Panel filter or grp a cone with trumpet?????????????????????
25-02-2007, 05:20 PM
#1
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Panel filter or grp a cone with trumpet?????????????????????
Just wondered what the general opinion of each was on a cossie, i am stering toward the panel as my car runs no dump valve and still manages to be quiet with the airbox. I aint expecting 30bhp from a filter just that its got a paper 1 in at the mo and could do with a change tbh 
25-02-2007, 07:50 PM
#3
read my rolling road post mate,cone filters are shite,yeah they sound good but the heat they draw from turbo.......drops your power and makes your intercooler work twice as hard,my car made 354 with cone in place and 373 with the jubilee loosened and pipe turned upwards out of the way of heat(just for the run obviously),im puting the airbox back in,sheilding it and adapting airflow............seriously dont do it with an induction kit 
or if you still want 1 il sell u mine for a Ł1
or if you still want 1 il sell u mine for a Ł1
25-02-2007, 07:54 PM
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Cone filter's are fine if your not chasing numbers and figures all day mate! 
I've just put a Grp A Filter on mine today and got rid of the chumpvalve, sounds sooooo much better it's unreal! Plus I can always get a heatshield!
I've just put a Grp A Filter on mine today and got rid of the chumpvalve, sounds sooooo much better it's unreal! Plus I can always get a heatshield!
25-02-2007, 08:27 PM
#6
Originally Posted by col cos1
read my rolling road post mate,cone filters are shite,yeah they sound good but the heat they draw from turbo.......drops your power and makes your intercooler work twice as hard,my car made 354 with cone in place and 373 with the jubilee loosened and pipe turned upwards out of the way of heat(just for the run obviously),im puting the airbox back in,sheilding it and adapting airflow............seriously dont do it with an induction kit
or if you still want 1 il sell u mine for a Ł1
or if you still want 1 il sell u mine for a Ł1
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25-02-2007, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Rainbird
Originally Posted by col cos1
read my rolling road post mate,cone filters are shite,yeah they sound good but the heat they draw from turbo.......drops your power and makes your intercooler work twice as hard,my car made 354 with cone in place and 373 with the jubilee loosened and pipe turned upwards out of the way of heat(just for the run obviously),im puting the airbox back in,sheilding it and adapting airflow............seriously dont do it with an induction kit
or if you still want 1 il sell u mine for a Ł1
or if you still want 1 il sell u mine for a Ł1
26-02-2007, 05:52 AM
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think of the air flow u get under the bonnet when the car is actualy moving,not tied down with a big hair dryer pointing at it.... ...na each to their own....the noise for me
...na each to their own....the noise for me
26-02-2007, 07:45 AM
#10
Originally Posted by Dan
Originally Posted by Mike Rainbird
Originally Posted by col cos1
read my rolling road post mate,cone filters are shite,yeah they sound good but the heat they draw from turbo.......drops your power and makes your intercooler work twice as hard,my car made 354 with cone in place and 373 with the jubilee loosened and pipe turned upwards out of the way of heat(just for the run obviously),im puting the airbox back in,sheilding it and adapting airflow............seriously dont do it with an induction kit
or if you still want 1 il sell u mine for a Ł1
or if you still want 1 il sell u mine for a Ł1
).
Originally Posted by pete mcrash
think of the air flow u get under the bonnet when the car is actualy moving,not tied down with a big hair dryer pointing at it.... ...na each to their own....the noise for me
...na each to their own....the noise for meYou can't physically stand up in front of it without LEANING FORWARD!
25Kw chanelled to the front of the car and enclosed so only the engine bay gets the airflow
.
This is as "real world" as you can get and is the best fan set up of any rolling road I have seen
.
26-02-2007, 02:39 PM
#14
I removed my pipercross filter and refitted my air box ducted from my headlight after seeing my inlet temps last time the car was on the rollers. Car is in for mapping justnow so will be able to compare inlet temps when i get my new graph.
