high power on high C/R turbo engine
09-10-2006, 04:34 PM
#121
Originally Posted by SECS
CossieRich,
The reason Mark used your octane switch was to RETARD the ignition.
The delays the point of ignition. (moving it nearer TDC)
Mark did this as he is unable to map cossie ecu's as he doesnt have the
equipment to hand.
Not ideal as making those links retards the WHOLE map, killing power everywhere.
The reason Mark used your octane switch was to RETARD the ignition.
The delays the point of ignition. (moving it nearer TDC)
Mark did this as he is unable to map cossie ecu's as he doesnt have the
equipment to hand.
Not ideal as making those links retards the WHOLE map, killing power everywhere.
I understand about it killing power everywhere, but its really down to using a 3 bar map sensor isnt it. After 2 bar of boost the igntion curve stays the same due to the map sensor not being able to read any more boost. Its back now and its makes a difference
09-10-2006, 05:16 PM
#124
lol at mike , i think your losing it - you enjoy yourself pal 
just a quick question, how many of todays performance cars use 7.5 ish :1 compression, and im talking this century at least
even modified std internals 400hp + without the need for lower compression, im not dissing low comp at all , im sure its needed somewhere in a motorport region i dont frequent, just i still dont think that cosworth owners on the whole need to losing out so much,
just a quick question, how many of todays performance cars use 7.5 ish :1 compression, and im talking this century at least
even modified std internals 400hp + without the need for lower compression, im not dissing low comp at all , im sure its needed somewhere in a motorport region i dont frequent, just i still dont think that cosworth owners on the whole need to losing out so much,
09-10-2006, 09:16 PM
#125
DEYTUKURJERBS
Originally Posted by markk
how many of todays performance cars use 7.5 ish :1 compression
80s and early 90s there was plenty of std cars running comp in the 7s, but they wasnt even pushing 100bhp per litre and ran single figure boost levels.
Its a HUGE step from 90bhp per litre and 10psi to 200bhp per litre and 35psi...
Its not all about high comp, its not all about low comp, it all depends on overall spec.
Must admit tho, Mikes the only one to fully explain his reasons.
10-10-2006, 08:01 AM
#126
Originally Posted by Bosch-Man
Mike doesnt Tim and Markk use there cars hard then? 
Tim has T6 and a 36-1 pulley
.Mark's car doesn't go above 120mph very often due to his particular choice of motorsport (same with the rally-cross cars you keep quoting)
.Simon,
Whose engine are you referring to? Is it Nick's old one?
10-10-2006, 08:05 AM
#127
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Originally Posted by Mike Rainbird
Originally Posted by Bosch-Man
Mike doesnt Tim and Markk use there cars hard then?
Tim has T6 and a 36-1 pulley
.
10-10-2006, 11:21 AM
#131
Originally Posted by RWD_cossie_wil
sooooo, is it possible to get a reliable 500BHP with 8.5-1 using a p8 ECU? forged pistons/H section rods/Long studded block etc?
forged pistons/H section rods/Long studded block etc?
10-10-2006, 11:30 AM
#133
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Originally Posted by Mike Rainbird
Originally Posted by Bosch-Man
Mike doesnt Tim and Markk use there cars hard then?
Tim has T6 and a 36-1 pulley
.Mark's car doesn't go above 120mph very often due to his particular choice of motorsport (same with the rally-cross cars you keep quoting)
.Simon,
Whose engine are you referring to? Is it Nick's old one?
Mike,
Sorry but you have been fed duff information regarding pulleys and ecus.
Pulley teeth count/type and ecu type has fook all to do with the CR used
Weber ecu is accurate to 0.5 degrees at 6000 rpm
As a comparision my S8 is accurate to 0.1 degrees @ 10000 rpm.
Dont know about T6 but I suspect its similar to S8 as it uses same CPU's.
I can see what who ever told you that info is getting at but they are
very miss informed.
Sorry, Cant say who's engine it was at the moment but it was done at the ND Dyno.
I will ask permission of the owner to see if I can put more info up.
10-10-2006, 11:35 AM
#134
Advanced PassionFord User
So what do we think the theory of actually having high comp engines is then?
The last esc wrc has a higher comp than ever, but it ran a smaller exhaust than the grp'a' car? I cant comment on road or track cars as I dont really get involved with them but ford took some quite radical steps at this time and are still with the focus wrc.
The characteristics of these engines are to an extent more N/A than turbo'd, making them ultra responsive on the throttle and makes them majorly efficient.
Its a good debate but ultimately comes down what the engine is designed for....race...rally...sprint...road etc
The last esc wrc has a higher comp than ever, but it ran a smaller exhaust than the grp'a' car? I cant comment on road or track cars as I dont really get involved with them but ford took some quite radical steps at this time and are still with the focus wrc.
The characteristics of these engines are to an extent more N/A than turbo'd, making them ultra responsive on the throttle and makes them majorly efficient.
Its a good debate but ultimately comes down what the engine is designed for....race...rally...sprint...road etc
10-10-2006, 04:28 PM
#139
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Off boost?!?!?!? 
