gingeRS

is there a way to test if this is faulty?

have just converted to stu's closed loop, but having a few niggles that need ironing out before i can enjoy decent fuel economy.

i tried adjusting the CO the other day and couldnt get it down enough (to 0.9% recomended) so stu suggested it may be a faulty lambda.

before i shell out yet more money buying parts(for the conversion thats sposed to save me money ), can someone tell me how i can test mine to see if its working?

i'm under the impression it hasnt been used since the car was chipped, as the previous chips didnt use it. just wanna make sure its that part, at fault, before i buy one and find it it was working fine

please help

coszee21

dnt expect any lamda sensors of the market to work mate the timing used doesnt work with the cossie engine timing my one all ways reads lean when the cars always rich u can check the wires leading to the engine bay underneath ur 3 bar map senson and check it sitting in there ok

other wise ur better of buyin an original or from fords cossie lamda sensor they are more reliable and better to use on cossies

coszee21

coszee21

check if the car is rich first thts an indication as well if the lamda says other wisse

if the cars lean and the sensor says other wise get it changed thts wut i did now the original ford lamda sensor never fails all ways tells the ryte one

trevCOSS

iTrader: (6)

yes there is a test, stick a volt meter on the signal wire and once its in closed loop you should start to see the voltage fluxuate between something like 0.4 and 0.7 volts, normally if they are knackered they show abou 0.1 volts all the time. you could also do this test with an osillascope but most people have access to a volt meter

gingeRS

wicked, have access to an oscilloscope, but cant be arsed to take it out to the car, voltmeter it is

which one is the signal wire? its a standard cossie lambda sensor

at least if i can prove its faulty i can then justify the cost of a new ford one

JTECH James

iTrader: (13)

what colours are on the sensor wiring...... im sure there are two power feeds for the heater element, iirc the signal is white

JTECH James

iTrader: (13)

and make sure the car is hot before you test it!

gingeRS

cheers guys

gonna be testing it over the next few days, had a good chat with Stu just a moment ago and he gave me a few pointers.

i WILL get this closed loop working if it kills me

cossie4i+

iTrader: (15)

How many miles will you have to drive to get your money back ?

I don't use mine enough to worry about it.

Steve.

gingeRS

well i did some quick calculations and worked out for every Ł50 i am spending on fuel i could be saving Ł25 of that back with closed loop

right then, to makie the money back from the chip i would need to fill up 10 times, which is approx 3000 miles.

so maybe 6 months ish.

have recently started driving the car to work too, so will be racking the miles up quicker from now on

Dave Henshall

pins 1 and 2 at the ecu,

here's a problem that had myself and stu stumped for a while... mine was running rich when the chip was fitted with the greens and 3 bar, the pectel monitor read the right voltage from the MAP, but it was still very rich - 1.2 volts from the lambda!! we tried everything, fuel pressure reg, , lambda, ecu, chip to no avail. then stu had an idea - he swapped the map sensor for a new one and hey presto it all worked spot on - but yet the spooky bit - hte pectel monitor read EXACTLY the same reading for the new MAP sensor as it did the old, but the old one was giving a slightly loaded engine reading and causing more fuel even at idle - strange but true and it s an easy one to swap if it is that

Wardy257

The landa gives out milivolts, make sure you set the scale correctly.

cossie4i+

iTrader: (15)

Do you think you will save that much fuel

Mines on Greens, T34 etc and get about 23mpg local driving and about 29-30mpg on a run.

Steve

gingeRS

well at the minute i see 206 miles to a tank (12 gallons) which is approx 18mpg

that was with the old chip fitted

gotta do better than that!

closed loop should see 30mpg round town and 35+ on a run

fingers crossed

gingeRS

gonna check the voltage output from the lambda today, he aslo said to remove it and shake it to see if it rattles, thats a sign of a faulty one.


so should i be looking for 0.3-0.7V or millivolts?

looks like this may take some time to fix

Dave Henshall

0.3-0.7 vdc or 300-700 milli volts DC = same thing.

it should scan quickly from one to the other if its working - BUT if its just very rich - it will read just over 1 volt (1000 mv) all the time, which was how we come to find it was the MAP sensor ; i'd already changed my lambda as it tested as faulty - but then so did the new one as soon as it was fitted - things started pointing to that it wasnt the lambda after all

gingeRS

so i have to choose to replace either one to find the fault.....such is life.

all i noticed was that when i tried adjusting the CO using the screw, i couldnt get it undereath 3% (on the gas analyser)

and the car isnt using any less fuel than it normally would even with the new closed loop chip fitted

worst case i will have ither a spare lambda or a spare map sensor

Dave Henshall

first job though, see what voltage you get from the lambda, at pins 1 and 2 on the ecu with it all plugged in and running.

if its saturated at the top >1v is probably the map sensor, if its not reading at all, its probably the lambda sensor

gingeRS

Right then, that’s what I’ll do at lunch….as the car is here at work with me.
Will report back with my findings after.

