xr2i-carl

seriously considerin this conversion for my FRST, i currently have a hybrid t25 turbo, will this turbo be suitable for the 2.0 zetec?

earlier ones came with DOHC on the cam cover and the later ones zetec.. which one is the best one to use for this conversion and roughly how much do you think it will cost me if i did it myself

woudl want

decent cams ( kent, newman maybe??)

forged pistons

lightened and balanced (obvsiously send off parts for this, but roughly how much??)

also woudl i need new valves etc, i know the followers and stem seals woudl need replacing but would the valves need doing also??

if there is anything i have forgotten about a conversion like this please remind me



thanks

carl

Anonymous

If you are using that little turbo i cant see you needing worry much about ligtening and balancing as you wont be revving the engine hard anyway.

xr2i-carl

why wouldnt i be revving hard chip?
i will rev till peak power which maybe 6500rpm??? or whatever it turns out to be?!

a t3 conversion may come up in the future when this one packs up

Anonymous

you wouldnt be revving hard because the turbo just wouldnt be able to make any meanginful boost at high rpm

What is your total budget for the conversion?

bassboy

go for a T3 as a T25 will run out of puff VERY quickly and with the torque of the 2L you will not really feel any lag with the T3 on the car...and if you want most power...a Stage 3 T3 with a .63 exh housing and the car will be MAD quick!!!

to be honest it wont matter which zetec engine you go for (i have gone for the silver top) as you wont be producing MAD power where it might become beneficial to have the black top or even a ST170 engine!

before you think about the parts list....what power are you looking for and howmuch are you looking to spend?

bassboy

xr2i-carl

power wise i dont want to be greedy, 230-250bhp will do nicely and i have read to make this power the zetec dosent need silly boost!!!

it would be more of a on-going project really


regarding price i could pick up the engine for £100

pistons i would imagine £300????????????

lightenign and balancing idont know how much?????


same with cams really!!!

what do you guys rekon?

Big Will_

Forged pistons aren't an issue in the 2.0 Blacktops mate - the pistons in there are Mahles and will do 300.

Its the rods you need to address - you can get Eagle rods from ebay imported for around £500.

shane

Id be interested in knowing whats needed to as im thinkin of a zetec or ZVH Turbo for my s2 when its done!

What work would be needed fo 280ish bhp?

bassboy

For that power, standard head, you can run a de-comp plate or skimmed pistons, or the better way is low compression pistons, either aftermarket or Calibra turbo pistons, a decent FMIC, OFAB management, good injectors, decent MAP, uprated fuel pump and a T3 turbo...... from the top of my head your there!

expect to pay around £1500 for everything...and dont forget new oil pump and water pump, timing belt kit etc etc

bassboy

Anonymous

you havent including any costs for manifold or for management in that mate.

bassboy

280...depends if your going ZVH or full 16v....if full zetec then the same as above using RS1800 inlet manifold and ERST exhaust manifold with a T3 and low comp pistons

but if ZVH, then stage 3 head needs to be added as well as cams!

bassboy

bassboy

chip...at that level, RS1800 inlet manifold and ERST exhaust manifold is fine

bassboy

MOONDUST FRST

Had focus rs rods and pistons in mine
also with an adaptor plate you can use the frst inlet manifold stuff

Garage19

With the correct turbo, charge cooling and management 280bhp can be had from a health zetec with no other mods than a thick head gasket.

If you only want 230bhp, i wouldn't bother thinking about changing the internals. Its a waste of money at that stage.

Stick with a healthy stock bottom end and spend the extra money on some mappable engine management. That way you can get the best out of your current set up and it is there for that monster power lump you may build in the future.

xr2i-carl

ITS on a FRST, wont the standard managment be up to the job? the 195 chip and beiges?


skimmed pistons are bollox, cracked shit loads on my zvh.

how can you define black top from silver top? every zetec i have seen has a silver cam cover??!!!

surely for what im after just lightening the standard rods woudl be enuff??

i woudlnt really want to risk standard pistons in there tho


carl

bassboy

believe it or not standard pistons should be ok with SPOT on mapping and LOW ACT's! the 195 chip wont be good enough as the management will need to be maped up for the 16v turbo as the fuel supply will be different as the air will be consumed in a different way....the amount of air one engine draws in air is completly different to howmuch another one does, hence the fuelling needs to be adjusted to suit

black top will have a black cam cover and normally comes in the later zetecs and known as a Series 3 engine...the water pump drive is slightly different to the series one and 2

if i were you and you want to play it extra safe, source a set of calibra turbo pistons for a CR of around 7.8:1 IIRC...could be mistaken

bassboy

xr2i-carl

whats IIRC?

are the calibra pistons forged??

so couldnt leave my standard managment and get it set up correctly would need different definately?

bassboy

IIRC - if i remember correctly

yes mate they are forged MAHLE pistons will EASILY take 300hp if not more!

u can leave your standard managament in but you just need to get it mapped by Stu at MSD or AHmed at Grove Garage

bassboy

xr2i-carl

are the calibra ones expensive?

bassboy

not really mate...you need you rods to be machined to suit the calibra pistons but its not a big deal...i think its just a matter getting hold of a set mate as they might be a bit rare

bassboy

Garage19

No! Its a totally different engine / specification.