26-02-2007, 04:56 PM
#15
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Originally Posted by Mike Rainbird
Originally Posted by Dan
Originally Posted by Mike Rainbird
Originally Posted by col cos1
read my rolling road post mate,cone filters are shite,yeah they sound good but the heat they draw from turbo.......drops your power and makes your intercooler work twice as hard,my car made 354 with cone in place and 373 with the jubilee loosened and pipe turned upwards out of the way of heat(just for the run obviously),im puting the airbox back in,sheilding it and adapting airflow............seriously dont do it with an induction kit
or if you still want 1 il sell u mine for a Ł1
or if you still want 1 il sell u mine for a Ł1
).
Originally Posted by pete mcrash
think of the air flow u get under the bonnet when the car is actualy moving,not tied down with a big hair dryer pointing at it.... ...na each to their own....the noise for me
...na each to their own....the noise for meYou can't physically stand up in front of it without LEANING FORWARD!
25Kw chanelled to the front of the car and enclosed so only the engine bay gets the airflow
.This is as "real world" as you can get and is the best fan set up of any rolling road I have seen
.Mke..how old is that pic?
A very young Colin and Alan in it
After ALOT of RR testing with my car on the rollers, if you are interested in power and not gay chirping noises then the airbox is THE only way...
As for heat sheilds making a difference, they have to be very well desinged to work.
As Mike mentioned i actually have my airbox protected from the heat as the sides used to melt when held flat fromjust radiant heat
I now have the proper intake hole for the airbox sealed up and have sealed feed from the back of the head light.
IMO an airbox is sooooo much better for 99% of cars on here.
Think about it boys....you spend all your hard earned cash to tune your car only to stick a cone filter on it and give your -30 bhp
26-02-2007, 06:11 PM
#21
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TF Rallyesport
I knew when i posted this up you would respond with that
I put grp A because thats what there known as and everyone knows exactly the type i mean
I knew when i posted this up you would respond with that
I put grp A because thats what there known as and everyone knows exactly the type i mean
......
26-02-2007, 06:32 PM
#23
Originally Posted by marco polo
hi peeps
i always been told that useing a cone fiter on track you dont get any problems with heat soak
may be when your car is staionary
Mike
do you use the air box ?
marco
i always been told that useing a cone fiter on track you dont get any problems with heat soak
may be when your car is staionary Mike
do you use the air box ?
marco
Perhaps you should put a temperature sensor in your engine bay and see the reality
. I have one in my airbox to see what temps are entering the engine, and I will be covering the base of it with reflective material like on Tim's rally car .I have ONLY ever used an airbox
.
27-02-2007, 08:11 AM
#27
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Originally Posted by Mike Rainbird
Originally Posted by marco polo
hi peeps
i always been told that useing a cone fiter on track you dont get any problems with heat soak may be when your car is staionary
Mike
do you use the air box ?
marco
i always been told that useing a cone fiter on track you dont get any problems with heat soak
may be when your car is staionary Mike
do you use the air box ?
marco
Perhaps you should put a temperature sensor in your engine bay and see the reality
. I have one in my airbox to see what temps are entering the engine, and I will be covering the base of it with reflective material like on Tim's rally car .I have ONLY ever used an airbox
. Going to use the reflective tap on my airbox! 
Every little helps!
27-02-2007, 08:44 AM
#28
saff is working!!!...atm
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would love to see two dyno charts...same car...same day, air box then swapped for cone fillter....just to see if it does make all that difference....
27-02-2007, 08:50 AM
#29
Originally Posted by pete mcrash
would love to see two dyno charts...same car...same day, air box then swapped for cone fillter....just to see if it does make all that difference....
He just posted up the differences at the beginning of this thread . THIRD POST DOWN - BACK TO BACK results (however, he rotated cone filter to ge it out of hot engine bay) . Same difference though....
27-02-2007, 09:00 AM
#31
Originally Posted by pete mcrash
not its fookin' not....u spazzmo...AIRBOX i said u divvy...bonnet closed....fuck nut....
. Hence why he is being advised to get an airbox . The airbox will have the same effect of stopping the engine from sucking in hot air as sticking the cone filter out of the engine bay . However, as you like your cone so much, you could always cut a hole in the bonnet and have it poking out the top .
27-02-2007, 09:09 AM
#32
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What about doing what Martin has done on his, mine and Warren Kellys car and mounted the cone down through the inner wing mike? whats your opinion on that?
