throttle bodies
#4
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Originally Posted by gus
what are the advantages then chip?
management should be up to it![Wink](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif)
management should be up to it
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Your plenum is already sat there full of boost even though your engine isnt yet using it, so when you open the throttle, its there straight away, where as obvioulsy at part throttle normally the plenum is only partially presurised.
What management do you have?
It needs either a scalable increase based on TPS (which something like megasquirt can do but L8 for example cant) or better still half a dozen maps like T6 that can be interpolated between, or finally i believe its possible to do with multiple map sensors (one per cylinder) if you have an ECU capable of treating each cylinder seperately (like T10) but i have NO experience of it done that last way.
#6
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Originally Posted by gus
i will be running a ecu called f88, its quite new apparently
think ite made by R.E.D could be wrong thou
i was gonna use t6 buy have been this was favored over it by engine builder/mapper
think ite made by R.E.D could be wrong thou
i was gonna use t6 buy have been this was favored over it by engine builder/mapper
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#8
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I had a long chat with Stu about this a few months ago - it can be done on some of the old Weber management and Pectel T6/T10.
With the Pectel i know you virtually have to map each cylinder - so expect the mapping bill to multiply...
With the Pectel i know you virtually have to map each cylinder - so expect the mapping bill to multiply...
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#11
DEYTUKURJERBS
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Can be done.
Pretty pointless tho IMO, lot of money for minimal effects, just slightly better throttle response, no more power over an unrestrictive single throttle.
Pretty pointless tho IMO, lot of money for minimal effects, just slightly better throttle response, no more power over an unrestrictive single throttle.
#12
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Just to clarify, doing it and getting your car to run aound acceptabley on it is pretty easy.
Doing it and really exploiting it to actually see any benefit from it is whats hard.
Hope that makes sense!
Doing it and really exploiting it to actually see any benefit from it is whats hard.
Hope that makes sense!
#14
DEYTUKURJERBS
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Individiual throttles are technically better than one.
But WHY fit it, surely your car is not perfection in every other way?
Surely you got better stuff to waste cash on?
Give me the money, ill use it
But WHY fit it, surely your car is not perfection in every other way?
Surely you got better stuff to waste cash on?
Give me the money, ill use it
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#15
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Originally Posted by gus
work involved is not important
to me as im not doing it
but
put it this way, which would you have if had the option?
to me as im not doing it
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but
put it this way, which would you have if had the option?
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Originally Posted by chip-3door
I would say it doesnt really change peak power, not from what ive seen anyway, its just better for throttle response.
Sounds great down the pub chatting about your car though![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
Sounds great down the pub chatting about your car though
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The one thing i'm surprised hasn't been brought up yet is ensuring a perfect 25% distribution to each body through the plenum and ensuring each cylinder gets the same AFR etc.
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#20
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the problem as i see it is we fit large turbos which kill responce
if we was building a high compression engine with small turbo, then go for throttle bodies
if we was building a high compression engine with small turbo, then go for throttle bodies
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#21
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Originally Posted by Big Will 85
Originally Posted by chip-3door
I would say it doesnt really change peak power, not from what ive seen anyway, its just better for throttle response.
Sounds great down the pub chatting about your car though![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
Sounds great down the pub chatting about your car though
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The one thing i'm surprised hasn't been brought up yet is ensuring a perfect 25% distribution to each body through the plenum and ensuring each cylinder gets the same AFR etc.
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Distribution issues are the same as with any cossie inlet manifold.
But yes, be careful of course!
Only one throttle is ever flowing at once, so you dont get to breathe down four, and if the TB was a restriction the answer would just be to fit a larger TB.
Once you have a TB the size of your pipework, its not a restriction anyway when fully open, think about it!
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An even 25% would only be seen on an N/A though surely.
A turbo would still need some type of plenum feeding it which would have different pressures. It would be better but not perfect. Thats why most are tapered. (Scandinavian/Norwegian not sure)
Not fact just a thought.
A turbo would still need some type of plenum feeding it which would have different pressures. It would be better but not perfect. Thats why most are tapered. (Scandinavian/Norwegian not sure)
Not fact just a thought.
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#23
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Originally Posted by chip-3door
Once you have a TB the size of your pipework, its not a restriction anyway when fully open, think about it!
Based on that theory then - would you say you needed to to increase the pipework diameter proportionally when going to 4 independent TB's as per the surface area thing i posted above?
Not trying to argue here mate - just curious and typing what i'm thinking
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#24
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Originally Posted by richard_syko
An even 25% would only be seen on an N/A though surely.
