Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Is that the best you've got? . EVEN Simon has better comebacks than you .

ballin

iTrader: (1)

89XR2
I sold it on ebay around November last year I think it was! Currently have a boring car (house purchase) so i like to reminise!

Dont suppose you have a link to it do you, cant find it on there now, unless its been removed

The Sludge

Thanks Mike

Stavros

Just a little thing to add, to be picky.

Technically, when in use, it does totally change the boost threshold, as with the ALS working well you can get the turbo spooling regardless of throttle or rpm, and in that situation you can plant it at lower rpm and be on boost.

Ie if you normally got nothing till 4.5k, but your ALS gives you 25psi off throttle, you wont suddenly lose all boost/power if the rpm happens to be 3.5k when you go back on it.

Its not magic, but it does do that.

But thats of secondary and VERY minor importance.

Ps- If you want to see the instant throttle response i mention earlier thats flatly impossible normally, regardless of turbo used, watch this vid at about the 20min mark where you can watch the boost gauge easily...
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...&q=rs+cosworth

Mr Brannen

Oh AJ I think you may have just won quote of the year already there mate,fuckin quality

Physio

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

That effect is ONLY in-between gears though. You won't feel this effect away from the start line....

Stavros

Rev it up a little to activate it and you will. Used to do that at Santapod, but then you get 23psi easy without moving, and then, umm, wheelspin even with a 3rd gear launch as i had such gay grip

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Well you must have had the magic version, because as soon as you get on full throttle, mine switches the ALS off, so the boost threshold stays where it is from stand-still . Perhaps you were just launching it at 5000rpm ?

Deano

Steve , didnt you have FULL anti lag on your car ? proper valve not a modded one etc

And can someone explain the differences in performance between mild and wild anti lag ?

GARETH T

the wild one produces more off-load boost than a mild one! its not all about the valve though it does need to be calibrated for the different valves

ian sibbert

Menu : Standard Mapping
Group : BASE CALIBRATION 2 ->
Group : ALS CALIBRATION 2 ->
Map : ALS Fuel Cut (%)
Columns: Engine Speed (RPM)
Rows : Throttle Angle (ř)

600 1000 1250 1500 2000 2500 3000 3500 4000 4500 5000 5500 6000 6500 7000 7500
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
50.0| 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
35.0| 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
20.0| 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
15.0| 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
10.0| 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
8.0| 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
6.0| 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
4.0| 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 90.0 65.0 65.0 65.0 65.0 65.0 65.0 65.0 65.0 65.0 65.0 65.0

Menu : Standard Mapping
Group : BASE CALIBRATION 2 ->
Group : ALS CALIBRATION 2 ->
Map : ALS Ignition Angle (ř)
Columns: Engine Speed (RPM)
Rows : Throttle Angle (ř)

600 1000 1250 1500 2000 2500 3000 3500 4000 4500 5000 5500 6000 6500 7000 7500
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
50.0| 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
35.0| 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
20.0| 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
15.0| 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
10.0| 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
8.0| 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
6.0| 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
4.0| 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 65.0 60.0 55.0 35.0 35.0 35.0 35.0 35.0 35.0 35.0 35.0 35.0

Menu : Standard Mapping
Group : BASE CALIBRATION 2 ->
Group : ALS CALIBRATION 2 ->
Map : Recovery Fuel Cut (%)
Columns: Engine Speed (RPM)
Rows : Throttle Angle (ř)

600 1000 1250 1500 2000 2500 3000 3500 4000 4500 5000 5500 6000 6500 7000 7500
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
50.0| 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
35.0| 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
20.0| 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
15.0| 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
10.0| 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
8.0| 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
6.0| 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
4.0| 0.0 0.0 0.0 90.0 90.0 90.0 90.0 90.0 90.0 90.0 90.0 90.0 90.0 90.0 90.0 90.0

Menu : Standard Mapping
Group : BASE CALIBRATION 2 ->
Group : ALS CALIBRATION 2 ->
Map : Recovery Ignition Angle (ř)
Columns: Engine Speed (RPM)
Rows : Throttle Angle (ř)