CHANGE GEAR 
If you want something thats really good off boost, don't buy a shit little 4 pot and strap on a BIG Turbo!!!
get a proper new Yank V8 or something! or a supercharged Viper engine!
CHANGE GEAR If you want something thats really good off boost, don't buy a shit little 4 pot and strap on a BIG Turbo!!!
get a proper new Yank V8 or something! or a supercharged Viper engine!
10-10-2006, 04:30 PM
#140
Originally Posted by Mike Rainbird
Originally Posted by RWD_cossie_wil
I want high comp as I want a nice drivable engine thats not 'orrible about town, but also a decent amount of power
and yes i have driven a "well specced low compression engine" before and to say i was so dissapointed i thought there was something wrong with it at first - was fookin shit to be blunt, and that was in the 7's
10-10-2006, 04:34 PM
#142
Originally Posted by Bosch-Man
Mike i drove your Escort and it was flat as a fart off boost compared to my 8-1 T4 engine!
Are you missing the point of owning a cosworth in the 1st place? You dont buy one for off boost driveability and off boost characteristics. You buy one because they are probably the most tuneable car out there pound for pound. Sod all this high comp nonsense. Big boost and raw torque is what cossies were made for. If i ever meet you, you are welcome to drive my 7.6:1 c/r t34 cosworth and see what you think. Significantly lower c/r than standard and by the looks of things MUCH lower c/r than you will ever want.
10-10-2006, 04:42 PM
#144
Rich and Porkie
I bought a Cosworth cause i love the simplicity and i can work on them DIY ..i have had 7-1 7.2-1 7.4-1 7.8.1 7.9-1 and 8-1 engines in various disguises....i only use as a road car...and i found with big BHP power comes in full at around 4k revs....and on the road you will be under 4k alot of the time....8-1 comp and you are sorted so nice to drive.....to be honest most only got t34's on so boost comes in at about 3k so maybe not so much an issue..but then you deffo mad goin lower than 8-1......the limit for std comp on pump fuel is 550bhp...superb road engine that...my t4 8-1 comp is my best engine it does what I WANT it to do
I bought a Cosworth cause i love the simplicity and i can work on them DIY
..i have had 7-1 7.2-1 7.4-1 7.8.1 7.9-1 and 8-1 engines in various disguises....i only use as a road car...and i found with big BHP power comes in full at around 4k revs....and on the road you will be under 4k alot of the time....8-1 comp and you are sorted so nice to drive.....to be honest most only got t34's on so boost comes in at about 3k so maybe not so much an issue..but then you deffo mad goin lower than 8-1......the limit for std comp on pump fuel is 550bhp...superb road engine that...my t4 8-1 comp is my best engine it does what I WANT it to do
10-10-2006, 04:47 PM
#148
Originally Posted by GARETH T
i dont see why people really wanna run high compression (over 8:1) on a big BHP YB
maye 10 years ago 8' s were high comp.
10-10-2006, 04:48 PM
#149
DEYTUKURJERBS
IMO phil, as none of your cars has ever had anything better than a off the shelf chip, and youve never had any of them on the rollers or performance tested to know the power, i dont see how you can say ones great and ones not.
How do you know the ones were mapped well enough to drive well? You dont, and they prob wernt.
IMO decent ign advance off boost will hide any lower comp anyhow.
What 2litre n/a engine is quick below 4k anyhow? Fucking none, and they run compression higher than even a rally cossie engine.
8:1 or 7:1 its still shite below 4k so who gives a fuck.
How do you know the ones were mapped well enough to drive well? You dont, and they prob wernt.
IMO decent ign advance off boost will hide any lower comp anyhow.
What 2litre n/a engine is quick below 4k anyhow? Fucking none, and they run compression higher than even a rally cossie engine.
8:1 or 7:1 its still shite below 4k so who gives a fuck.
10-10-2006, 04:51 PM
#150
Stavros.....if thats true how come i can tell such a vast difference between compressions? 
..Incidentally Rhys was a pro setup car on 7.4-1 and wernt nothing like my T4 8-1 engine on drivability
I TEST NOT DREAM mate
..Incidentally Rhys was a pro setup car on 7.4-1 and wernt nothing like my T4 8-1 engine on drivability I TEST NOT DREAM mate
10-10-2006, 04:51 PM
#151
DEYTUKURJERBS
Originally Posted by markk
Originally Posted by Stavros
so what compression would you run a 500bhp cossie on pump fuel on markk?
Typical of your usual warrior comment to a perfectly sensible question.
Not ONCE have you explained yourself, at least Mike has the info to backup his rants, you never have.
So if you not willing to back up what you say, why do you post? Pointless barring for your enjoyment of trying to give people jip.
10-10-2006, 04:54 PM
#152
..people really need to try other YB's instead of guess....you say all are shit below 4k...you are so wrong...try my 8-1 engine felt N/A below 4k..then try pulling out a junction with anything lower than 7.6-1 with a T4..its horredus...the reason why i went std/hi comp.
10-10-2006, 04:59 PM
#153
Originally Posted by Stavros
Originally Posted by markk
Originally Posted by Stavros
so what compression would you run a 500bhp cossie on pump fuel on markk?