Don't skim the pistons then! 2ltr pistons only have a 7mm ish crown. If you take the meat you will need off a cast zetec piston the crown will become very thin and will fail.

Use a thicker HG to achive the lower CR.

Then you haven't seen a later zetec engine yet!

If you are going to go with forged pistons you will find that the best ones have a fully floating gudgeon pin and will require different rods anyway.

I wouldn't touch the rods unless you are confident you know what you are doing when it comes identifying stress raisers and radiusing to remove them.

As said before, with the correct ign timing and fueling cast pistons will be fine upto at least 250bhp.

However if you decide to run any old chip, designed for a CVH you probably will melt something!

xr2i-carl

garage19 whats HG? and how will that lower the compression ratio?

i have 195 chip at the mo with a 1.8 zvh conversion and it has not posed any problems?!

i have cracked many pistons tho (standard cast and skimmed) NOT WHAT I SPECIFIED when engine was built, but they fitted them anyway!! and they now keep failing

crack like a bitch

xr2i-carl

what managemtn at what price?

Anonymous

HG = head gasket

reality

I think you'll find your two statements are strangely interlinked

BlueSmoke

Unless you really want to do a project then I'd say you'd be better getting a Cossie mate. It'll end up costing you similar money. If you can insure the FRST with the Zetec Turbo engine then I'd hazard a guess at you being ok with a Cossie.

As I say though, if you really wanna do a project then fair enough and best of luck.

I think there's info on www.turbo.me.uk about doing the ZT.

luke89

iTrader: (1)

im going for 215 on a dep-comp plate t3 custom inlet with ITBS mega squirt and erst manifold frst flywheel and a erst fast road/ race clutch and erst box, mine u its going ina mk2 fez

reality

luke, why on earth would you want to do that for 215bhp?.. any of the standard zetec intakes will do over 300bhp.. megasquirt isn't capable of properly managing a turbo engine on multiple throttles..

luke89

iTrader: (1)

well the big thing was i sold my normal inlet the day before as i had a N/A tb'ed engine and drove it twice before desiding to make a zt, i come across as custom inlet very cheap and when i went it pick it up it also seemed to be ITBs lol and i have been told mega squirt will be fine to map my car on

reality

Well Luke.. whoever told you that is wrong.. the only way you could reasonably-accurately do a turbo car on ITB's in Megasquirt is by using a MAF..

luke89

iTrader: (1)

why is that then, surly it almost the same as runing ITB's on a N/A car just chaging the fuel acordingly for the boost

reality

No, it's nothing like that at all. Are you sure this manifold you've aquired is actually ITB's and doesn't just have runners that look like them?

luke89

iTrader: (1)

right i have been told u are 100% wrong sorry mate just talked to a cople of people and it can

luke89

iTrader: (1)

and yes 100% ITB's and before anyone says the cant take it, they are welded inside the inlet pelenum tro stop the popin out lol , they will only be run at 15psi

reality

Luke.. you can talk to those people, no offence, but the people I talk to actually write the megasquirt code.. so go figure..

You can do alpha-n in megasquirt, for n/a applications.. you can also do speed pressure (map).. the problem is, the amount of air flowing into an engine when you're using throttle bodies is not directly relative to the amount of boost you see at the map sensor.. eg, you can have the throttle open at different amounts, see the same boost (so same location on the fuel/spark table) but with different airflow.. this is why ECU's such as Pectel have features like "Multi-map".. it's a complex and slow mapping process! Ask any skyline owner!!

I'm not trying to bullshit you, I'm trying to help you with the facts. I didn't just make it up.

edit: manifold looks cool though.. might be worth getting it flow checked before you run it on the car.. to ensure even distribution..

luke89

iTrader: (1)

it was run on a 2.1zvh that made over 300bhp so im confednt in it , my mapper alos said that u would say the same thing about people saying about need alpha , there is ways around this im just going my what my mapper has said and done for do u have msn so i can talk t u more about this with out killin this post , lukelavender @ hotmail.com ( wiht out spaces )

Fudgey

iTrader: (4)

my engine cost over £8k so far

and its still just a pile of bits on the floor

Fudgey

iTrader: (4)

i should also have said ill be running 400bhp as thats the limit of my turbo, but ALS will make up for that

engine will take more tho if i decide on a bigger turbo

reality

(note: before any megasquirt junkies totally get on the bandwagon, i am aware of speed density and hybrid alpha-n before you start )

xr2i-carl

reality... the pistons have posed problems, NOT the management