600 1000 1250 1500 2000 2500 3000 3500 4000 4500 5000 5500 6000 6500 7000 7500
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
50.0| 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
35.0| 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
20.0| 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
15.0| 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
10.0| 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
8.0| 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
6.0| 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
4.0| 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0

Menu : Standard Mapping
Group : BASE CALIBRATION 2 ->
Group : ALS CALIBRATION 2 ->
Map : ALS Valve Duty 2 (%)
Columns: Engine Speed (RPM)

1000 1500 2000 2500 3000 3500 4000 4500 5000 5500 6000 6500 7000 7500 8000 8500 9000
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
90 90 90 90 90 90 90 90 90 90 90 90 90 90 90 90 90

I aint no mapping guru but all the action seems to be taking place at 4 degree throttle posion....i.e. off throttle...sorry Steve....lol

Stavros

Im not launching it at 1000rpm am i you goon

But the difference between launching it at i dunno, 3k, 4k, 5k, whatever, with ALS off, and ALS on, is massive.

But if you using ALS for launching, you a spacca, as launch control would do the same thing for about 10% of the price, and more consistant too.

ALS isnt for noise, or for launching, its for twistywistywisty on off throttle driving.

Amen

GARETH T

thats what i like to see ian,,,, 90% duty

what ians trying to show is that ALS isnt on anything above 4% throttle angle

Deano

There will so many tech minded people loving that post by Ian


















Sadly I am not tech minded so he might aswell have posted it in Kurdish

dumped

Something does not add up because as soon as you go to launch it you will be opening the throttle and the engine will have to operate as normal to produce any power - normal timing/fueling. Even is the turbo was on boost before this through magic als it now must be controled by what ever hp of exhaust gas is now going through it at that RPM - if you are off boost you are off boost surely? eg 3000 rpm on a T34 = not too much power/boost.

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

We've all just said that you slow arsed Weegie .

dumped

I was filling in the gaps in thinking lol I also have NO experience of ALS so was thinking aloud - surely this is allowed on a "forum" ...............lol

Stavros

By all your calculations that just cause the ALS turns off it will have no effect the moment its "off", Launch Control (or 2step, whatever you want to call it) like all turbo drag cars run, dont do anything either

Might not work in your head, but in the real world it does.

Go try it, Launch Control, ALS, whatever the hell you like.

Say i dunno, launching at 4000rpm with them both on, revving up and letting off the gas with the ALS to get it running some boost, and the same effect with just accel open when using the Launch control.

See how it launches and boosts.

Then do the same without ALS or Launch Control while launching at 4000rpm.

I rest my case.

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

At 4000 rpm, you'd even be in the boost threshold of a T4 .

Try launching with the ALS on, and outside the boost threshold, it makes no difference . As soon as you go full throttle, you loose all the inertia gained from blipping the throttle and it just reverts to normal spooling up...

dumped

yeah but at 4000 rpm you probably are in the "boost threshold" for said car - so you dont have the time for the turbo to spin up to its exhaust limit - hence the anti lag working - making a difference?

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Not by Weegies .

dumped

penis bird man lol

Stavros

If that was true just revving the car up, ALS on or off, would have the same effect when launching, and its not, not by a long shot.

And 4k was just an example, but obviously the higher the RPM the better, depending on how effective your ALS was.

Either way, thats not what ALS is for, so who cares.

foreigneRS

you cannot say that just because during normal driving the boost threshold of a certain turbo is x rpm, that it is the same with ALS

it is completely different as you have the ignition timing and fuelling set to give way more energy into the exhaust gases to drive the exhaust wheel instead of driving the piston down

Mark_1

Bingo!