This was how it was done on old car. Its done with much thicker Samco hoses now on the three cars.
This was how it was done on old car. Its done with much thicker Samco hoses now on the three cars.
27-02-2007, 09:12 AM
#34
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Basically, for any road car, it makes as near as fuck all difference.
I would love to know exactly what difference in power you'd see with air being sucked into a turbo, accelerated to Mach whatever it is, jammed through an intercooler, and consumed by an engine, with a few degrees of turbo inlet temp variation.
........ and no, I don't mean sitting stationary on the rollers, as no matter how good the fan, you'll never create the same type of airflow.
I would love to know exactly what difference in power you'd see with air being sucked into a turbo, accelerated to Mach whatever it is, jammed through an intercooler, and consumed by an engine, with a few degrees of turbo inlet temp variation.
........ and no, I don't mean sitting stationary on the rollers, as no matter how good the fan, you'll never create the same type of airflow.
27-02-2007, 09:25 AM
#36
Lee,
I would only relocate the filter there on a dedicated track car. The reason being that a road car runs the risk of sucking up all the shit and mud that you get with driving on our roads, which would mean that regular (MONTHLY!) cleaning would be an absolute must.
Rich / Peter,
Think what you like, and for a road car, I tend to agree, as the odd squirt on the throttle is not going to develop engine bay temps high enough to worry about. However, dedicated track users or top speed cars, you're talking a totally different kettle of tuna, and it would make a big difference (and is probably why Pete's car won't go above a GPS confirmed 147mph ). Personally I'd rather have what is proven to work. Just look at Tim Finch's car, and you will see the lengths rally teams go to to ensure the air going into the engine is cold .
I would only relocate the filter there on a dedicated track car. The reason being that a road car runs the risk of sucking up all the shit and mud that you get with driving on our roads, which would mean that regular (MONTHLY!) cleaning would be an absolute must.
Rich / Peter,
Think what you like, and for a road car, I tend to agree, as the odd squirt on the throttle is not going to develop engine bay temps high enough to worry about. However, dedicated track users or top speed cars, you're talking a totally different kettle of tuna, and it would make a big difference (and is probably why Pete's car won't go above a GPS confirmed 147mph
). Personally I'd rather have what is proven to work. Just look at Tim Finch's car, and you will see the lengths rally teams go to to ensure the air going into the engine is cold .
27-02-2007, 09:35 AM
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i have to admit the airbox does seem to have given the car summat extra..... i took it for a proper blast yesterday (the roads were dry and not too cold so had loads of grip 
) and it seemed more responsive and felt like torque had improved....although until i have it remapped and roller'd i won't know for sure
) and it seemed more responsive and felt like torque had improved....although until i have it remapped and roller'd i won't know for sure
27-02-2007, 09:38 AM
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Come on Mike.
You know full well rally cars keep the airbox for a multitude of other reasons including the fact that airboxes will do a far better job of filtration on the surfaces on which rally cars drive, especially as far as water and dust is concerned.
Not many road-going Cosworths drive through a water splash at 50mph+ either is there?
For a road car IMO, if you claim there to be some miniscule drop in power, it's worth that almost invisible sacrifice, purely for ease of use and convenience..... especially on a track car!
You know full well rally cars keep the airbox for a multitude of other reasons including the fact that airboxes will do a far better job of filtration on the surfaces on which rally cars drive, especially as far as water and dust is concerned.
Not many road-going Cosworths drive through a water splash at 50mph+ either is there?
For a road car IMO, if you claim there to be some miniscule drop in power, it's worth that almost invisible sacrifice, purely for ease of use and convenience..... especially on a track car!
27-02-2007, 09:51 AM
#40
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mike....u've hurt my feelings..... 
...now im going to have to go out on the a1...flat out...soft rev limit 7200rpm...keep pushing....take a photo and try not to CRASH just cos U have made me feel small....it'll be ur falt when the 
..........
...now im going to have to go out on the a1...flat out...soft rev limit 7200rpm...keep pushing....take a photo and try not to CRASH just cos U have made me feel small....it'll be ur falt when the ..........