm black' or 'you wont give me the job because i'm not white'
people use it all the time because they know they get results from claiming someone is being 'racist'
oh and thanks for calling me 'love'
![Big Grin](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_mrgreen.gif)
i personally blame the government
![Rolling Eyes](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_rolleyes.gif)
people use it all the time because they know they get results from claiming someone is being 'racist'
oh and thanks for calling me 'love'
![](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bisou.gif)
![Big Grin](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_mrgreen.gif)
i personally blame the government
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#69
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Originally Posted by Miss Fiesta Turbo
oh come off it... you see it all the time... people saying 'you only arrested me because i'm black' or 'you wont give me the job because i'm not white'
people use it all the time because they know they get results from claiming someone is being 'racist'
oh and thanks for calling me 'love'
![Big Grin](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_mrgreen.gif)
![Rolling Eyes](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_rolleyes.gif)
people use it all the time because they know they get results from claiming someone is being 'racist'
oh and thanks for calling me 'love'
![](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bisou.gif)
![Big Grin](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_mrgreen.gif)
''You won't take me because I'm not British Asian'' from White people.
Racism card goes both ways.
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Originally Posted by Miss Fiesta Turbo
Originally Posted by 4x4
MattRS1600i
thanks for the twat comment
its just that every time some idiot like the thread starter wants to sit on the net to scroll through some shitty petitions web site so they can find a potentialy provocative subject and put a WHAT DO YOU THINK title on here it makes me think some people have nothing better to do and love stirring shit.
i've always tryed to stay away from topics like this cause they very easily become offensive. i am not muslim but still an ETHNIC MINORITY
thanks for the twat comment
![Top](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/smile011.gif)
its just that every time some idiot like the thread starter wants to sit on the net to scroll through some shitty petitions web site so they can find a potentialy provocative subject and put a WHAT DO YOU THINK title on here it makes me think some people have nothing better to do and love stirring shit.
i've always tryed to stay away from topics like this cause they very easily become offensive. i am not muslim but still an ETHNIC MINORITY
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it seems like yourthe ones to quickly say "we can't even express ourselves" rather than minorities using the racist card
you said "We're not allowed to express our opinions"??? who is we, would you consider yourself different from ethnics?
#72
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Thats the problem with how this country is going. How many times have we seen Muslims or foreigners along with those that IMO our not true british going on about how are ways are bad or how we should be killed in iraq or whatever yet as soon as we discuss normal issues like immigration or relgion we are condemmed.
There are good and bad people from all relgions and races but i think the guests who come over here to settle get more than they would elsewhere.
On the comment made about councils doing up parks in non white areas, i agree. Just like some premiership clubs have set up training centres recruting from only non white areas. This results in players like Agbonalhor-matador etc. Even normal every days jobs have to recruit so many, SURELY its better to force companies to expell skin colour or beliefs and emply the best man for the job. Those things shouldn't matter on forms or to get a job, qualifications and experience do.
How can we be all equal if its ruled we have to push a certain group more just to compensate for higher population of white? If everyone has the same chance then those who work the hardest for it win the opportunity. Odds shouldn't matter. If you want it you will get it.
If someone told me to move from a cricket ground or whatever i would tell them to suck it and be prepared to be removed by police if need be. Just wait till Euro2008, my massive flag is coming out for all to see and any religious groups or people from other countries who don't like it can just LUMP IT. This is our sport and our country. They are associated with it and have been for years.
There are good and bad people from all relgions and races but i think the guests who come over here to settle get more than they would elsewhere.
On the comment made about councils doing up parks in non white areas, i agree. Just like some premiership clubs have set up training centres recruting from only non white areas. This results in players like Agbonalhor-matador etc. Even normal every days jobs have to recruit so many, SURELY its better to force companies to expell skin colour or beliefs and emply the best man for the job. Those things shouldn't matter on forms or to get a job, qualifications and experience do.
How can we be all equal if its ruled we have to push a certain group more just to compensate for higher population of white? If everyone has the same chance then those who work the hardest for it win the opportunity. Odds shouldn't matter. If you want it you will get it.
If someone told me to move from a cricket ground or whatever i would tell them to suck it and be prepared to be removed by police if need be. Just wait till Euro2008, my massive flag is coming out for all to see and any religious groups or people from other countries who don't like it can just LUMP IT. This is our sport and our country. They are associated with it and have been for years.
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#73
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'we' as in everybody.... seems no-one is allowed to voice their opinions nowadays or discuss things that are going on
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Originally Posted by Cawood
Originally Posted by RichardPON
The reason it IS majority white kids that cause trouble as suggested is purely as a result of proportion.
.......... and I don't disagree with a lot of the comments about how ridiculous things CAN be.
A bunch of us were asked to leave Lords Cricket Ground a couple of years ago, during the England Pakistan one dayer, for having an English flag, and that having one was offensive.
Don't forget, in your example, I bet it was a white middle class person who instructed your friend to remove said ornaments - so how can you blame muslims, when it's someone else being offended on their behalf?
.......... and I don't disagree with a lot of the comments about how ridiculous things CAN be.
A bunch of us were asked to leave Lords Cricket Ground a couple of years ago, during the England Pakistan one dayer, for having an English flag, and that having one was offensive.
Don't forget, in your example, I bet it was a white middle class person who instructed your friend to remove said ornaments - so how can you blame muslims, when it's someone else being offended on their behalf?
i know the muslims etc dont ask for this and i bet half of them dont even agree with some of the stupid things that get banned cos it will make they're lives worse was they will get the blame for it
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#75
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Originally Posted by Katie
You also see in many UK Medical schools, the complete opposite.
''You won't take me because I'm not British Asian'' from White people.
Racism card goes both ways.
And why is this starting to happen now do you think. Is it because british people are sick to the death of it and some are now sadly doing the same as them.
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Originally Posted by 4x4
Originally Posted by Cawood
Originally Posted by RichardPON
The reason it IS majority white kids that cause trouble as suggested is purely as a result of proportion.
.......... and I don't disagree with a lot of the comments about how ridiculous things CAN be.
A bunch of us were asked to leave Lords Cricket Ground a couple of years ago, during the England Pakistan one dayer, for having an English flag, and that having one was offensive.
Don't forget, in your example, I bet it was a white middle class person who instructed your friend to remove said ornaments - so how can you blame muslims, when it's someone else being offended on their behalf?
.......... and I don't disagree with a lot of the comments about how ridiculous things CAN be.
A bunch of us were asked to leave Lords Cricket Ground a couple of years ago, during the England Pakistan one dayer, for having an English flag, and that having one was offensive.
Don't forget, in your example, I bet it was a white middle class person who instructed your friend to remove said ornaments - so how can you blame muslims, when it's someone else being offended on their behalf?
i know the muslims etc dont ask for this and i bet half of them dont even agree with some of the stupid things that get banned cos it will make they're lives worse was they will get the blame for it
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#79
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Originally Posted by skeg
Originally Posted by Katie
You also see in many UK Medical schools, the complete opposite.
''You won't take me because I'm not British Asian'' from White people.
Racism card goes both ways.
And why is this starting to happen now do you think. Is it because british people are sick to the death of it and some are now sadly doing the same as them.
#80
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They tryed to build one up here in The Black Country.. with a community centre with it.. claiming it would "bring us together as a communtiy".. strange as its a muslim only place!!
The idea soon got kicked out
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The midlands is known for its industries not its mosques.. and i want it to stay that way!!
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The idea soon got kicked out
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The midlands is known for its industries not its mosques.. and i want it to stay that way!!
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