K500BHP

all i know is i got let loose in frostys off here and when i got back to his garage i was shaking and they made me a cuppa to calm down his was mapped at stu's and all i can say was when i swiched the anti lag on for a quick blast then started again it was holding 30 psi to launch on and it was like somone put a rocket up my arse and after that i turned it off and went back to the garage at normal speed

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Nick,
You're missing the point I was trying to make, so I will try and clarify. In between the gears, it DOES change things, as the second you come off the throttle, it provides the energy that you mention to keep the turbo spinning, so as soon as you come back on the thottle, the boost is there. BUT for this to feel like the kick you're expecting, it HAS to be in the boost threshold and then there is nothing like it, it feels like a car fitted with a T2 .

HOWEVER, if you come off the throttle for too long and even with the ALS still activated (and as long as that "off throttle" time isn't longer than the 10s switch-off time), and the revs drop to the point below the boost threshold, when you come back on the throttle, the inertia given by the ALS is not enough to change the boost threshold and as soon as you go beyond the 4° throttle angle, the ALS switches off and the spool up is TOTALLY reliant on the normal exhaust gas energy from the engine. That means that if the turbo is outside it's boost threshold, the turbo will take just as long to go from off boost to on boost, as soon as you come back on the throttle. ALS will only keep the turbo spinning sufficiently so there is no boost drop off IF when you come back on the throttle, the turbo is WITHIN it's boost threshold, as then the engine has enough gas energy to take over the spooling of the turbo from the ALS when it is in the threshold, but NOT when it is not.

I must confess that until I had ALS fitted to my car, I thought the same as everyone else, that it was the miracle cure and changed the boost threshold point, but alas it does not, it just keeps everything going when it IS in the threshold.

foreigneRS

Mike Rainbird well clarified, thanks

dumped

Actually i fibbed when i said i had absolutely no experience - I forgot about the "limiter run" as we like to call the trip between SCS and Norfolk in closed circles. The white escort i had that day had the ALS on the whole trip but you couldnt tell as it spent its whole time on the limiter - boost pot turned right round ...... cant remember whos that car was now - think we were delivering it for some fairy out in the sticks lol

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Oh yeah, the day you cracked the windscreen and pissed off the neighbours by nearly running them over .

MAD matt-sab

interesting thread and a good read "mainly"
Q....can anti-lag be used on the rollers/dyno to show the difference between it on and off ???? "als"
ie in the pick up and the power curve on the 2 graphs if over laid eack other ???
i think that would show how "usefull" it would be in the real world
maybe mike/secs may already have these,or done it,i dont know.

GARETH T

yes it can, dynodynamic RR's i know you can drive the car through a few gears! you could do it with it on and off and see the difference

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

CAN YOU TWO NOT READ!

When the throttle angle goes BEYOND 4°, the ALS switches OFF. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but the throttle required to load the rollers is the full range of opening, which would mean that the ALS would NOT be activated, other than when you changed gear and came off the throttle. All it would show is less of a drop off in power at the gear shift point and I certainly wouldn't want to be doing full throttle gearshifts on a rolling road . They normally shift up at 2-3000 part throttle to get it in the correct gear, so as not to get wheelspin in the lower gears, which is all you would do on a normal rolling road . Not very well thought through .

GARETH T

mike if you want to run through the gears on full throttle on a dyno,, you do a normal gearchange which means the throttle WILL go below 4%

GARETH T

i know this practice isnt normally done in the UK for cars, you see it alot for bikes though

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

I meant full throttle being used in the lower gears you numpty . Have you EVER seen a CAR rolling road operater accelerate full throttle through the gears? NO, thought not .

So EVEN if you could persaude someone to do that (and risk launching the car off the rollers ), all you would notice is less of a drop off in bewteen the shift "dips" on the graph. Nothing more than that .

GARETH T

yes ive seen someone do it,, its in the dynodynamics promotional video

and all matt asked was to see if the dyno could show the difference,,, and the correct answer to that is YES, as said by me

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

I disagree. All it would show is less of a dip in the shift points, it would not show anymore power BECAUSE ALS DOES NOT CHANGE THE BOOST THRESHOLD!!!!!

Show me the clip where they accelerate hard in first gear . It must be VERY well strapped down .

GARETH T

ive never said it would show more power,,,, jumping the gun a little there

and i also never said first gear