Typical of your usual warrior comment to a perfectly sensible question.
Not ONCE have you explained yourself, at least Mike has the info to backup his rants, you never have.
So if you not willing to back up what you say, why do you post? Pointless barring for your enjoyment of trying to give people jip.
BORING !!! if i was to give you a spec for an engine you would only do as you always do , in your typical fashion of 'trying' to put people down, pretending that you know more than everyone else, when the truth be known what do you actually know ? you even had someone else build your engines anyway, and thats took what how many years, IF it was horsepower i wanted you dont think i would just build one ? , the differance between me and you pal, is i live in the real world, and have the ability to actually work with cars , where as you, the magazine world is just where you belong pal.
10-10-2006, 05:00 PM
#154
DEYTUKURJERBS
No, ALL 2litres, n/a or not are shit under 4k really.
My Cossie was never any worse at 7.5:1 at low rpm than my standard Mk2 mondeo is.
Perfectly tractable, but nothing youd call powerful.
Never tried GOOD low comp T4 engine, so cant comment on what they like, but im sure MANY can, so ook forward to hearing that.
The comment that you cant pull outof junctions properly suprises me TBH...
My Cossie was never any worse at 7.5:1 at low rpm than my standard Mk2 mondeo is.
Perfectly tractable, but nothing youd call powerful.
Never tried GOOD low comp T4 engine, so cant comment on what they like, but im sure MANY can, so ook forward to hearing that.
The comment that you cant pull outof junctions properly suprises me TBH...
10-10-2006, 05:02 PM
#155
Originally Posted by Bosch-Man
..people really need to try other YB's instead of guess....you say all are shit below 4k...you are so wrong...try my 8-1 engine felt N/A below 4k..then try pulling out a junction with anything lower than 7.6-1 with a T4..its horredus...the reason why i went std/hi comp.
phil some people do just that GUESS, and its because, typically of the internet, someone will have a 500hp engine of yesterday and say its the best thing since sliced bread, has no lag and drives great, when the truth is its the only spec of this hp they even driven so how can they compare ?
10-10-2006, 05:03 PM
#156
Professional Waffler
Originally Posted by markk
Originally Posted by GARETH T
i dont see why people really wanna run high compression (over 8:1) on a big BHP YB
maye 10 years ago 8' s were high comp. and yes i know its possible )
10-10-2006, 05:04 PM
#157
Originally Posted by GARETH T
Originally Posted by markk
Originally Posted by GARETH T
i dont see why people really wanna run high compression (over 8:1) on a big BHP YB
maye 10 years ago 8' s were high comp. and yes i know its possible )
10-10-2006, 05:08 PM
#159
DEYTUKURJERBS
WHEN have i put people down? Im asking a fucking question of your opinion, you just act like a dick as ever, YOU put people down.
Mike explained his reasons, seem valid, and itd be interesting to hear yours.
THATS why this thread is good, if everyone was like you this thread wouldve died ages ago.
I have little experience of high comp stuff, and im keen to know the reasonings for stuff.
I understand it on rally engines, and race fuel, but the reasons otherwise escape me.
Someone else built my engine, but I specced it from the ground up. Big fucking deal, wow your so fab as you got the time and equipment to get sannering and I havent, wow, im so sorry, your just fab.
I dont want power either, powers easy, its was the powerband and torque im going for.
And I do have the ability to work on cars, the SX has been 101% DIY, so that pisses on that one. I might not be the god of spanners like you make yourself out to be, but i dont claim to be.
Its soo difficult to restrain myself from being the abusive patronising cock you always are for no reason, as its soo easy to just give someone loads of abuse with no basis to it like you do, but id be as bad as you then...
Mike explained his reasons, seem valid, and itd be interesting to hear yours.
THATS why this thread is good, if everyone was like you this thread wouldve died ages ago.
I have little experience of high comp stuff, and im keen to know the reasonings for stuff.
I understand it on rally engines, and race fuel, but the reasons otherwise escape me.
Someone else built my engine, but I specced it from the ground up. Big fucking deal, wow your so fab as you got the time and equipment to get sannering and I havent, wow, im so sorry, your just fab.
I dont want power either, powers easy, its was the powerband and torque im going for.
And I do have the ability to work on cars, the SX has been 101% DIY, so that pisses on that one. I might not be the god of spanners like you make yourself out to be, but i dont claim to be.
Its soo difficult to restrain myself from being the abusive patronising cock you always are for no reason, as its soo easy to just give someone loads of abuse with no basis to it like you do, but id be as bad as you then...
10-10-2006, 05:10 PM
#160
Professional Waffler
markk
just one quick question,,,, if you was building a YB engine,, with standard engine geometry, (stroke and rod legnth) and a rs500 spec T4 turbo, bd14 cams,,, aiming for around 450-500 BHP,, what comperssion would you go for?
just one quick question,,,, if you was building a YB engine,, with standard engine geometry, (stroke and rod legnth) and a rs500 spec T4 turbo, bd14 cams,,, aiming for around 450-500 BHP,, what comperssion would you go for?