So there’s a strong chance the lambda could be working fine, and it’s the map sensor that’s richening up the mixture (even at idle with closed loop)

Dave are you running closed loop, if so what fuel economy do you get, looks like I am in for another 200 mile tankfull until I get this sorted

Dave Henshall

yep, im running one of stus closed loop chips, in my p8 with coilpack,

on a gentle motorway cruise, i can get as much as 34mpg, running greens .

the closed loop only works within certain parameters, as the map sensor giving a slightly elevated idle load made it jump outsie these paramters, its doesnt even try to compensate and just stays on its conventuional map.

gingeRS

is there a way of telling when its on closed loop or not.

i can only assume mine isnt as i tried unplugging the lambda sensor and the idle didnt alter in anyway? and also its using as much fuel as the old map

one thing that can be said is its a testiment to stu's mapping skills as, if i havent been using the closed loop map (due to the sensor issues) the car has been idling much happier than the old stage 3 chip that used to be installed

Dave Henshall

not without the RPlab software - or a external wideband sensor - like stus

gingeRS

its a shame i am so far from balckpool, as i would just take it there.

hopefully i will have it sorted by the weekend though

do any tuners down south have the RP labs software yet?

in london/hertfordshire area?

Dave Henshall

only troulb eis, you need the comms enableing for it on your chip aswell IIRC, (or that may just be for the P8 ..)

if the lambda software is working you will see the voltage across pins 1, 2 swapping rappidly hi/lo/hi/lo etc between the levels as above...

gingeRS

CONCLUSIVE PROOF I FEEL

just removed the lambda, looks knackered and i gave it a shake and it rattled like it was full of dust.

started the engine (still struggles to start grrrr) and removed the cover from the ecu plug.

from across pins 1 and 2 there was 5mV

can i assume this lambda is fooked then??

hopefully if i pick up a new one that'll solve it

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

They definately dont rattle when they are good.

The Serial comms is in all closed loop chips as standard nowadays.

CossieRich

iTrader: (1)

All this closed loop fuelling.

I have a Stu chip running my greys on a L6 with no closed loop obviously. Me and Mark saw 14.6:1 on the afr monitor whilst off boost cruising. Is there really ANY need to go closed loop if that is the results on a Non-closed loop fuelling setup?

gingeRS

perhaps not....for you

i can say that the mapping on my current chip (msd) is better than the old power engineering chip. and as it seems my lambda sensor is faulty, i am still returning slightly better fuel economy without the closed loop

it can only get better with.

some of these other chips on the market massively overfuel and people just expect it

Dave Henshall

gingeRS:

just had a thought, if you haven't yet got a new lambda probe sorted, i got mine from these guys,




Three Wire

Colour Connection
Black Ref. (out)
Red Ref. (in) and Heater (+)
White Heater (-)

part number : 11014T12

Universal Titania Sensor
Output 0 to 1 vdc

http://www.lambdasensor.com/main/mcolours1.htm

was about Ł70 IIRC and came pretty quick, its what im running now and mine was setup against stus calibrated wideband and using this probe we were spot on

Jay,

iTrader: (4)

sounds promissing that you have sorted this then ginge

can I just say that one of the reasons I went for a aftermarket ecu is to keep a eye on engine monitoring so when you have the cash buy the rp labs gear off of stu as it'll save so much time for repairs and diagnosis

gingeRS

cheers for that dave, after diagnosing it i went to call stu, but the phone was engaged.

so i had a quick look around on ebay and found them for sale from graham goode, genuine ford sapphire 4x4 lambda for Ł47 quid delivered

get some bargains on ebay some times



will fit it over the weekend and let you know if it works.

Dave Henshall

that IS a bargain :0 the genuine ones are very expensive aswell

foreigneRS

but your ecu does not have any feedback to make adjustments if something goes slightly out of tune (voltage, fuel pressure etc)

Dave Henshall

foreigneRS



cornholiobumhole - take me to your leader

foreigneRS

Dave Henshall it's bunghole

silky16v

iTrader: (1)

i know its ebay but cheapest place i've found them is
Genuine part aswell

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/V90HF9F472AA-C...QQcmdZViewItem

WD Pro

What are these like :

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BOSCH-UNIVERSA...QQcmdZViewItem

WD

gingeRS

thats where i got mine, there was 2 of them, hence why there is only 1 available now

its graham goode aswell so i dont have any doubts about the part, and postage should be swift. they sell loads of cossie stuff on ebay quite cheap

just waiting for it to arrive now

Dave Henshall

that says its a non heated one - the cossies have heated ones , you have to watch aswell, a lot of the cheaper ones are ziconia type sensors which give a 0-5 volt output, the titania ones only give 0-1 volts out (generally) and they are a lot tougher to withstand the exaust temperature as they are mounted in the turbo housing.

gingeRS

if you want it for a cossie buy that one on ebay (genuine ford one)

from fords they are 200 ish and even from stu they are 80+

i even considered buying 2 to keep one as a spare

but i'm too broke