A turbo would still need some type of plenum feeding it which would have different pressures. It would be better but not perfect. Thats why most are tapered. (Scandinavian/Norwegian not sure)
Not fact just a thought.![Confused](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_confused.gif)
A turbo would still need some type of plenum feeding it which would have different pressures. It would be better but not perfect. Thats why most are tapered. (Scandinavian/Norwegian not sure)
Not fact just a thought.
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#25
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Originally Posted by Big Will 85
Originally Posted by chip-3door
Once you have a TB the size of your pipework, its not a restriction anyway when fully open, think about it!
Based on that theory then - would you say you needed to to increase the pipework diameter proportionally when going to 4 independent TB's as per the surface area thing i posted above?
Not trying to argue here mate - just curious and typing what i'm thinking
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Yes if you were in a situation where:
Your single TB was restricting the engine a LOT
You had small pipework.
Then once you removed that small single TB you might then benefit from larger pipework.
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I meant more theoretically.
Do the top UK cosworth tuners map cyclinders indvidualy? Theres a group of boys in uni looking into with pressure tranducers on a bike engine.
Do the top UK cosworth tuners map cyclinders indvidualy? Theres a group of boys in uni looking into with pressure tranducers on a bike engine.
#27
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well i got titan motorsport rollerbarrels and SECS S8 running a T35 - so i fookin hope it works lol?
F88 is used by Pat Doran in his fez rally cross car (full feature on the car in this months Fast Ford
)
F88 is an awsome bit of kit, multi maps and it also datalogs everything from steering angle to how hard you press the brakes/ gas!!
but it aint cheap
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F88 is used by Pat Doran in his fez rally cross car (full feature on the car in this months Fast Ford
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F88 is an awsome bit of kit, multi maps and it also datalogs everything from steering angle to how hard you press the brakes/ gas!!
but it aint cheap
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#28
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My CVH(Turbo) was running individual throttle boddies as will the ZT Turbo.
Throttle response was vastly improved. As mentioned above.
We also saw an increase in peak power(combination of TB's & Plemum).
Peak power was a little over 7200rpm with power curve not dropping off until around 8000rpm.
Downside was/is time involved mapping.
Throttle response was vastly improved. As mentioned above.
We also saw an increase in peak power(combination of TB's & Plemum).
Peak power was a little over 7200rpm with power curve not dropping off until around 8000rpm.
Downside was/is time involved mapping.
#30
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The F88 ECU is made by the electronices side of Advanced Engine Research in Basildon ( www.aerltd.com ) I used to work there last year as a machinist. The F88 is their own design and used n their Le mans engines. It will run TB's on a turbo as that is one of their engine designs.
Also the bloke who runs AER used to work for pectel
I believe Tommy at Field does a lot of work with / through AER.
Also the bloke who runs AER used to work for pectel
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#31
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I have a 600BHP plus Turbo cosworth on throttle bodies and Turbonetics T66 (maybe T61 cant remember )run by T6 2000 coming in next week so i'll post up some plenum shape pics for you .
#33
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Originally Posted by Tony Ryan
I have a 600BHP plus Turbo cosworth on throttle bodies and Turbonetics T66 (maybe T61 cant remember )run by T6 2000 coming in next week so i'll post up some plenum shape pics for you .
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#34
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Originally Posted by Andy_R
My CVH(Turbo) was running individual throttle boddies as will the ZT Turbo.
Throttle response was vastly improved. As mentioned above.
We also saw an increase in peak power(combination of TB's & Plemum).
Peak power was a little over 7200rpm with power curve not dropping off until around 8000rpm.
Downside was/is time involved mapping.
Throttle response was vastly improved. As mentioned above.
We also saw an increase in peak power(combination of TB's & Plemum).
Peak power was a little over 7200rpm with power curve not dropping off until around 8000rpm.
Downside was/is time involved mapping.
Andy, does your car use the throttle butterfly inside the throttle bodies, or, a single TB before the plenum?
I've seen both set ups and was just wondering.
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#39
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Originally Posted by Rab
Originally Posted by Andy_R
My CVH(Turbo) was running individual throttle boddies as will the ZT Turbo.
Throttle response was vastly improved. As mentioned above.
We also saw an increase in peak power(combination of TB's & Plemum).
Peak power was a little over 7200rpm with power curve not dropping off until around 8000rpm.
Downside was/is time involved mapping.
Throttle response was vastly improved. As mentioned above.
We also saw an increase in peak power(combination of TB's & Plemum).
Peak power was a little over 7200rpm with power curve not dropping off until around 8000rpm.
Downside was/is time involved mapping.
Andy, does your car use the throttle butterfly inside the throttle bodies, or, a single TB before the plenum?
I've seen both set ups and was just wondering.
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