kev 3dr

iTrader: (1)

As above and how much are they ???


Cheers Kev

MAD EVO 4

Speak to Danny B

Mr RS500

iTrader: (6)

WHF is a chassie connector

Smit

iTrader: (5)

Not the underbody chassis rail bars which help the shell strength?

Might be well off though...

Martin-Hadland

iTrader: (2)

call danny b or the local scaffolding company!

Mr RS500

iTrader: (6)

So,,WFT are they then ??? never heard of them

kev 3dr

iTrader: (1)

They tie the front chassis legs to the rears making the hole shell stiffer with out going the roll cage route and as Martin said basically a glorified scaffold tube !

They are very popular on US muscle cars, both my Dad on his 68 mustang and my Brother on his 67 Barracuda have them fitted to there cars.

Martin-Hadland

iTrader: (2)

Two tubes that join the rear outer beam location to the front (arb area??)

The Youth.

iTrader: (1)

paul there are called chassis correctors Rod T and mike r have them fitted Rod did a thread some time ago with pictures of them fitted to the car, basicly they reduce chassis flexing in the places you don't want flexing!!!!

steve

Mr RS500

iTrader: (6)

Sorry but the shell on most cars is meant to flex , adding bars will stop this and wont this cause problems ???

American cars have a seperate chassie and body tho so a totaly differant thing to a cossie shell

Rally cars dont use this system , neither do modern touring cars , OR DO THEY ???

MAD EVO 4

the bars work there best if the car does not have an roll cage fitted

Mike1

Think Eagle had them fitted to his Sapphire?

MAD EVO 4

yes he did

kev 3dr

iTrader: (1)

Competion vehicles have full roll cages limking all major components to make the shell as rigid as possible so not requiring frame connectors

foreigneRS

is it bollocks. why do manufacturers constantly strive to increase the rigidity of their bodyshells then? it's to give the best platform from which the suspension can operate. certain areas of the structure are designed to deform in a controlled way in a crash, but they are usually not part of the main structure (known as crumple zones)

really? we're talking about passenger cars here, not SUV's that are made that way to get around the tax laws and classed as trucks

no. as said, they use a roll cage for the same purpose.

Mr RS500

iTrader: (6)

I think you will find that the american cars that have been mentioned have a seperate chassie

Who mentioned SUV"s etc

And here was i thinking that roll cages were just for safety reasons

And i also think you will find that if bodyshells were not designed to flex , they would crack under stress and fall apart , manufacturers spend milions developing shells that yat very strong also flex quite a lot

foreigneRS

really? you must educate me further. my understanding of fatigue is very limited

kev 3dr

iTrader: (1)

I think you will find that the american cars that have been mentioned have a seperate chassie



HMMMMM no they dont !!!!!!

Like I said before my Dad has got a 68 Mustang and my brother has a 67 Barracuda

And neither of them have a seperate chassis !!!!!!!

kev 3dr

iTrader: (1)

Oh and they are both about 60 feet away from me in there garages with the mustang being upside down on a rotissery !!!!

richard_syko

Were the GRP A RS500`s not doubled skined in areas?

Mr RS500

iTrader: (6)

no need to educate you mate as you obviously know everything

and if you look at all my quotes they have question marks as i was interested in these bars but wasnt realy shure of the benifits as i only have 15 years in the motor trade inc 10 years in vehicle manufacturing industry

Thanks for you help in putting all the chassie issues 100% acurate for me

Mr RS500

iTrader: (6)

Sorry mate , Wrong again ,,I thought that most american cars of that year had a seperate chassie ,, I watch to much american hot rod etc

I watch these programmes and see them lifting the bodywork off most chassies , but not these two tho

foreigneRS

good come back

kev 3dr

iTrader: (1)

Most of them will be either pre 64 if Ford or Mopar and around about pre68-69 if it was Chevy. I think thats roughly right anyway

Tony Ryan

read into it what you will , the cage in the modern era of touring cars is referred to as the 5th spring , a lot of R& D goes into allowing the car to perform in a controlled way , flex is inevtiable , reading it and compensating for it is a huge science .

RichardPON

Although my understanding of this stuff is very limited, I didn't think flex was a good thing on circuit.

On set of slicks on my standard road car and much track action DID lead to a cracked bodyshell.

Mr RS500

iTrader: (6)

Thanks for that mate Its good to learn

richard_syko

It needs to be stiff in the right places. Ideally all the suspension mounts wouldnt move relative to each other.

Thats how race car chassis are rated, in torsional stiffness.

This way the suspension does its job properly keeping correct wheel geometry.

Mr RS500

iTrader: (6)

Please correct me if im wrong , but not alowing a shell to flex would then be just as bad as setting your suspension on the hardest setting

And i read on here so many times that the stiffer the suspension is not the best way and only way to get a car to perform the best ,( i will say that IMO this is 100% correct )

kev 3dr

iTrader: (1)

Ive been brought up around Fast Fords and Yank muscle cars so if I didnt have my 3dr id have some form of muscle car but might be gready and have both within a year or 2

RichardPON

Agreed, but if the shock absorber is designed to act in one plane only, then why would you want it to move side to side for example?

I'm talking about on track here only - I appreciate the suppleness of a chassis to absorb variable surfaces.

Mr RS500

iTrader: (6)

I have a serious love for american cars ,,mk1 camaro"s etc

I would swap my 500"s for a mint example

Mr RS500

iTrader: (6)

Richard

Problem is you cant just quote " the track" we are talking about flex in all forms of motorsport , and track cars must also flex along with road cars and 100% motorsport cars

richard_syko

Road cars need to flex. There not on the ideal surface like a race track. And they have to last a long time unlike a rally car.

Why would race cars have strut braces etc. (and not the shiny ally ones )

For years all race car chassis had two targets, as light as possible and stiff as possible.

Suspension stiffness is different to chassis stiffness. If the springs are too hard they will stop the dampers from working, thus reducing the amount of contact the tyre has to the surface.

If the suspension is too hard the car would just bounce of small bumps in the surface.

kev 3dr

iTrader: (1)

I fancy a 2door Plymouth Valiant, Looks abit like a 2door mk2 cortina and turn it into a sort of track day car which as its a not a popular car would look kool !

Ps get yourself down to Santa Pod for the European Mopar Nats in july, 3 days of racing and nearly all muscle cars and hot rods !!

Mr RS500

iTrader: (6)

So your saying that all race cars allow for no flex at all ???

Did you not read Tony"s reply

richard_syko

Yes and he is right but, vehicle dynamics is a deep subject.

Modern touring cars are under powered (relatively) and FWD, so it has all sorts of design implications.

All cars need some flex even super stiff F1 tubs.

RichardPON

Paul - I was referring to cars that use a race circuit, not cars that race on other surfaces.

I would have thought you could have used a term like "the track", as aside from the weather and track temperature, not a lot changes at a set circuit from one day to the next, so why not consider the surface a constant?

Martin-Hadland

iTrader: (2)

I think that some chassis flex is desirable BUT too much is not and maybe the frame connectors get the Sierra shell back to the 'some' flex rather than too much?

Mr RS500

iTrader: (6)

To Be honest fellas we could talk about this all night , but as said Vehicle dynamics is a massive subject and i doubt we will sort all the issues tonight

Good topic tho ( if we had months to talk about it )

I would like to see these bars tho as i think they may be a good adittion to a rotting old ford shell